Tootsie's Progress

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AshleyDiamond

AshleyDiamond

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Hey guys :) I decided to start a new thread since my last one was getting pretty long. I'll start posting in this one for awhile with new progress or questions/concerns. Tootsie is responding so well to the insulin and its hard not to get our hopes up that he is heading in that direction we all want. We will continue to just take it one day at a time though and hope for the best. He does have a follow up appointment with his vet this Friday and I must admit I'm a bit nervous. We haven't been back since I took matters into my own hands by changing his diet, home testing and adjusting doses on our own. I'm hoping things go well. I will also be curious just to see what his sugar levels read that day compared to what we are getting. I know they will be higher already due to the environment, but from what I can gather our vet doesn't check the levels with a human or pet meter. Every time they have taken blood from his neck area and checked that way? I'm hoping it isn't to much of a dramatic difference and we walk out of there feeling good.

So far today Tootsie tested 122 for his AMPS. We decided to go with .20units which is pretty much the smallest amount I know how do it. He has done good. I've checked him 3 times and he was 94 at +3 96 at +5 and 96 at +8. I'm a little nervous he might be to low again tonight to even get the .20units. I guess we will see in a few hours. If he is under 100 would you suggest skipping again or doing .20units?
 
Don't be nervous. The results speak for themselves. Maybe your vet will learn something. :)

He is doing so well. He has held at 96 for hours now. I think I would want to give the .20 if he is there or higher. He goes lower at night, but the drop from the .20 has not been very big, and it still allows for more of a drop without getting too low. Of course, you know the drill... you would have to monitor and be prepared just in case he decided to go deep sea diving. His pancreas sure seems to be doing something. If you can just give him a nudge to help keep him in these healthy numbers awhile, he may get to where he no longer needs the nudge at all. :woot:
 
@FurBabiesMama awesome that will be my plan then for this evening. If anything it will be yet another learning curve if he is a little lower and we give the .20u to see how he does. Everything else has continued to improve. He isn't starving for food anymore so he doesn't eat every last drop when its put down (expect for those higher carb wet "snacks" the last two nights lmao) He barely drinks any water. This morning was the first day in probably a week that I seen he must of drank a little from the bowl. All his water intake has come from the extra water I put in his food. He is using the bathroom good. He's never been much of a playful kitty but we did play a little last night with one of his toys. And he has gained his weight back. Yay!
 
I think today was a MUCH nicer curve. Tootsie probably felt better without that crazy dive into lime green! I think 0.20 is good to stick with for a few days as long as he is high enough for a shot...and we can see if that helps level him out and keep things from being quite so dramatic!
 
That's looking like a much better dose. :) Hopefully you and Tootsie will both get some sleep tonight!
 
Everything went great today with this dose. I just checked him again at +5 for tonight and he was 74. I don't think I have to worry about checking him anymore for tonight. Now I'm just wondering if I should try this dose if he hits double digits for his preshots or what? This dose is hardly anything as it is in the syringe and I haven't practiced or even know how to really go any lower if I need to. I'm a little stumped there. If he starts giving double digit preshot numbers should I see what he does during the day with no insulin now? I know now 100 and above the .20 is a great dose, just don't know about anything lower than that 100.
 
Given how he’s doing on 0.2, if he’s under 100 I would skip. Especially if you’re gone at work.

There is a 0.1 and “drop” but with a short term cat they are often unnecessary.
 
I would be home to monitor but I don't want to force him to go to those dangerous levels if it isn't necessary? I mean he very well may be at or above the 100 mark for his preshots for awhile, and I will continue the .20u, but I'm always looking ahead and at the what ifs, lol.
 
I personally would skip if he was under 100 too. It's possible to give doses when under that number, but that's usually not necessary unless you've got a long term diabetic who just isn't going down enough during cycles.
 
Okay I need some advice. Tootsie started low this morning and we skipped his shot as suggested. He did rise a little through the day (not horribly) and now I just did his preshot and he is back down to 91. Do I continue to skip his dose or do I try to give him .2u?

@Djamila @FurBabiesMama @Rachel
 
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Oh, man.. he is not making this easy.. hmmm... I am thinking about what @Djamila said in your last thread: "...you want his numbers to stay under 120, with most numbers between 50-80 before you relax. When a cat is headed towards a quick remission like this, you'll likely go to micro-doses (0.25u, 0.1u, drop) and may need to stop giving shots even a little above those ideal numbers, but within a day or two, you should see the numbers settle into the greens."

I 'think' I would be afraid not to give a micro dose since he got to at least 133 today, and 91 is awfully close to the 102 you had last night, and that dosing worked out. I would just want to help him a little until I was absolutely sure he was able to keep it going on his own. Are you not able to dose a tiny bit less than 0.2??

As I said before, I have not gone through remission, so others may have insights that make them disagree with me. :)
 
See the way my husband and I look at the U100 syringe is right now we are pulling it back to the first tiny half mark which is technically 0.5u but since its Prozinc its a .20 dose. Well the syringe has that long first line that is actually considered 0. If you look at the syringe the distance between that 0 long line and the first tiny 1/2 mark line is about the same distance. So couldn't I drawl back insulin to the 0 line and that would be considered like .10u? Or would it be considered something else?

I hope that all makes since in the way I'm trying to explain it.
 
AshleyDiamond said:
Well the syringe has that long first line that is actually considered 0. If you look at the syringe the distance between that 0 long line and the first tiny 1/2 mark line is about the same distance. So couldn't I drawl back insulin to the 0 line and that would be considered like .10u? Or would it be considered something else?
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That's exactly right. As for shooting tonight, it's totally up to you. I think it's fine if you skip. I also think it will probably be okay if you give a micro-dose. If you give a dose, there is always the chance that Tootsie will drop and you'll need to stay up again. So it really comes down to how much sleep you need tonight. If you can and are willing to stay up, I think I might try that teeny dose. If you're tired (it doesn't look like you've been sleeping much), I'd skip and take the night off.

Skipping right now isn't going to hurt him. It may add a day or two to your journey, but won't set him back in any significant way. So it's really up to you. Most of the time, we say to skip on a green if the cat is under three months.
 
You might find it helpful to look at @Glassgoblin's spreadsheet to see how those last few days might look. She skipped on the greens in the last few days on insulin, and her last blue was a 174. When they're done, they're done.
 
@Djamila I went with that teeny tiny dose at the "0" line. So I am correct then as to say that is a .10u when I pull back to that first long line? I just want to make sure that is the correct way of getting that specific dose and I can record it as that in my spreadsheet.
 
To be honest, any of the microdoses are approximations. @Kris & Teasel can give you the science-y explanation if you want it, but it's nearly impossible to be accurate at that level. So yes, you can call it 0.1u, but there isn't exactly a "correct" way to name something that's so goofy. :)
 
Lol okay. Well I will call that my .10u then. I also have looked over @Glassgoblin spreadsheet before you mentioned it. I seen how her last dose was the .2u like I was doing before she just stopped. I just didn't know how to feel today starting out with that green number, skipping the dose, but then hit those blues during his cycle and then back down to the green for his pmps.
 
@FurBabiesMama lmaoooo! I really do hope he is good by then just for my sanity while I'm away but if it doesn't happen then there's nothing I can do. I am more worried right now about his vet appointment on Friday. I'm scared he is going to skyrocket or something and then not recover from it. Or I'm going to not sound like I know what I'm doing once I walk in there and explain all these changes I've made since the last visit. I would cancel but I feel like I should head in at least once so they do know all the changes, I can see how he test with the way they do things, and so I can continue to get the insulin as needed.
 
Oh my....I remember my first vet visit after Sam went into remission. I was furious with my vet and told him that if I'd followed his advice he would have killed my cat! My vet is the one who should have been nervous. :nailbiting: After I got that off my chest we actually had a really good conversation and he has continued as our vet. He's been great to work with over the past few years, and when Sam came out of remission, he was wonderful. I think we've both learned a lot over the past few years about feline diabetes. :cat: And just remember that even if Tootsie does run high in the office, it is just stress. Your home numbers are the accurate measure.
 
Is the vet going to be doing a fructosamine test or just testing the blood for glucose level at that moment? If they are going to be doing a fructosamine, I would reschedule the visit. Those test are impacted by levels over the two to three weeks prior to when they are taken. So, I would want to wait until he was in the great numbers longer. If the vet is just doing an on the spot glucose testing, it only matters what his level is at that moment.

It's not like you have to tell them every little step you have taken.. right?? You did research and found that a high-protein, low-carb wet food diet is best and that home monitoring is important for safety, so you did both. Because you were monitoring, you saw when the dose was too much and had to be lowered for safety.. and aren't you glad you did or your cat would have been put in danger?!. What time of day is your appt Friday? I am really hoping you get to skip the dose or two before the visit so you can say he has not had any insulin at all in X hours. Then, the vet will see his good, healthy number and have to acknowledge that the steps you have taken were the right ones. So, nanny nanny boo boo! :p
 
@FurBabiesMama I believe we are just doing a regular glucose test. At his last appointment is when they did the fructosamine test and he was in the high 600s. That's the day we switched him to Prozinc. When he was first diagnosed we didn't want to change his diet because it was what he had been put on when he had issues with urinary blockages. He never ended up bad enough to have surgery for it, but he was hospitalized for 1 week with a catheter to drain everything and then that's when they put him on the prescription hills c/d (which did help with that issue) Anyways I was terrified to switch him because of that. Honestly I still have a little fear that it will happen again. My appointment is at 11:15am on Friday so if he does have a shot that morning he will be at about +4.5 when they do the test. I feel like they told me under 200 was normal range for cats when I was there, so even so they should see major improvement even of he test higher that day. I could have that number wrong but I swear that's what they told us.
 
Have you read around on this site: https://catinfo.org/

The vet that wrote it talks a lot about urinary blockages and food. It might make you feel better to read what she has to say about it. Just add lots of extra water to the food to keep things flowing freely. :smuggrin:
 
@Djamila I'll read around some more on there. I do add quite a bit of water to his food these days so that's good. Its pretty much the only water intake he gets anymore. I think he did pretty decent tonight on that tiny dose. I'm going to test one more time before heading to bed just to make sure he doesn't drop anymore. I'm so curious as to what he will give us tomorrow morning.
 
Eek! Fingers crossed. Any suggestions with how many times I should be checking throughout the cycle when I see these green numbers? I've looked at some people who went OTJ and some didn't check at all during the cycle, some did a lot, some maybe once?
 
I think that while you are at this stage, it would be helpful to have some mid-cycle data. @Rachel suggested testing when a food spike would normally be ending to see if he drops back down on his own.
 
Not at all. If no injection was given, he's perfectly safe. Cats in remission/non-diabetics will often run in the 40's quite safely. We only worry about 40's if an injection has been given since we don't want them to go below that.
 
Oh, as for mid-cycles, they are not required when no shot is given, but they help to give an indication if the cat is really ready for the OTJ trial. So often you'll see people do some mid-cycles the first few days, and then drop to just PS tests. Other folks are more curious and so used to frequent testing that the human needs some time to ween themselves off of the data ;) so they will test more often. It's totally up to you.
 
@Djamila phew! I thought I had seen those numbers were okay if no insulin given but wasn't 100%. Its also normal for his eating to have decreased a little bit right? He is still eating, just not hardly as much as before. Like just now for example, I typically put down his snack and he walked up to it and then walked away and went back to his cat tower. I did notice this morning that he didn't finish his breakfast, so my husband juiced it up again before he left, I seen it, and then when I woke up you could tell he got into it again for a few bites.

@FurBabiesMama lol you crack me up!
 
Yes, they are typically overeating at the point of diagnosis because diabetes keeps them from absorbing nutrients from their food. So they eat more and more trying to compensate. Once they are in healthy numbers, their appetites usually decrease dramatically. You want to monitor his weight and make sure he stays in healthy ranges and that he is still eating. I would say a "typical" amount is about two fancy feast cans/day, but it can vary widely by the size, age, activity level, etc. of an individual cat, and how many treats they get. ;)
 
@Djamila he is definitely still getting around that much a day forsure. Last time he was at the vet he was down to 11.5 pounds. We have been using our scale at home by weighing ourselves, and then weighing with him in our arms and doing the math. Well Monday doing it that way he was 15 pounds. I guess I'll see how accurate we are tomorrow at his appointment. His activity level is SLEEP lmao.
 
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Is 15 pounds okay for him? Make sure to ask at the vet how much he should weigh based on his breed and size (if you haven't already). Then you'll know how to adjust his food to keep him at a healthy weight.

Oh my gosh! He looks so much like Atty! (my non-diabetic cat). What a handsome boy! Dont' you just want to bury your face in that belly? :smuggrin:
 
I really don't know if that's okay for him. I'll have to ask his current vet tomorrow. I just called his previous vet to ask what he weighed when he was last in there and he was 15.88. I know when we started taking him to his current vet he started out a little lower than that, but he also was diagnosed with the diabetes and started losing at every visit. The nurse that I just talked to said his normal weight would be 10-11 pounds (eek) But I will ask his current vet tomorrow.
 
Hey guys! Maybe you could help me figure something out with Toot. Quite some time ago Tootsie went to jump up on our bed and he started howling and holding his back leg up. I would rub his leg, foot and hip area when he did this. He could jump down fine but would howl when he jumped up. It went away after a day or two and with us trying to keep him off of it as much as possible. At the time I had just cut his back toe nails and didn't think anything of it. Fast forward again some time later it happened again and it lasted only a day or so. Once again I had just did his nails a day or so before. So I thought maybe this was the cause of it and decided not to do them for awhile again. When we first took him to the vet to figure out why he had been drinking so much (pre diabetes diagnosis) I let them know this had happened and he felt all on his hind legs and all over and said everything felt normal and okay. It didn't happen again for a long time. Then randomly a few weeks ago it happened again when he jumped onto our bed (no nail cut this time) He howled out for quite sometime that night. Normally he would only cry when he first jumped and then when he laid down didn't make another peep, until jumping up again. He didn't do it again the very next day and was fine. There hasn't been another episode of that until just a few minutes ago. He woke up, had a snack, walked around the house a bit then came to jump on the couch with me and he howled and was holding his leg up again. (This time I did cut his nails but over a week ago so it can't be from that) I can't figure out where it's actually hurting him. His foot, leg, or the hip part. I put him up on his tower and now he's sleeping again. I don't really know what to think of this or what I can do to help? Any ideas?
 
Oh, that is pitiful. Mia had a limp awhile back, and it just broke my heart. Still do not know what it was.

Is it always the same leg he holds up?
 
@FurBabiesMama I think so but not 100%. It never lasts more than a couple days, but I just wish I knew what it was. Not sure if he just lands on it wrong when he jumps or what. He did get a cat tower for the first time in his life when he was a little over 10. And he took a couple spills from jumping onto it lol. So I don't know if its something to do with that either.
 
Maybe the poor little man needs some steps. I have steps at the foot of my bed and next to a window seat that is a little high. I also have a cat box thingy next to the tower so they can jump from the floor to that then to the tower.

This is the box I have. I have a bed inside of it, so sometimes they lay inside. The top has a cushion where they can also lay, and it is the perfect height for them to easily jump on then jump on the tower. https://www.wayfair.com/pet/pdp/sauder-185-interactive-scratching-board-sau2549.html

These are the stairs I have. They are SUPER nice. I got mine from Wayfair, but it does not look like they have them anymore. I have a 4 step and a 3 step with carpeted treads. The girls love them. They are so cute walking up the steps, and they also like to just sit on them. http://www.premierpetsteps.com/products.html


I do not know how you can really know what is wrong without an x-ray. If you have felt all over it and nothing feels off, and he does not respond like any particular part hurts, maybe you can at least try to determine if it is always the same leg. Then, if it comes to an x-ray, you will know which one to x-ray.
 
I love the box!

I've also had to add a step up to the counter and one to the bed (my bed is pretty high) in the past couple of months as my gentlemen are slowly showing their age. They can still get up on their own most of the time, but they each had a couple of misses so I decided it was time to help them out.

If it's a tendon/ligament type thing, does that show up in an x-ray?
 
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