Too high

Mphair84

Mphair84

Member Since 2018
I feel like I'm struggling to find a good dose for my cat. 2.25 kept putting my cat in the blues but I had to keep adjusting the dose because at times he'd be too low. So I dropped it to two units however, he's pretty high in the mornings. Those numbers are making me uncomfortable. I'm pretty sure this morning he had a snack which helped add to the high number but not always on other mornings.

As much as I try not to I'm starting to feel overwhelmed like I'm missing something. What can I be doing better to help my cat?

Some extra eyes from experienced Prozinc users would be appropriated.
 
Another thing I think about is at night he got in the greens. Another dose may make him too low, but then again, I may be over stressing this.
 
I asked you this on your old thread:
Djamila said:
You are getting a really good insulin response, but Tuffy sure is a bouncy one! Did he just start insulin in December when you joined? Or has he been on Prozinc longer than that?
Click to expand...
 
I'm sorry, I missed it. I'm trying not to be nervous.

I just started testing in December. When I joined I took matters in my own hands and started low and slow. I started at .25 I believe. However, I was giving him insulin for a year before under instruction of our vet. I started at 2 u, then upped it to 2.5 in a year.
 
Yes. In fact, the vet's were going to increase to 3 units and then I objected which is why it's 2 1/2.
I feel like I'm heading in the right direction with his insulin, but he's so bouncy I feel like I'm missing something.

I think he eats before preshot and I'm missing it. I will pick up food better at night. It's hard because I'm sleeping. He also gets Young Again Zero, will that affect his BG?
 
Yes, YAZ can impact BG. They say the carbs are indigestible and will just pass through, but from reading on here it seems that from bag to bag it can vary.

Here is why I was asking those questions: I’m thinking it’s time to consider switching to Lantus.

We don’t recommend switching if the cat has been on less than six months, but you’re past that. And Tuffy is super bouncy. Bouncy cats bounce no matter what, but they bounce less on Lantus.

Do you know if your vet would be willing? How would you feel about it?
 
The vet doesn't have Lantus, I already asked. The only insulin they have is Prozinc. Could I get it from a different provider with vet approval? I can talk to my vet about it, but I'm not quite sure how "onboard" they'd be. But frankly, I will do what's best for my cat, with or without them.

Obviously, I want the best for my cat. The though crossed my mind of when I would know if I should switch or not. He can be good, but then his highs can get so high.

Since I started home testing myself it hasn't been 6 months. Should I wait till then, or does that not matter?

Like, could I be doing better? How can I help this situation?

At night I sleep and I don't always pick up food so he doesn't eat 2 hrs prior. If he ate and was alright high then that would spike him up more. I can be better at picking up his food at night. I don't understand why he gets do much higher now than what it use to be so I feel like I must be doing something different.

Could I give his insulin at 6:30pm instead of 6, or maybe make it closer to 7pm. I don't think that would make that much of a difference in the morning.
 
A lot of people buy it from Marks' Marine Pharmacy in Canada. They will contact your vet and your vet just sends them the prescription, then they mail you the insulin. They're super helpful and will walk you through the process.

Since Tuffy isn't new at this, his spreadsheet really shouldn't look so much like a bag of skittles. When an insulin is working well for a cat, even though numbers will go up and down, they should have at least some consistency. The "skittles" spreadsheets are usually new cats, or cats who are still eating carbs (either dry food, high carb treats, or high carb wet foods).

How much insulin do you have left in your current vial? If you still have a fair amount, I'd say maybe try picking up the food and see if that makes a difference (it never did for Sam so I usually let him eat, but other cats definitely react and can't have food during that last two hours). Then you can spend some time reading over on the Lantus forum and make a decision later.

If you're close to the end of the vial, you might think about reaching out to your vet and having a conversation.

Before you do anything though, let's see if anyone else chimes in with some thoughts on if it's time to try switching....?
 
I agree with Djamila. Home testing just shows us where Tuffy is at these days...and it shows that he's all over the place a lot of the times. You've remained fairly consistent with dosing, done plenty of tests, and moved doses as needed and it still shows that Tuffy bounces around a lot. I'm not saying Lantus will be a miracle cure, but it's possible that it would help give a flatter curve.

I'd say that if you have insulin left, do keep going with it and just think about Lantus. We're not saying you have to switch. You can stay here and keep going with Prozinc and we will continue to help out and do our best to get Tuffy in better numbers. But it never hurts to know about your options, even if you don't switch. You might consider posting a thread over there. Let them know you're not ready to switch yet, but you're considering it possibly for later and just ask or any advice or suggestions on whether they think it might help. That way, you'll have some information in your arsenal. :)
 
Thank you. So I picked up the food at 3 am. His number seem to go down a little bit so I hope it did help. I'm going to keep picking up his food and seeing if that makes a difference. Yesterday I noticed that he snuck a kibble of dog food - tried to. I caught him and he stopped.

Unfortunately, I just got this vile and Prozinc, so it's so full. However, that does give me time to reevaluate the situation and look over my options. I will do a thread when I have time hopefully tonight on the Lantus thread.

I'm assuming that I'd have to start over with insulin and go back to .25? what do I have to gradually decrease the insulin that he's on now before changing over?

I definitely will check out the Lantus threads and talk to my vet once I get more information.

I guess for now I will keep doing what I'm doing picking up his food and trying to monitor. I'm going to do a better curve this weekend possibly even Friday.

I might end up staying on this dose for a longer time until he tends to even out. Do you think that's a good idea?
 
That's great that picking up the food seemed to help this morning (although I know how hard that can be on the human!) It may be worth investing in a timed feeder that will just rotate to an empty slot at the two hour cut-off so you don't have to wake up. The PetSafe5 is a good one. I bought another one first, and the dishes were so deep that my cats didn't like it. The PetSafe has more reasonable dishes for kitty whiskers.

And it's possible that you just discovered the cause of the bouncing - if he's sneaking dog food, that is enough to do it. Even just one or two pieces on occasion could easily explain the black numbers and unpredictable dives. For carb sensitive kitties, anything can send them bouncing to the moon and back. And once they ingest the carbs, it can take a couple of days to settle back down. So if he got one piece every 2-3 days, that could possibly explain what we're seeing.

Might it be possible to train your dog to supervised meal times? Cats are notoriously sneaky and clever, so it would probably be easier to train the dog to a new routine than to try to "watch" the kibble bowl and think Tuffy won't find a way around anyhow. I was holding my dinner plate yesterday and when I reached for the phone Sam managed to swipe a bite. I was part way through the phone call before I realized he was gnawing on a bite of my steak!
 
What a sneaky cat you have!!! I will admit, I'm more worried about my cat eating my food than my dog. Once I left my plate on the couch, perfect for my dog to nab it. I left the room just to come back to the CAT eating my plate while my dog laid on the floor watching my cat eat my food! Lol

I will look into an automatic feeder. My issue is I need a smaller one because of the stand the cat food is on. I don't have a location that I can safely place it on the floor. I live in a small trailer. But I will see what I can find. Until then, I will make sure I pick up the cat food sometime in the night ( I usually get up at least once for whatever reason).

As for the dog food I'm sure I can work something out. I can pick it up at night when I can't watch. He USUALLY eats in the morning right before I leave for work. I THINK he may just grab a kibble in the evening and not so much in the morning or afternoon. I definitely can monitor it better.

Now that I think I know the cause ( possibly) I feel like I know what to watch for. I will see where the numbers will lead.

Am I correct to say that Prozinc doesn't store insulin like Lantus but it still stays in their system for a bit. Or does it store a little, but not like Lantus?
 
I was just looking at the two-compartment feeders for you since those are smaller, but it looks like those lids will pop open automatically, but not close automatically (which is what you need). :oops: Maybe just try waking up to take food away for a week, and see if it makes a difference. Then if it does we can brainstorm a way to make it sustainable (because waking up in the middle of the night to take food away isn't really going to work long-term. You need your sleep too! o_O

In cats Lantus lasts 10-18 hours. Prozinc lasts 10-14 hours. So they both have overlap, but Lantus will typically last longer which is what makes the nice flat curve, and that longer overlap is what makes it preferred to do slower dose changes with Lantus whereas we can move doses every few cycles if we need to with Prozinc.
 
So I just tested him, (15 minutes early) and honestly think that's what it was. He must have been sneaking either cat or dog food in the mornings.

It was very nice to see a yellow number this morning. Also, today snowed and my work is cancelled so I will be able to do a curve!!!! I'm looking forward to see what his numbers hold!
 
Wow...that is a nice AMPS for TuffyKitty! Fingers crossed that's all it was and he'll settle down. Sneaky little thief!
 
So basically today Tuffy just stayed in the 200's. I wish I had more time to monitor him. I'm going to try again Friday.

However, today at PMPS he moved as I was injecting and he didn't get his full dose. I THINK he got most of it, but I have no idea how much. I know some spilled because it did in fact, smell like Band-Aids.

This does suck on so many levels because I wanted to get his numbers straighten out. Do you think I should give him his morning shot a little early or something?
 
Awww those furshots (or partial furshots) do suck. But we've all been there! Don't let it bother you too much.

That is interesting today...sometimes we do see a flat cycle of yellows before a drop, so that's a possibility. Could also just be that he was just having a weird day. Just test when you can and don't worry too much when you can't. YOu do a GREAT job getting tests in, so we have good data to go off of when you can't.
 
What do you mean:

"That is interesting today...sometimes we do see a flat cycle of yellows before a drop, so that's a possibility" ?

(Plus, I don't know how to reference a reply, hence the copy and paste.)

Do you mean he could go lower in numbers or I should lower his lower his dose?
 
Mphair84 said:
(Plus, I don't know how to reference a reply, hence the copy and paste.)
Click to expand...

Drag your mouse over the sentence you want to reference and highlight it. Then a little "reply" bubble will appear on the right side of the line. Click on it and it appears in the text box where you can post. (took me for.ev.er. to figure that out when I joined here! :rolleyes:)

He won't go lower now since it was a fur shot. If he had the whole dose though, sometimes a kitty will stay flat and yellow, and then in the next cycle they'll suddenly dive. There are plenty of times when it doesn't happen, but it happens enough that folks watch for it. Especially if flat and yellow isn't normal for a particular cat.

You don't need to change anything at this point. Just start back with the regular dose in the morning and carry on. And as Rachel said, don't stress about the fur shot. Just enjoy having the night off from poking and get some good rest!
 
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Djamila said:
Drag your mouse over the sentence you want to reference and highlight it. Then a little "reply" bubble will appear on the right side of the line. Click on it and it appears in the text box where you can post
Click to expand...

OMG! I did it! Thanks!

He actually wasn't AS high as I inticipated, however, I guess "normal high" for him. Tomorrow I have off and a bunch to do, but I think I can get some more numbers in the day! I'm really hoping this weekend he evens out.
 
know the cat ate one dog kibble yesterday because I forgot to pick it up before work, but I was doing good the day before. :( However, he was in the reds this morning, and yesterday he was in the pinks.

I would like to up the dose, but I don't want to do it too much and have to back track and readjust and mess up his numbers more.

Here is my idea. Right now he's on a "fat" 2u. It's slightly over the 2u line. Now, can I add another slight increase so it's just under 2.25? Or would that not actually do anything? Am I better off just doing 2.25 or should I still wait?

I haven't posted about switching yet because I was hoping that miraculously enough, he'd "fix himself" if I prevented dog kibbles and monitored food better.
 
Mphair84 said:
know the cat ate one dog kibble yesterday because I forgot to pick it up before work, but I was doing good the day before. :( However, he was in the reds this morning, and yesterday he was in the pinks.

I would like to up the dose, but I don't want to do it too much and have to back track and readjust and mess up his numbers more.

Here is my idea. Right now he's on a "fat" 2u. It's slightly over the 2u line. Now, can I add another slight increase so it's just under 2.25? Or would that not actually do anything? Am I better off just doing 2.25 or should I still wait?

I haven't posted about switching yet because I was hoping that miraculously enough, he'd "fix himself" if I prevented dog kibbles and monitored food better.
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If you've been giving a "fat" 2u you can record that on your SS as "F2 u" so it's clear to others who look at it. In my opinion it's impossible to measure a skinny 2.25 u. I'd go to 2.25 u.
 
For carb sensitive kitties, one kibble is enough. They can have very strong reactions to even a little bit of contraband. Tuffy is going to be a little volatile no matter what, but it does seem like you had a couple of less-volatile cycles when he didn't get the kibble, so I think you're on the right track with that. I agree with Kris, if you're already at a fat 2, go ahead and go up to 2.25. When you run out of u40's, you might consider switching to u100's so you can make tiny changes in dose with greater consistency. For now though, I think the bump up should be fine.
 
Okay. I will go back and mark the "fat 2". I just stocked up on the U40's, so it might be awhile.

Will very small increments make such a difference in his numbers?

I will go to 2.25 tonight. I am aiming to get some more numbers tonight.

The goal is to use an amount that I can give a full does without adjustments for morning and night. It usually gets squarly around 2.25-2.5, so I will proceed with caution.
 
Mphair84 said:
Okay. I will go back and mark the "fat 2". I just stocked up on the U40's, so it might be awhile.

Will very small increments make such a difference in his numbers?

I will go to 2.25 tonight. I am aiming to get some more numbers tonight.

The goal is to use an amount that I can give a full does without adjustments for morning and night. It usually gets squarly around 2.25-2.5, so I will proceed with caution.
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Yes, very small increments can affect BG in some cats. Have a look at the doses on Teasel's SS.
 
Yup, Sam usually gets dose changes at 0.1u at a time. If I do bigger increases he gets NDW (New Dose Wonkiness) and ends up high and flat for a couple of cycles. So we move by baby steps over here.

Part of the squirreliness you've seen is probably also connected to their kibble-theft. Carbs make them bouncy. Keeping tight control on that helps. It doesn't make it go away completely (as you can see on Teasel's spreadsheet), but it does tighten up the range of numbers at least a little bit.
 
It depends. Some people have had good experience with YAZ. Other people have found that it raises BG, or causes intestinal problems (which can also raise BG). So it could be part of the problem, or it could be just fine. The only way to really know would be to eliminate it for a while and see if anything changes. If not, you could resume it.
 
I might try that just to clear my mind. Or cut down more. I raised his does, so we will see how that goes. He was at 84 when I left. I'm going to check him as soon as I get home.

If I gave him just the YAZ, then tested after an HR will that let me know if it raises his BG?
 
WOW! Looks like raising the dose did a little something today! Definitely want to keep an eye on him tonight...make sure he isn't dropping fast and early.
 
Trust me, I am. :)
Not going to lie, when he was in the 50's I did give him a few carb treats because I was leaving and I didn't want to take chances, so I'm making sure I'm paying attention tonight.
 
It's possible that the 57 yesterday was an initial dramatic reaction to the tiny increase. If you can monitor today try keeping the 2.25 u to see how he does. He might settle down on it.
 
I'm able to monitor today and tomorrow. I'm hoping that helps. Plus, I feel I've been careless with the amount of YAZ he gets because the no carbs. He gets more at night for snacks. However, I've cut back and I'm hoping that helps. He was lower this morning and I had to give less. I'm wondering if it's because he didn't get the usual dry. I feel like I may have to lower the does again if it doesn't even out . Just waiting and seeing. I hope the monitoring today and tomorrow will help figure out what's best for this finicky cat.
 
Yup, that was a long cycle last night. Looks like nadir and PMPS were right around the same time. Have we talked about getting u100 syringes? do you have a walmart near you? (they sell them the cheapest). Tuffy is being fussy about his dose right now. 2.25u is looking like a little too much, but the 2u wasn't doing it for him.
 
WOW! What a long cycle. I agree that it may be time to get some u100s and see if you can really fine-tune the dose. Some cats just need that and it's a lot easier to do on the u100s.
 
I tell ya, this cat....lol. EVERY time it gets 2.25 he bounces. I'm nervous about the difference between U40 and U100.

I was going to give his PMPS earlier because he's so high right now and see if it will even out tomorrow. I cut back the dry. I have tomorrow off, so another day of monitoring.

I was thinking depending how tomorrow goes I may just lower it again. I will check at Walmart or Rite Aid and pick up some U100.
 
Yikes. That is high. ow early are you thinking of shooting? The problem with shooting early is that then it will be 13, or 14 hours (or however early you shoot) until the next shot, and that's a long time to wait for our sugar cats. Unless you can also shoot a little early in the morning and walk it back to the regular time?
 
I shot 45 minutes early, still within the hour, but I can adapt it if need be tomorrow because I have it off. I'm also going to monitor more tonight. Taking advantage of these days off I have.

I started panicking, and second guessing myself thinking WHAT IF I accidentally gave him 2.5 and not the 2.25 the first initial day. Not that I think I did, but he did seem to last way longer the first night. It's like I'm just looking for a simple explanation for his wackier numbers. I feel like in the beginning he was more evened out and I struggle with comprehending the uneven numbers.
 
So I just realized what I did. I gave his insulin sooner AFTER giving his insulin later this morning. I'm an idiot!!! How bad did I mess this up?
 
So his shot this morning was at 7am, then I shot a little before 6 this pm. It was a small does this morning and it seemed to wear off quick, so he got high. Then I gave him the PMPS earlier.
 
oooooh! That's fine. Don't worry about it. The bigger thing to watch is how many hours from now until AMPS. The dose this morning was small enough that it's not really a concern. You're fine. :bighug:
 
Well, technically it was 5:08 pm and 7:09 so it was 2 hours, but yes. What exactly does that mean?
 
It means he could be diving. You'll want to get another test around +3 if you can to see if he's going to level off or if you're going to have a pajama party* :smuggrin:

*pajama party = when you stay up late because your cat decides to dive and you have to keep steering - usually involves posting and making other people stay up with you :p
 
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