Trinket's first vet appt....concerned about panting

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Traci and Boomer

Traci and Boomer

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The vet appointment went okay with everything until I mentioned the open-mouthed breathing that I’ve seen. I told them she previously had an upper respiratory infection and that she only pants when I play with her with a wand. When she plays alone nothing happens. I think I work her harder. The vet said panting wasn’t normal. There didn’t seem to be any exceptions except that it may be her sniffing for scents or something. I got her a chest x-ray and it came back normal. She doesn’t have a heart murmur and her heart seems fine on the x-ray. The vet said I could bring her back to get the murmur checked again in a month. She also said if I could get her a cardiac workup. That would include a blood pressure, an ekg and an ultrasound. That’s over $500. My head is spinning and I’m trying not to freak out. She also said it could be nothing and I could wait. The ultrasound would be the most important test.

She seems perfectly fine. Energetic, eating, drinking, acting totally normal. What do you make of all this? Do you have any experience with this type of thing?
 
I am fostering a 9 month old kitten that gets that way when she plays too. She was checked for heart murmur and all and got clear bill of health. Could just be that kitty gets so excited about it and happy she looses breath... I have seen that happen
 
Byt2luv said:
I am fostering a 9 month old kitten that gets that way when she plays too. She was checked for heart murmur and all and got clear bill of health. Could just be that kitty gets so excited about it and happy she looses breath... I have seen that happen
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Thank you! To me that sounds reasonable. Why is it that lions and tigers can pant but if a house cat pants it's "not normal". It would seem like all living things would pant at one time or another if they were exercising extrememly hard and long..... nailbite_smile
 
Duvessa and Myrrdin both panted as kittens when they would get to chasing each other through the house, as they got older they slowly started panting less. but then again they don't play as hard as they did as kittens. Maxwell will pant every now and then if I have him chasing either the wand or the laser pointer for any length of time, which is usually my signal that the old man needs a break. And when we stop playing he normally goes and takes a nap...lol But is back in about 20 minutes wanting to play again, but he is also nearly 13 years old, so he is a little out of shape and a good round of chase the feathers gets his heart rate up and sometimes I think he is just so happy to feel good enough to play again that he forgets to breath in his excitement.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang.
 
don't know if it helps at all or not but you know i found the kitten with the bad heart last year right? the treedwellers

if not, quick summary is that he was about 3 months old when we got our hands on him and his brother. took him to the vet because it was as if his whole body was beating with every heartbeat. vet diagnosed him with a heart murmur, grade 4. we decided to get the cardiac workup so we had all the info before we made a decision and lucky and so fortunately have been living with him ever since. he has a valve that doesn't work right which causes enlargement, a hole between the right and left sides, and thickening of one chamber.

he wanted to be a kitten but it put me on pins and needles watching him do it. i asked the vet so many questions and one was can i let him play and how much. her answer? she said let him be a kitten and play. that if he's playing himself he'll regulate himself and stop when it's too much. but if i were playing with him like with a string or something of that nature, that he would continue to play beyond what was safe for him to do so because i'm tempting him so i would have to regulate that.

i haven't tempted fate with him but via experience with another of my cat's i know what she said is true. when this other cat, Jr, was a kitten, he liked to play fetch with my fiance. which was adorable but we soon learned that as long as fiance threw the toy, Jr would go after it. even if it were too much. he vomited one day, right in the middle of playing and wanted to keep playing! so after that we knew we could only throw the toy a half dozen times or so and then let him rest. and this kitty is a perfectly healthy kitty. a little loony in the head but otherwise healthy :-)

so i guess what i'm saying is yeah, if everything so far has checked out fine, i'd probably go with yours just overdid it some and to not get too worked up about it.

and fwiw, Fuji's cardiac workup was in that ballpark i think butttttt, there was a consult charge for meeting with the cardiologist the first time so i was actually closer to $700-$800 when i walked out the door i believe. i can check my book if need be
 
Ginger's Foster Mom-

One more question - your vet didn't think any further testing was needed because there was no murmur? It was "case closed" after that?
It's wild how all vets are different.
 
MommaOfMuse said:
Duvessa and Myrrdin both panted as kittens when they would get to chasing each other through the house, as they got older they slowly started panting less. but then again they don't play as hard as they did as kittens. Maxwell will pant every now and then if I have him chasing either the wand or the laser pointer for any length of time, which is usually my signal that the old man needs a break. And when we stop playing he normally goes and takes a nap...lol But is back in about 20 minutes wanting to play again, but he is also nearly 13 years old, so he is a little out of shape and a good round of chase the feathers gets his heart rate up and sometimes I think he is just so happy to feel good enough to play again that he forgets to breath in his excitement.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang.
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Hi Mel-
Thank you. This is very helpful. I was hoping for these kinds of responses. I checked with her foster mom and she said something similar also.
 
Hi Cindy-

Yes, of course I remember your treedwellers...I was hoping you'd jump in. You were the only one I could think of who had a kitty with heart issues. Interesting about cats not stopping when the hoomans are playing with them. I think that's Trinket's issue too. The only time she's panted is when we played with her. We get her going and she loves it even though it's too much I now see. I'll bet if Dave and me stop playing with her and let her play on her own with Merlin that I will not notice panting. What you say makes total sense.

I think I will do an experiment and starting now for a week until the vet calls me, I will not play with her - just let her play on her own and see what happens.

This board is a LIFESAVER to my sanity once again!!!!! :lol:
 
Rosemary - the kitten I am fostering - came to us with a rough time of it... She had MAJOR problems during her spaying so we had a previous blood work ultra sounds and xrays when all that was happening. She is all better now and actually a bit on the chunky side since she had been incapacitated for a long period of time while she healed completely. She is now with me to get her weight back to good with a good diet and exercise. I have to admit our vet is AWESOME and knows the limits of our rescue so unless it is absolutely needed then he will advice otherwise he understands we don't have a lot of money. Oh and By the way... he is a HUGE believer in wet food and loves that I home test and LOVES LOVES LOVES FDMB and DCIN.

I think if he thought it was serious he would recommend more tests but believes she should be alright with good care.
 
Panting after playing may be normal for some cats. My Aby pants really hard after I get him running and jumping after a fishing pole toy. After a few minutes rest, he's fine and ready for more playing. I sent the vet a video of my Aby panting and he vet said not to worry about it.

Panting with some other unsual behavior may indicate a health issue. My Aby occasionally does this panting/lip smacking thing. The vet saw the video and said it looked like post nasal drip from possible allergies.


Edited for clarification.
 
Hi Squeem-

I watched your video of Leroy panting and lip smacking. Boy is he CUTE!!!! I'm glad the vet thinks he's okay.

After hearing from people here on the board and Trinket's foster mom, I've decided to chill out and watch. I think when she plays by herself she will rest when she needs to. When she plays with me she doesn't stop and then pants. My gut says she's okay but we'll see.
 
My civvie cat, Phoenix will pant, too. Usually when he comes running full-bore from the back of the yard :razz:
We had a cat that passed from cardiomyopathy, and while that is only ONE heart problem, he never panted from it. He just had rapid shallow breathing.
 
My civvie cat, Phoenix will pant, too. Usually when he comes running full-bore from the back of the yard :razz:
We had a cat that passed from cardiomyopathy, and while that is only ONE heart problem, he never panted from it. He just had rapid shallow breathing.
 
Um, party-pooper alert.

No veterinarian can tell you a cat doesn't have a heart problem based on x-ray and auscultation (listening with a stethoscope). It cannot be done. Cats can have heart disease that does not cause a murmur and does not show up on x-rays. If anyone tells you different, they are sadly misinformed.

I very much wish that us worrier types could have a vet listen to our cats, pat us on the back, and say "don't worry." Some of you may know that a vet did this to me years ago, with a stray I planned on keeping (the only stray I've ever found and said, he is meant to be with me) ... and that cat died in fulminate heart failure shortly thereafter. This doesnt' mean that every cat who gets a clean bill of health is destined for disaster, of course ! But it does mean that that reassurance is false. Cats with no heart murmurs can certainly have hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (HCM):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19480619

On the other hand, cats can have murmurs that are benign. (Dog murmurs indicate disease the vast majority of time, in contrast.) Not all cats with murmurs actually have heart disease, and the only way to tell the difference is with an echocardiogram. One study with not many participants (so it may not be representative) showed only 53% of cats with murmurs had disease:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21276739
A study done in Europe showed a much higher number:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21276739
(In my experience, it is not that high of a percentage, FWIW--we see a lot of benign murmurs.)

Panting is not normal for cats. Panting can occur in normal cats when overheated, stressed, or with overexertion. (Those African cats are panting because it is very hot out there!) Normal exertion (getting the zoomies around the house, roughhousing with another cat) should not cause panting. I agree that a lot of young cats will play too hard, as Cindy says, and end up having to catch their breath because they've overexerted themselves and gotten too hot.

The first symptom for many cats with cardiac disease is congestive heart failure, aortic thromboembolism (ATE), or sudden death, so personally I would screen any cat who gave me any reason to think that there might possibly be an issue. A few cats will show "exercise intolerance" and we've seen appointments for that reason; it seems to be particularly people who have more than one cat and notice that one cat poops out before the other.

If I had a kitten who panted when chasing the laser light or feather thingy and I did not have my job (working as a cardiology nurse for animals), I might wait on it esp. if there was no murmur and no other sign of disease and the kitten was able to play hard on her own without a problem. If I had a young kitten with a murmur, I would get an echocardiogram no matter where I worked.

In a young cat, if money was a problem, I'd spend it on a cardiologist doing an echocardiogram rather than a regular vet doing an EKG and BP and some kind of ultrasound.

Sorry to spoil the reassurances in this thread ... I think that everyone should have the most information and make their own decisions.
 
Thanks Jess for taking the time to write your post. It was indeed tough to read. :o nailbite_smile

I didn't realize that you were a cardiac nurse....I never knew what your exact job was. My vet offers an EKG for $99 which seems reasonable. I am willing to do this - if I do it and it comes out normal can I relax...will this rule out a heart problem? Can they do this without putting her out? I assume yes since it's only $99.

I know you think it's best to bring her to a specialist but I just can't step foot into another referral hospital. Every cat I've ever brought to one has died and they are robotic there. I can't deal with it and the cost is usually outrageous. I hope you won't take offense to that since I think you work at one.

I've been watching Trinket since her vet appointment onTuesday night. She plays like a maniac both by herself and with Merlin and never pants. She has only panted when I play with her with a wand toy and she doesn't rest.

Thanks for your help.
 
Hi Traci

Traci and Boomer said:
My vet offers an EKG for $99 which seems reasonable. I am willing to do this - if I do it and it comes out normal can I relax...will this rule out a heart problem? Can they do this without putting her out? I assume yes since it's only $99.
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The EKG isn't worth the money IMO. In the 'old days' before echocardiography, they used to try to squeeze info out of an ECG to extrapolate to structural (affecting the shape and musculature) heart disease but it's just not worth it now unless you suspect an irregular heartbeat. In that case, the EKG (aka ECG) is the test of choice. There is no suspicion for irregular heartbeats here though.

I know you think it's best to bring her to a specialist but I just can't step foot into another referral hospital. Every cat I've ever brought to one has died and they are robotic there. I can't deal with it and the cost is usually outrageous. I hope you won't take offense to that since I think you work at one.
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I don't take offense, but I do think that you will have to reconsider at some point. A lot of animals die at referral hospitals because they are very sick, that's why they are there. That's why your family doctor has far fewer patients die in his or her office than the nearby hospital has. That's also why when you or a family member is seriously ill, you seek out a specialist rather than go to the family doctor, and you expect to pay more for the expertise. If you don't like the staff at this place, I hope you told the manager or doctor(s) how you felt and who made you feel that way. It can't be the goal of any business to treat clients poorly, so I try to take the time to tell people when there is a problem. There are also a lot of specialists in the Boston area, check out ACVIM.org for specific information. I know there is a travelling cardiologist, Dr. Gidlewski (I think that's how its spelled), and he has a great reputation.

Anyway, an echo is the only thing that could tell you if there is an underlying heart problem or not. I think this issue came up when Merlin was panting and you received the same advice. With a kitten who is panting only when over-exerted, I can understand your reluctance. It's not wrong to not do an echo.
 
Traci and Boomer said:
I know you think it's best to bring her to a specialist but I just can't step foot into another referral hospital. Every cat I've ever brought to one has died and they are robotic there.
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Traci, have you ever taken a cat to Angell? I don't have any experience with the cardiologists there but love my regular vet there :-D Here's the cardiology department's info: http://www.mspca.org/vet-services/angell-boston/cardiology/
 
Thanks Jess, you've given me a lot to think about. I just need a little time to let it sink in and then I'll be able to face it. It's a little overwhelming at first.

Thanks Squeem for the referral to Angell. Maybe I could go there. I've brought other cats there but not in about 12 years so I don't have a negative feeling towards it.
 
squeem3 said:
Traci and Boomer said:
I know you think it's best to bring her to a specialist but I just can't step foot into another referral hospital. Every cat I've ever brought to one has died and they are robotic there.
Click to expand...

Traci, have you ever taken a cat to Angell? I don't have any experience with the cardiologists there but love my regular vet there :-D Here's the cardiology department's info: http://www.mspca.org/vet-services/angell-boston/cardiology/
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Hey Squeem-
Thanks for the reminder about Angell. I've contacted them to get a quote for an echo. Can't wait to see how much it's gonna cost. nailbite_smile
 
The Petsitter videos show a cat laying there panting away after playing so I think it can be normal, I don't think they'd show a sick cat.

But. I will describe my only experience with a cat that had breathing issues after playing - Peanut. Peanut didn't open-mouth pant, her's was more like a huffing whenever we ran her for too long with the red light. Never though much of it - she played hard, then breathed hard. Peanut died from cancer in her heart. I don't know all the medical terms because my husband destroyed all the documents when they came because he didn't think I could bear to see them. Her cancer started in her heart walls, came out and through the aorta, and then started forming a mass in her chest next to her lungs which is what finally gave us symptoms to go looking for a problem (other than the huffing, which didn't seem to be a problem).

We did not find the heart issue until right before surgery when they did the echocardiogram to make sure her heart was ok for surgery to remove the mass in her chest. No other tests showed anything wrong with her heart other than the ultrasound dr saying one side looked to be thickening, which was normal in older cats.

If you can afford an echocardiogram I would do it. I know the thought of bad news on yet another furrchild scares you to death. I'd give anything to have run the tests on Peanut early enough to have caught the problem before it was too late to do anything. My approach to my cats health is now: Being worried about the answer and finding things you don't want to know about is much better than being too scared to look and then finding out you missed something and are too late.

She's a young kitten and odds are she's fine, just a lingering issue with the URI or something she learned while compensating for that. But you are worrier and I think you need to know that you've checked everything out.
 
"But you are worrier and I think you need to know that you've checked everything out."

Hah! Yup, I am a worrier. I'm looking into a specialist. The cost at Angell Memorial in Boston is $400 for the echo and exam.

My vet called today to check in on her...it's been a week since her appointment and Trinket's not panted during that time. I've not played with her with a wand, she's only played alone or with Merlin.

I'm going to do a little more looking at doctors, prices, etc.

Thank you for your story Melanie. I've never heard of heart cancer. My God! I'm so sorry about poor Peanut.
 
Traci and Boomer said:
Hey Squeem-
Thanks for the reminder about Angell. I've contacted them to get a quote for an echo. Can't wait to see how much it's gonna cost. nailbite_smile
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Angell does offer a variety of financial aid. They usually send you to their financial aid office to pay the bill for specialized services. I know they offer CareCredit.

And that reminds me... I need to schedule a yearly check up for both civies ohmygod_smile Have to schedule now since their vet is always booked for at least a few weeks out.
 
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