Treats and Feeding

[KittyMom777]

Hi,
I'd like some advice on feeding. Silver currently gets 1/2 a tin of Fancy Feast Classic along with 1/4 cup of Purina DM dry morning and evening. I have heard on here that even Purina DM dry isn't so good. So how do I get him off it and him not be hungry all the time? His ravenous appetite is under control somewhat, but whenever I have tried cutting back/removing the dry, his hunger returns with a vengeance.

Also, regarding treats - I need to find a low carb, high protein treat that I can give him when I am doing the tests. I don't have time to cook for him like some of you do. What types of treats are low carb? It is hard to see on the packaging.

Thirdly - I have a second cat - Sasha, who is not diabetic but huge! She has gone from a wee kitty to 17lb in the last 6 months. I feed her the same as Silver but with just a teaspoon of the same DM dry food sprinkled over the FF. I think part of her weight gain is that Silver is no longer able to chase her round the house playing games like they used to as his back legs are bad.

So - how on earth do I get her weight down without starving her?
How do I find a low carb treat?
How much wet should I feed Silver to keep him from being hungry while cutting back/eliminating the dry? I don't plan to buy a new bag of dry when this bag is done and its about half full.

Juliet

 

[Hillary & Maui (GA)]

Silver currently gets 1/2 a tin of Fancy Feast Classic along with 1/4 cup of Purina DM dry morning and evening. I have heard on here that even Purina DM dry isn't so good. So how do I get him off it and him not be hungry all the time? His ravenous appetite is under control somewhat, but whenever I have tried cutting back/removing the dry, his hunger returns with a vengeance.

1/2 can of FF is hardly any food at all -- if you start giving him one full can of FF at least twice a day that will go a long way to staving off the extreme hunger - when Maui first started to eat wet food - she could eat anyway from 1 -2 full cans of FF at one time - up to 3 times a day.

As her bg's got regulated, she slowed down to eating 1 can twice a day.

The sooner you remove the dry food, the easier time you will have in regulating the bg's. Until he is regulated, he may need more than the normal allotment of food - so don't be stingy with the canned food, give him at least 1 can eat meal - and maybe even give him several meals in a day - then you can break up the amount 1/2 can four times a day.

You can also add water to the canned food and freeze it - then before you go to bed, you can put out the frozen food, it will take a couple hours to thaw and allow him to eat during the night.

Also, regarding treats - I need to find a low carb, high protein treat that I can give him when I am doing the tests. I don't have time to cook for him like some of you do. What types of treats are low carb? It is hard to see on the packaging.

here is a link to low carb treats -- viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9172

Thirdly - I have a second cat - Sasha, who is not diabetic but huge! She has gone from a wee kitty to 17lb in the last 6 months. I feed her the same as Silver but with just a teaspoon of the same DM dry food sprinkled over the FF. I think part of her weight gain is that Silver is no longer able to chase her round the house playing games like they used to as his back legs are bad.

So - how on earth do I get her weight down without starving her?
How do I find a low carb treat?
How much wet should I feed Silver to keep him from being hungry while cutting back/eliminating the dry? I don't plan to buy a new bag of dry when this bag is done and its about half full.

feed both cats exactly the same food and by giving the non-diabetic low carb food, she will start to lose weight - again get rid of the dry food... and just cause she can't play with the diabetic - doesn't mean she can't play with you - get toys and start playing - most cats go crazy for laser pointers - you can get her jumping the walls, running back and forth, etc. also get wand toys and get her leaping and jumping - work her until she pants and is out of breath and needs to lay down to rest

 

[KittyMom777]

Thanks. Think you misread - he gets a full can of FF but in two meals. He's never had more than a half the past 8 years and won't eat more. Sasha won't play with toys. No interest. I've tried. Thx for link to treats. I will check it out.

Can't give several meals a day I work full time. Sasha would eat it if I ldft food out at night. They don't free feed.

 

[Hillary & Maui (GA)]

I did not mis read - you said that you give him 1/2 can at each meal for a total of 1 can a day or only 3 ounces of food a day....

and I said that if you remove the dry food and give him 1 can twice a day for a total of 6 ounces - that will be better for him. and i said that he may need even more than 6 ounces of food, until he gets accustomed to eating only wet food and until he is regulated.

 

[dirtybirdsoaps]

The general formula is [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70, so if your cat's best weight is 12lbs, it'd be [13.6 X 12 pounds] + 70 = 233 calories.

If Sasha is overweight find the amount of calories she should be at that weight and start to cut back the calories, also another helpful tip I have found is adding water to the canned food it fills them up quicker and as a bonus they get more moisture ;-)

 

[KittyMom777]

I did not mis read - you said that you give him 1/2 can at each meal for a total of 1 can a day or only 3 ounces of food a day....

and I said that if you remove the dry food and give him 1 can twice a day for a total of 6 ounces - that will be better for him. and i said that he may need even more than 6 ounces of food, until he gets accustomed to eating only wet food and until he is regulated.

Ok I've given him a full can fancy feast tonight and no dry. He didn't seem to complain. Keeping an eye on his numbers as this could make him drop.

I don't know what his ideal weight is. He was a whopping 17lb but the diabetes dropped him to 12. He looks a bit frail to me but that's probably coz I am used to him being tubby.

 

[dirtybirdsoaps]

Lol I was the same way with Hidey. He was 17.5 lbs before his diagnosis, now he's about 14 and I thought he looked sickly. After a couple of months and looking at weight charts I realized WOW he was fat lol same with my other 2. Yuri, he's a big cat in general and can't afford to lose much but some so I got him from 17.5 to 16 and that's good for him, then there's Hot Rod.....he's my garbage disposal eats anything and everything in sight! He was 17.5 and FAT he's never cleaned himself and I always thought it was because he was a stray and we found him about 4-5 weeks old so I always assumed it was because he was never taught by his mother. I always had to trim his bottom because he's long haired and ewwwwwwww, then he wanted to sleep in my bed lol. I got him down to 15.5 and now he bathes himself and can jump on things. I think it's just hard to see it when your there everyday, especially since most cats are overweight now a days.

 

[BJM]

Take a look at this page on body condition from Ohio State Veterinary College.

Which level looks most like him?

 

[Critter Mom]

Sasha won't play with toys. No interest. I've tried.

Did she like to play before? Often with the change to wet, low carb food cats regain more of their playfulness. I've certainly seen it in Saoirse. She actually looks younger, too. Our vet even commented on it.

 

[BJM]

How about a pinch of catnip?

 

[Merlin]

Regarding treats, my cats really like the freeze dried chicken and duck. The brand name is Simply Nourish or Purebites and you can find them at PetsMart, Petco, Pet Club, etc. I go to the dog section and get the bigger package because for some reason you get more and it is cheaper. Because they are dog treats, they are a little bigger than the kitties so I break them up when I get home. They last a long time. Just be sure to check the ingredients and there should be only one ingredient which is chicken or duck or beef, etc. That way you know that there is nothing else added to the treats.

 

[KittyMom777]

Sasha won't play with toys. No interest. I've tried.

Did she like to play before? Often with the change to wet, low carb food cats regain more of their playfulness. I've certainly seen it in Saoirse. She actually looks younger, too. Our vet even commented on it.

Sasha's the non diabetic. I've not changed her food. They never used to play at all except as kittens. Probably my fault as I work full time with a 2 hour each way commute so not too much time to play.

 

[BJM]

You can use a vegetable peeler to shave off bits from the dog sized treats.

 

[KittyMom777]

Regarding treats, my cats really like the freeze dried chicken and duck. The brand name is Simply Nourish or Purebites and you can find them at PetsMart, Petco, Pet Club, etc. I go to the dog section and get the bigger package because for some reason you get more and it is cheaper. Because they are dog treats, they are a little bigger than the kitties so I break them up when I get home. They last a long time. Just be sure to check the ingredients and there should be only one ingredient which is chicken or duck or beef, etc. That way you know that there is nothing else added to the treats.

There's a Petsmart near me. I will look for those thanks.

 

[Hillary & Maui (GA)]

Ok I've given him a full can fancy feast tonight and no dry. He didn't seem to complain. Keeping an eye on his numbers as this could make him drop.

ha ha -- see knew he would enjoy an entire can....and yes removing the dry food can certainly make his BG levels drop. good idea to keep testing.

I don't know what his ideal weight is. He was a whopping 17lb but the diabetes dropped him to 12. He looks a bit frail to me but that's probably coz I am used to him being tubby.

Maui was 15 pounds pre-diabetes. Then she dropped to 8 pounds. With regulation and changing to the canned food, she went to 11-12 pounds which was her ideal weight.

 

[dirtybirdsoaps]

Sasha won't play with toys. No interest. I've tried.

Did she like to play before? Often with the change to wet, low carb food cats regain more of their playfulness. I've certainly seen it in Saoirse. She actually looks younger, too. Our vet even commented on it.

Sasha's the non diabetic. I've not changed her food. They never used to play at all except as kittens. Probably my fault as I work full time with a 2 hour each way commute so not too much time to play.

In that case I would suggest you do switch her food. Unfortunately an overweight kitty is the perfect candidate to gain a diagnosis of diabetes not to mention the other health issues dry food can cause. It would also prevent the possibility of Silver getting her food and spiking his numbers. When Hidey was diagnosed I knew it wasnt going to be possible to just switch his food, not to mention I still think the dry food he was eating was the final push over the edge for diabetes. I had him on Blue Buffalo weight management, he didnt lose weight he GAINED weight and a diagnosis of diabetes lol.

 

[Hillary & Maui (GA)]

since you have a long commute to/from work - you could invest in a timed feeder or two and set it up with the canned food inside (add water to keep moist) and have it designated to open at certain times while you aren't home.

this way they always have food available and it's fresh

 

[Critter Mom]

I thought that sharing some of my experience of feeding both dry and wet foods might help you.

Out of ignorance - and because of veterinary recommendations and manufacturers' claims about dental health benefits - for years I fed all of my cats (allegedly) premium quality dry food with an occasional wet food meal for a treat. I lost my Tara to a UTI due to bad veterinary advice and a dry diet. I very nearly lost her brother, Psycho, to a urinary tract blockage a few months later. I then lost my Danú to hepatic lipidosis - probably triggered by a change to an even worse dry diet (and again down to the complete and utter hubris of the treating vet :cry: ). Saoirse developed calcium oxalate uroliths after I changed my cats over to a dry food promising urinary protection. Such foods may reduce struvite urolith formation (potentially treatable by dietary changes, but probably caused by the dry diet in the first place due to dehydration and food-induced pH imbalance). The additives can then lead to oxalate urolith formation (requiring surgical removal). The so-called urinary protection was (purportedly) protecting my cats from problems caused by bad food in the first place, and the fix for one problem led to a worse problem. I learned about this on catinfo.org.

Saoirse only started gaining weight when she was prescribed a Royal Canin veterinary dry diet for urolith prevention. I also suspect her pancreatitis and diabetes are sequelae of GI tract inflammation caused by two other Royal Canin veterinary dry diets (Satiety and Obesity Control) prescribed to address the weight gain that she suffered as a result of eating the first. Did she lose weight on these formulas? Did she heck as like! She spent a couple of years on near starvation level food portions. Her near constant hunger possibly obscured her diabetes symptoms in the early stages. She ended up with a bald tummy which her vet at the time insisted was due to boredom-related stress. Wrong! Since switching to a species appropriate wet diet, all of Saoirse's tummy fur has grown back beautifully and with the help of a digital baby scales and a bit of education about how to calculate the calorie content of her wet food it's now a dream to manage her weight. By adding a little extra water to her wet food her hydration levels and her urinary pH are finally healthy and will protect her from the urinary tract problems caused by the food that was supposed to protect her. My civvie, Lúnasa is doing famously on the wet diet, too. Both of my cats now have softer, shinier fur. They're more playful, more energetic. Their mood is better and they both look the picture of good health. Saoirse is fourteen. She has gone from being what my previous vet described as 'an old lady' to looking like she's only three or four years of age. Her body condition is perfect. Our new vet is gobsmacked at the change: At our last consult he actually stood back from the examination table in amazement at the transformation in her. And both of my cats eat well: no more starvation-level portion control and begging (which used to wither me up inside :sad: ).

My cats ended up ill or I lost them because, through my failure to educate myself well enough about how to care for them properly and my misplaced trust in vets and food manufacturers, I fed them a diet of complete tat for years. I got sucked in by the dry food myths/hype. If i had had known to switch Saoirse to a species appropriate wet diet sooner I would have been able to get her weight down easily, her urinary tract would have been healthier than when she was on the prescription food and she may never have developed health problems in the first place. My other little ones might not have had their lives ended prematurely. (Tara was only six years old, Psycho had a near miss at the same age, and Danú was only seven... :cry

To anyone reading this, I cannot recommend switching to a species appropriate, wet diet highly enough. Everything that Dr Lisa promises on catinfo.org was delivered for my girls - in spades - after the switch. I would spare others the pain of seeing their little ones poorly or the agonising pain of losing them and the awful realisation that the food I gave them did them harm. My heart sinks when I see product listings for dry foods now because I think of all the unnecessary pain and suffering that cats and caregivers alike will suffer because of them. And all for the sake of lining shareholders' pockets ... :YMSIGH:

 

[KittyMom777]

Thanks Critter Mom.

Do you have a name or is Critter Mom preferred?

Juliet

 

[Critter Mom]

My name's Áine (fada optional), although my nickname is variously Moglet, Mogster, or Moggie! :smile:


BTW, I heartily second the recommendations about timed feeders. When Saoirse was still on BID dosing they helped so much with night-time feeding. It gave me some small bit of peace of mind that she would have food and they helped enormously with getting her regulated. Without them, I would have ended up resorting to free feeding while I tried to sleep because was absolutely terrified she would go low when I couldn't monitor her and intervene should the need arise.