Transition to all wet food?

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

Chester's Masters

Member
Hello FDMB!
I'm thinking about transitioning our diabetic cat to all wet food diet.
Currently he is on a combination wet and dry food (On the advice of our former vet).
I've read on here that wet is best, but am I right to try eliminating dry food all-together?

Chester currently weighs 15 pounds, but could stand to lose a few.
For years we've fed him a quarter cup of Hill's Science Diet Light dry food, and a quarter can of Purina DM wet food, twice a day.

I've tried to follow the rules of thumb and caloric converters but can't figure out the proper calculation on how to replace the nutrition he'll be losing from the dry, with the wet.
In other words, if I take the dry away, how much more wet food does he need to replace it?

The nutrition info from the labels are:
Purina DM wet - Metabolizable Energy (ME): 1227 kcal/kg, 191 kcal/can
Hill's Science Diet Light (dry food) - 3225 kcal/kg (calcuated), 318 kcal/cup (calculated)

Any help is much appreciated. Thanks!
 
As Sue says be careful about the transition but DO IT. I didn't know how it would effect my cat when he was first diagnosed and pulled him off dry food and he hypo'd a couple of times before I figured things out - he was on a very high dose and than I took him off dry food - but he went OTJ pretty quickly after that - although we are back on the juice now and he's having his issues BUT we have never gone back to dry food with either cat and their coats are smoother and healthier and they are in better shape in many ways. Read up on it - there is no reason we should be feeding cats dry food. None.
 
Thanks for the replies thus far - I have checked out the catinfo site, but am still having trouble with the conversions to determine how much wet to substitute for dry.
We've recently started home monitoring fairly closely, so if the transition has any dramatic effects we will notice them and adjust accordingly.
 
Here's a easy formula for how much to feed, courtesy of Carl:

20-30 calories per pound of ideal body weight, per day. That will keep a healthy cat at its ideal weight. The range of calories is dependent upon a few factors, one of which would be level of activity.
 
Here is the section on how much to feed from catinfo.org: http://catinfo.org/?link=felineobesity#How_Much_Do_I_Feed

This chart has the updated nutritional values for DM canned: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8Uu8g1u8Su9YTgxNGE1MDItM2MyMC00Y2Y3LWI4ODMtMzhkYTkxOGM4NThk/edit.

Purina DM is perfectly fine to feed a diabetic cat. However, it's almost exactly the same thing as the low carb flavors of Fancy Feast (also Purina), so you're paying a large markup for just the prescription label. Here are the low carb flavors of Fancy feast, which are the same thing and far cheaper: http://felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm. You can get a premium food like the ones listed on the nutrition chart above for still less than what you're paying for the DM, with better quality ingredients.

Are you home testing? As others mentioned many cats see a drastic drop in their BG levels when the dry food is removed, so if you give the same amount of insulin it could lead to a deadly hypoglycemic incident. Make sure you drop the dose (no more than 1u) and are home testing as you change the diet.
 
I have a question. I am going to run my first at home curve for Buca on Friday. After which, if the numbers aren't improving enough the vet wants to change the insulin- I requested Lantus or Levemir and she agreed. But I am also transitioning from dry to wet food and would like a little advice.

Buca has had very high numbers. Starting out at 558 when he was first diagnosed, and hovering at 432 when he had his first curve at the vet after being on 2u bid caninsulin for a week. The vet has him up to 4u bid now (I hope I'm converting this right... in Canada) which I thought was a little high, but we'll see how it is doing in his system when I curve him (I'm not expecting much of a change from what I've heard about this insulin).

I've been supplementing a little of the fancy feast pate while I administer the insulin and the plan is to go full wet food diet when we change insulins. He gets a quarter of the container twice a day with his shots, and I free feed half to 3/4 a cup a day of the dry food which he eats half hour before each of his shots also.

Would it be wise, then, to start over when I get the new insulin and start feeding just wet food? Start at 1u bid... obviously I'm not going to start him at 4u, but is 1u good to start at seeing as how he's so high in BG? I don't know if the vet is going to suggest starting at 2u, I certainly hope not... how much insulin do you typically see used to regulate these guys? My vet seemed willing to go quite high, but I'd rather switch to a better insulin and diet.
 
Yes, this would be the perfect opportunity to change the diet. 1u twice a day is a good average starting dose. Most cats on a low carb, canned diet do not ever need much more than 1u of insulin.

Don't let high numbers freak you out. Regulating your cat is a long, slow process, and giving too high a dose is counterproductive, because it will keep BG just as high as too low a dose. You start at 1u, and then gradually increase/decrease the dose in .25u-.5u increments every 3-7 days depending on his daily mid-cycle numbers.
 
Thanks for the further tips. Must have missed that section of catinfo.
When I mentioned home monitoring, I did mean we're home testing. Have become quite experienced in only the last few weeks after a few hypo episodes (currently back to square one with a low dose).
I'm assuming now that a kcal (info from the label) and a calorie are the same thing?
I'm having trouble downloading the google docs spreadsheet, but did get the info for my dry food from a link off catinfo (Binky's). Will try the Google Doc again from another machine.
I'm thinking maybe I'll substitute the dry food for the recommended wet fancy feast to see if he likes that enough. Any tips on how to transition into the change? Don't know if I want to take him off dry food cold turkey and swing his BG #'s yet again.
 
While we often say calorie, we really mean kilocalorie

Here's a bit of math to follow:

Purina DM wet
191 kcal/can <-- 5.5 oz weight, roughly the same in oz volume (cups)
= roughly 35 cal per oz

Hill's Science Diet Light (dry food)
318 kcal / 8 oz volume
= roughly 40 cal per oz (more calorie dense due to little water)

4 oz dry = about 4.5 oz canned
6 oz dry = about 6.8 oz canned
 
It's usually best to take it a little slow, to minimize tummy/ poop troubles. You might do 20%wet/80% dry for a few feedings, then add more wet and less dry until you are on completely wet. Some cats can do the change overnight, but not all.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
It's usually best to take it a little slow, to minimize tummy/ poop troubles. ....
Click to expand...

So if you are feeding 1/2 cup dry now, and you want to keep the same calories, then you might do:
day 1: drop 1 oz dry; replace with a "fat" 1 oz canned
day 2: drop 2 oz dry; replace with 2.25 oz canned
day 3: drop 3 oz dry; replace with a "fat" 3.5 oz canned
day 4; drop all dry; replace with 4.5 oz canned
 
Thanks for the suggestions on transitioning steps.
I've calculated then that Chester is getting 96 calories a day from a half-can of Purina DM canned, and 158 calories from a half cup of Hill's Science Diet Light dry food, for a total of 254 calories a day (plus any post-pricking treats).
Based on his size, the general rules of thumb work out to him needing ~200 to 400 calories a day, or more narrowly 233-260 calories based on the catinfo benchmarks.

Where can I find the caloric data on the Fancy Feast Classic varieties that were recommended, so I will know how much to switch out the dry food for? I don't see them listed on the Google Docs linked above, or on Binky's list. Their website gives 'guaranteed analysis' %'s but not calories: http://www.fancyfeast.com/wet-cat-food/ ... ken-feast/

Thanks again!
 
Updated info for some flavors of Fancy Feast are on this chart: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmkyagqUb3nudHlidjRqZjYtdmFFcXlzZWt4WUYxYmc#gid=0. You may have to click on the "US Canned food" tab in the bottom right. Otherwise you can find the values on the old canned food chart: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodOld.html. The carb and calorie values are going to be pretty much the same, since Fancy Feast hasn't changed their formulas for the "classic" in years. The only thing, is that it doesn't say "classic" in the list, so you have to go by the name of the food--for example, Classic Tender Beef Feast is listed just as "Tender Beef Feast" on the list.

To give you an idea of how much to feed, Bandit weighs 13.5 lbs (his ideal weight), and needs about 2 1/2 cans (7.5 oz) of Fancy Feast a day. When he's eating a premium food, he generally needs 6 oz or less (because it's usually higher calorie).
 
It's called Classic in Canada too. The can looks like this:

50000-42994.jpg


Some charts may just omit the "classics" part. Purina's website just leads to a bunch of broken links so I can't say much about that.

If you like Fancy Feast and want to save a few bucks, I recommend Special Kitty Select from Walmart. Pretty much identical to FF in ingredients, same can size, and about 10-20 cents cheaper a can, at least where I am :) I buy the chicken dinner, turkey and giblet, and duck delight flavors for Scooter and he LOVES them.
 
Thanks Ry and Scooter - I did a bit more digging at a few stores (Loblaws Superstore and Shoppers Drugmart - OK so probably not the best place to buy special food but I thought I'd check while I was there!) and the flavour names from the 'Classic' list here seemed to line up with the labelling 'pate' there.
I did some further digging, and found this thread from last year also suggesting FF Classic wasn't in Canada, and that 'pate' might be the equivalent?
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?p=433747

Perhaps there are different distribution channels for BC and Ontario (where I am) and the labelling is different?
 
Interesting! Yes I would assume they are the same. I haven't bought FF in about 6 months though, too expensive :lol: Was 73 cents a can there for a while. Special Kitty Select is 50.
 
Chester's Masters said:
I did some further digging, and found this thread from last year also suggesting FF Classic wasn't in Canada, and that 'pate' might be the equivalent?
Click to expand...

The classics are the pates, so yes, I would say these are the same.

If I remember correctly, Canadian Fancy Feast doesn't say classic on the cans (unless it's been imported from the states), but the names should still be the same (e.g. Tender Beef Feast, etc.)
 
Julia & Bandit said:
Chester's Masters said:
I did some further digging, and found this thread from last year also suggesting FF Classic wasn't in Canada, and that 'pate' might be the equivalent?
Click to expand...

The classics are the pates, so yes, I would say these are the same.

If I remember correctly, Canadian Fancy Feast doesn't say classic on the cans (unless it's been imported from the states), but the names should still be the same (e.g. Tender Beef Feast, etc.)
Click to expand...


You guys are correct.... I don't think it says classics but it is only the PATE not the sliced or marinated, etc... I just had a friend pick me up a variety pack and it's all the other varieties not the pate and it's all got gluten in it except for the fish one but it's too high in phosphorus for my kitty.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top