Trinity first home test

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Angie Haynie

Angie Haynie

Member Since 2019
I tested for the first time tonight. Per my vet’s instructions I am not to shoot insulin until trinity is eating on her own again. Right now due to a severe upper respiratory I am having to syringe feed her.
Based on the advice of this group, since I have 8 Cats in the house, between my mom and I. I am going to order blood Keytone strips and meter as it’s hard to tell when she uses the box which tinkle is hers. So the urine ones I bought aren’t helping me. I am slightly worried about ketones as she has been off insulin now for more than 10 days
 
Congratulations on your first test, and for taking control of Trinity's care!

Is there any history of ketones or DKA? How much food are you currently able to get into her?
 
if I'm not mistaken, the KetoMojo meter is available at many pharmacies, big box stores, and possibly even at groceries, it's being heavily merchandised for human use on the "keto diet"
 
My area is really rural. Doubt I find one in my area. If her number is scary. I could take her to vet tomorrow for ketone testing.

Idjit's mom said:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/trinity-diagnosed-3-years-ago.218303/ from the Intro forum.

@MrWorfMen's Mom
@Nan & Amber
@Chris & China (GA)

Angie, I have tagged in some experienced members so they can look at these concerns and offer input. You may be able to find meter that measures ketones at a pharmacy in your area, and not have to wait for order/delivery.
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Just ordered one from Nova. It was recommended by an admin on the sister Facebook site of this website

CandyH & Catcat said:
if I'm not mistaken, the KetoMojo meter is available at many pharmacies, big box stores, and possibly even at groceries, it's being heavily merchandised for human use on the "keto diet"
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Nan & Amber said:
Congratulations on your first test, and for taking control of Trinity's care!

Is there any history of ketones or DKA? How much food are you currently able to get into her?
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No history of ketones or DKA. I had not heard of them until this week and she has been diabetic for 3 years. No problems. I am able to get 15ml babyfood 2/day in her.
 
Good news on the no ketones! It makes things much easier at this critical time when she's sick and not eating and you've been holding back the insulin. You've already got a lot to balance, here.

If you're getting a decent amount of food into her, with that 306 you could probably shoot safely tonight, however, I cannot advise on a specific dose because I am not a ProZinc user. But just to get the ball rolling to help inform any dose advice that others might give:

-- your signature says "2+" units of ProZinc. What was the dose she hypo'd on? Was that a typical dose for her?
-- how was the testing for you (and her)? do you think you would be able to get another test or two in tonight if you were to shoot?
 
Nan & Amber said:
Good news on the no ketones! It makes things much easier at this critical time when she's sick and not eating and you've been holding back the insulin. You've already got a lot to balance, here.

If you're getting a decent amount of food into her, with that 306 you could probably shoot safely tonight, however, I cannot advise on a specific dose because I am not a ProZinc user. But just to get the ball rolling to help inform any dose advice that others might give:

-- your signature says "2+" units of ProZinc. What was the dose she hypo'd on? Was that a typical dose for her?
-- how was the testing for you (and her)? do you think you would be able to get another test or two in tonight if you were to shoot?
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She was doing well on 2 units for a couple years, but started to drink a little more. Vet got a BG 385 only 1.5 hours after her shot and he upped her to 3 units. She was ok for the first 2 shots at 3 units. The third one, I almost lost her.
Vet recommends I start back at one unit to be cautious. She is being poked and prodded a lot right now. Sun q fluids, syringe meds and food etc., but she will likely tolerate one more test. My first test I hit a vein, blood flew. But she stayed still. Needless to say I need practice.
 
OK, thanks, that gives a pretty good picture of what is going on. Poor little girl! 2 to 3 units is a big jump, and it's even possible that she was starting to need less insulin than 2U at the time. Sometimes too much insulin can look like too little, and single spot BG tests don't give the full story.

The reason I ask about the possibility of another test tonight is that I don't think you'd want to give insulin in this situation without some ability to monitor. Night times are often harder to monitor anyway (some caregivers actually like to get a little sleep!) so given that you are just starting testing it might be better to wait until tomorrow. That will also give some of the experienced ProZinc users a chance to see this and give some input as to dose.

Another question: do you have any food that is higher carb than the Purina DM that you could syringe into her easily? Or else honey or syrup? This isn't for right now, it's just thinking ahead and being prepared if she ever goes low again. Now that you are testing, you will have early warning and if you have the high-carb food available can take action to bring her BG up again. And hopefully you'll never go through an awful experience like you had with the symptomatic hypo.
 
Nan & Amber said:
OK, thanks, that gives a pretty good picture of what is going on. Poor little girl! 2 to 3 units is a big jump, and it's even possible that she was starting to need less insulin than 2U at the time. Sometimes too much insulin can look like too little, and single spot BG tests don't give the full story.

The reason I ask about the possibility of another test tonight is that I don't think you'd want to give insulin in this situation without some ability to monitor. Night times are often harder to monitor anyway (some caregivers actually like to get a little sleep!) so given that you are just starting testing it might be better to wait until tomorrow. That will also give some of the experienced ProZinc users a chance to see this and give some input as to dose.

Another question: do you have any food that is higher carb than the Purina DM that you could syringe into her easily? Or else honey or syrup? This isn't for right now, it's just thinking ahead and being prepared if she ever goes low again. Now that you are testing, you will have early warning and if you have the high-carb food available can take action to bring her BG up again. And hopefully you'll never go through an awful experience like you had with the symptomatic hypo.
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I keep honey on hand in case she ever has a hypo. Vet warned me that it could happen when she was diagnosed. I also have some weruva omg bff gravy packets that I’m feeding my ckd/brain tumor boy Tristan. That may be higher carb?
I will test in morning then syringe feed and update my spreadsheet. Then I’ll ask for dosing recommendations. She was running 350 at er while she was there. 350 at reg vet day after she left er. And 306 today. So considering vet stress I think without insulin she’s at a consistent number. At least since her hypo event.
 
I'm so sorry to hear you and Trinity are having a difficult time. I have to admit to being a little concerned about the vet suggesting no insulin while Trinity is not eating given her BG level. I like Chris' suggestion.

While it's great you are getting chicken baby food into Trinity, it's not a complete diet for her. There is prescription food you can get from your vet, Hills Urgent Care A/D, which is easily diluted for use with a syringe. I'd call and see if they have it or can get it for you.

The other thing I think should be considered is a feeding tube. It would make things much easier for both you and Trinity and ensure you are able to get enough food into Trinity such that you can give her the insulin she needs.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
I'm so sorry to hear you and Trinity are having a difficult time. I have to admit to being a little concerned about the vet suggesting no insulin while Trinity is not eating given her BG level. I like Chris' suggestion.

While it's great you are getting chicken baby food into Trinity, it's not a complete diet for her. There is prescription food you can get from your vet, Hills Urgent Care A/D, which is easily diluted for use with a syringe. I'd call and see if they have it or can get it for you.

The other thing I think should be considered is a feeding tube. It would make things much easier for both you and Trinity and ensure you are able to get enough food into Trinity such that you can give her the insulin she needs.
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I don’t think the female vet nor I realized Trinity would be 10+ days and still sick. Our local animal clinic has a male and female vet. The male vet tried to jump Trinity from 2 units to 4. I refused and agreed on 3 units, as I’d always trusted the vet to regulate her, however he had proven to be ignorant relating to feline diabetes before. At that time I wasn’t aware increases should be done in quarters or halfs. Three shots later I almost lost her.
I have made arrangements for the male vet to never treat my animals again as this isn’t the first time he’s been incompetent.
The female vet was being overly cautious by saying no insulin at the time. Trinity made a big improvement today, eating some of her Purina DM kibble on her own. (Trinity refuses All wet food.) Royal Canin has a recovery liquid that the vet gave me to try but it’s only good a few days after opening so today we were back to baby food. I will check on the Hills or get another bottle of the Royal Canin. I don’t want to do a feeding tube as I believe she’ll be eating normally by the end of the week. In fact if she isn’t, I’ll be sure she sees the vet Friday as she will have completed two prescriptions of Clavamox by that time in addition to the IV antibiotics administered at the emergency hospital.
In the middle of her getting sick, I’ve been to the ER myself and been diagnosed with bronchitis and bacterial sinusitis so I’m not in top form. I’m actually more sick than I’ve been in years.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
I'm so sorry to hear you and Trinity are having a difficult time. I have to admit to being a little concerned about the vet suggesting no insulin while Trinity is not eating given her BG level. I like Chris' suggestion.

While it's great you are getting chicken baby food into Trinity, it's not a complete diet for her. There is prescription food you can get from your vet, Hills Urgent Care A/D, which is easily diluted for use with a syringe. I'd call and see if they have it or can get it for you.

The other thing I think should be considered is a feeding tube. It would make things much easier for both you and Trinity and ensure you are able to get enough food into Trinity such that you can give her the insulin she needs.
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I’ve been feeding her 15 ml 2/ day. That isn’t enough to put her back on insulin. I also have a 5 ml feeding syringe. If I could get her to eat 15ml 2/day and 5 ml 2/day, staggering the timing, would that be enough?
And since I won’t be feeding her during the night does that mean skip the night shot until she’s eating normally?
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
If she's over 300 in the morning and she's either eating on her own or you're pretty sure you can syringe feed her several times throughout the cycle, I think it's probably a good idea to go ahead and get her back on the insulin.

I think 1U is a good starting point, especially now that you're better at testing.
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One mad cat and 5 test strips later, I got a result. Chris she was 136 this morning. And after reading the booklet on the relion prime. I put the blood on the strip wrong last night. Likely, according to the booklet, getting an overly high reading.
 
Angie Haynie said:
Trinity made a big improvement today, eating some of her Purina DM kibble on her own. (Trinity refuses All wet food.) Royal Canin has a recovery liquid that the vet gave me to try but it’s only good a few days after opening so today we were back to baby food. I will check on the Hills or get another bottle of the Royal Canin.
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As the Mother of a kibble addict too, I know only too well how difficult it can be to get a cat transitioned to wet food. I had been trying to transition my girl from 10 wks old when she joined our family. All she would do with wet food was try to bury it as if it were her waste. It was not until a couple of years into our journey with diabetes that she finally relented and tried the wet food. To this day, she'd still much prefer her kibble and quite frankly it breaks my heart not to be able to give it to her but it's for her own good. The good news is that you have access to some low carb kibbles that I could not get here. Hopefully one of those will meet with Trinity's approval. For now if she will eat the kibble herself, I would give it to her. You'd be able to get her back on her insulin and you can adjust the insulin dose to deal with the higher carbs. It certainly would be easier on both of you if she was eating on her own.

I don't like the idea of her going without insulin but I also don't think dosing once daily is ideal. It might actually make her feel worse than she does now because her BG would be going down one cycle and up the next.

I see Trinity's BG was quite a bit lower yesterday morning which is good but may just be the lack of food overnight. See if Trinity will eat some of her dry food and if that alone or the dry plus some syringed baby food is enough, you could certainly try a small dose of insulin as long as you can reliably test her BG to track how she is doing.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
As the Mother of a kibble addict too, I know only too well how difficult it can be to get a cat transitioned to wet food. I had been trying to transition my girl from 10 wks old when she joined our family. All she would do with wet food was try to bury it as if it were her waste. It was not until a couple of years into our journey with diabetes that she finally relented and tried the wet food. To this day, she'd still much prefer her kibble and quite frankly it breaks my heart not to be able to give it to her but it's for her own good. The good news is that you have access to some low carb kibbles that I could not get here. Hopefully one of those will meet with Trinity's approval. For now if she will eat the kibble herself, I would give it to her. You'd be able to get her back on her insulin and you can adjust the insulin dose to deal with the higher carbs. It certainly would be easier on both of you if she was eating on her own.

I don't like the idea of her going without insulin but I also don't think dosing once daily is ideal. It might actually make her feel worse than she does now because her BG would be going down one cycle and up the next.

I see Trinity's BG was quite a bit lower yesterday morning which is good but may just be the lack of food overnight. See if Trinity will eat some of her dry food and if that alone or the dry plus some syringed baby food is enough, you could certainly try a small dose of insulin as long as you can reliably test her BG to track how she is doing.
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I am taking her in to vet again today. 2 weeks of Clavamox plus an overnight in the ER with IV fluids hasn’t cleared this up. Her nose is dripping thick yellow mucus (have humidifier by her bed).
Am going to push to have feeding tube inserted. I can tell by picking her up that she’s lost at least a pound and you’re right she needs to be back on insulin.
I’m going to have them test for ketones while I’m there. Will keep you updated.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Sounds like a good plan. Will keep an eye out for your update.
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Not good news and not related to her diabetes at all. Vet believes she has a mass causing the mucus to run out her nose. I have 8 cats, if it were bacterial or viral at least her bonded mate would have it, and he doesn’t. She has lost 9/10 of a pound. 15% of her body weight. Vet recommends one last ditch effort. Try doxycycline for 2 days to see if mucus abates enough for her to eat. In the meantime feed her Hills urgent care every 2 hours (15ml).
No ketones. Her BG at vet was like 263.
My mind is in a fog. I knew she’d lost weight etc but I never realized this could be goodbye. In just two days.
I’ve been sobbing into her fur and brushing her all afternoon. I guess the word is shock.
I love all my cats but Trinity is my soul cat. She is me in cat form and I am her. We have conversations in Tonkinese slang.
Vet said she was too weak for sedation and didn’t recommend feeding tube as she is so sick.
I’m sorry I’m rambling, I just… I’m devastated.
One up thing, she can smell her fave treats and is gobbling them and she likes the Hills Urgent Care. My Mom says we are torturing her and need to let her go…. I can’t yet. Vet said give it 2 days…. We aren’t hoping for a complete fix. Just enough of one that she eats and drinks on her own again thus having quality of life..…
 
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Oh no.... I am so sorry.... What a terrible shock, and a horrible possible outcome.

I'm glad you are going to give her the two days of new ab's. While she's still enthusiastically eating her fave treats, she's still got some fight and q.o.l., and, I say, there's still hope for a turnaround. Cats can be surprisingly resilient.

I really hope the doxy helps. Give your girl all the snuggles in the world now.
 
Oh Angie. I can only imagine what a heartbreaking shock this is. Prayers that the new AB helps. Feed her all the treats she will eat along with the Urgent care and give her all the cuddles, snuggles and brushies she wants. Her BG isn't that high and no ketones so just concentrate on the loving and giving her food for now. Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug: for you and
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for Trinity.
 
Angie, sending healing energies to Trinity and peace and ease to your aching heart. Many virtual hugs and comforts.
 
Sending healing energy to both you and Trinity. I've gone through one sudden, unexpected loss of a three year old and some unexpected death when kitties were thought to be improving. I'm glad you have a couple of days to spend with Trinity. I hope the meds give her some relief and she eats and feels better. The old ones are always the sweetest.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Oh Angie. I can only imagine what a heartbreaking shock this is. Prayers that the new AB helps. Feed her all the treats she will eat along with the Urgent care and give her all the cuddles, snuggles and brushies she wants. Her BG isn't that high and no ketones so just concentrate on the loving and giving her food for now. Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug: for you and View attachment 47454 for Trinity.
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Thrilled to say doxycycline killed off Trinity’s infection and it wasn’t a mass in her sinuses after all!!! Sadly even with nasal discharge gone, she still won’t eat. I mention that in my new post “giving insulin to a syringe fed cat” along with what’s currently going on. Just started testing her again last night.
 
Angie Haynie said:
Thrilled to say doxycycline killed off Trinity’s infection and it wasn’t a mass in her sinuses after all!!! Sadly even with nasal discharge gone, she still won’t eat. I mention that in my new post “giving insulin to a syringe fed cat” along with what’s currently going on. Just started testing her again last night.
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Oh and my sweetheart will still scarf down treats, 4 at a time on her own.
 
Thrilled to hear there is no mass and the infection has been eradicated. :joyful: The not eating is still concerning although the fact that she is willing to scarf down treats suggests perhaps she is not fond of the food she is getting. Is she somewhat of a kibble addict? Having a kibble addict of my own, I could open can after can of food with no joy but offer kibble and she'd have at it. If that is perhaps the problem, have you considered trying Young Again or Dr. Elsey's. Both are low carb kibble acceptable for diabetic kitties although wet is still better. Both companies will send samples to try. Dr. Elsey's I believe is available in some pet stores while Young Again is only available online.

The other thing to consider would be an appetite stimulant as long as Trinity is not showing any signs of nausea.
 
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