Tonka coming down fast

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jmalasiuk

jmalasiuk

Member Since 2014
So, after a day of rebounding, now Tonka is coming down fast. He was 12.8 (230) before his evening shot (after coming down very gradually all day), and now, at +3 he's at 2.1 (38). I've just fed him about 1/6 cup of the dry DM food we still have kicking around (~30% carbs, I think) to keep him from going any further. He seemed quite anxious to eat it and is looking for more. I'll be testing him again in a half hour to see what direction he's going. Any thoughts on where to go from here, other than to keep monitoring and feeding as necessary? He'll probably just rebound anyway, but I don't want to take any chances.
 
dry food takes longer to kick in than wet do you have any HC wet or a little honey/syrup to rub on his gums if he won't lick it up
 
I have honey and corn syrup. I'll see if he'll take that from me. Just a bit at a time, from what I've read on the site, and keep testing every 15-20 minutes (just re-read it) - is that correct?
 
You need to give him a couple drops of liquid syrup - Karo, honey, maple, anything you have. Put a couple drops in his mouth NOW. The dry takes too long.

Do you have any high carb canned? Or, can you make a quick gravy with some flour, water, and a skillet?

Its 1-2 teaspoons of high carb
Wait 20-30 minutes
Test
Repeat if still low.
 
I agree with Serryn, Wet food gets into the blood stream faster. Either gravy from high carb food or a drop or two of syrup (maple or corn syrup) on his regular food. I'd test 20 minutes after he ate. That's early in the cycle to be so low.
 
He's not terribly interested in the corn syrup, but I mixed a teaspoon in with a spoonful of his usual wet food and he's eating that up quite happily now.
 
Cats can't taste sweet, so that works.

Wendy - can you stay up with them to steer?
 
You don't need the 911 icon. Serryn and I are up. We'll be waiting for your next test.

By the way, the new dose tomorrow morning is 2.25U. Tonka has earned his first reduction.
 
Thanks for the suggestions folks. I don't know how to edit the header of the post, unfortunately, but I'll keep testing and feeding him until he's in good numbers for a while. He's enjoying the syrup on his wet food.
 
You only need a drop or two of syrup, but that's OK. I'll stay with you for a while to make sure he's coming up and safe.
 
Okay - thanks so much, everyone. He's not showing any symptoms right now and doesn't seem particularly concerned. But he has hit levels below 2.0 a couple times and didn't show any signs then either. Just tested him since it's been about 20 minutes since he had the dry food: He's down at 1.8 (32) now. Could just be the variation in the meter, but I'm thinking I should keep feeding him a teaspoon or two of food with a drop of syrup at a time
 
Sorry I'm at work slight case of bossus interuptus!

Yes keep up with another couple of tsp of HC - you can just give the gravy part if it has it and another couple of drops of syrup re-test in 20-30 mins

You don't want to be complacent about numbers in the 30s even if kitty has seen them and been fine before. I understand kitty can go from fine to convulsing just like that
 
You don't want to fill him up, in case you need him hungry later, but you really need to get him up. That's too low. A couple drops of syrup with food again. I'd test again in 20 minutes.
 
Yup: I'm just giving him a bit at a time, with the syrup. Will test him again in 15 or 20 minutes.
 
Very impressive Tonka....now it's time to come up some!!

Happy to see you have Wendy and Vyktors Mum with you tonight since I have to be out early in the morning with my DM
 
Still at 1.8. Gave him another few drops of corn syrup in a another teaspoon of food. I made up some chicken broth gravy which he didn't seem interested in, but just now he had a little lick, so maybe I'll use that for the next few feedings, if it's less likely to fill him up.
 
He is being stubborn. We'd like to get him over 2.8 (50) as soon as possible. For your hypo kit for next time, you might want to pick up some high carb foods with gravy. The Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers have a lot of gravy. I'm currently using Merck Cowboy Cookout, but there are others around that work well too. The FF gravy lovers gravy has wheat in it for carbs, the Cowboy Cookout has potatoes.

Is Tonka still on antibiotics? Just wondering if that's a factor in the diving.
 
Jeepers Tonka you've earned that reduction, come up already. the dry food doesn't even seem to have kicked in at all yet! keep doing what you're doing.

Just to be prepared - are you ready to run out the door to the vet if necessary (how far away is it?), you'll want to take the syrup with you if it comes to that to keep administering on the way - orally or via the other end...
 
I agree with Serryn. If he's not up the next test, I'd think about syringing some syrup in or rubbing it on his gums. It's always good to know where the closest ER vet it.
 
He finished the antibiotics Saturday morning. His bloodwork from last week showed normal white and red blood cell counts, so if he had an infection, it looks like it had cleared up several days ago.
Emergency vet clinic is about 15-20 minutes drive away at this time of night.
He's just sitting there as cool and calm as can be. He's too used to seeing mom dealing with her own blood sugar crashes, I guess.

At least with the dry food in his system, once he does start to rise, that should keep him up there a little better.

And he's up to 3.8 now (68). Phew.
 
So, hold off on overfilling him with carbs and test again in another 20-30 minutes? Knowing him, he'll have a marvelous rebound after tonight, but I'll be up for several more hours anyway working, so I'll keep testing him until he's definitely on the way.
 
Yeah!! How about feeding a couple tsps of his regular low carb food, no syrup. That can help them surf or hang out in these numbers. I'd test again in 1/2 hour to make sure he's stable. The syrup can wear off after 1.5 to 2 hours and the numbers could go back down, so you'll have to test at least that long.
 
Sounds good. He just ate a bit of his regular wet food. I'll test him again in another 20 minutes. Mr. Cool has just settled down into his favorite evening napping place, so it looks like he's losing interest in the kitchen (his only symptom of low sugars: wanting food, which does not help when he almost always wants food).

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if the glucagon kits that they make for diabetic emergencies in people work/are safe for cats? Mine is long expired, but if it's something that would work for him, that would be a good thing to replenish and keep in the emergency kit. (It's an injection that you give to force the liver to release sugar when it's not doing it on it's own - we use it on unconscious diabetic people)
 
I don't know of anyone who has used a glucagon kit for cats. At the vet, they hook kitties up to a glucose drip.

Now that he's a little higher, you can go 30 minutes between tests.
 
No idea about the glucagon kit - something to ask your vet maybe.

Can you update his spreadsheet when you can. Because there'll be more than one test in each box you'll have to manually enter the american page and you'll need to manually colour both (the icon in the menu bar at the top that looks like a paint tin being poured has the colours). When there's more than one you put, for example @ 3.5 32 for if it was at the half hour or @ 3.3 32 if it was at the 20 min mark still in the +3 cell. You can see exampls in Vyktor's spreadsheet if you're not sure what I mean.
 
Think I'll ask the vet about that. If it was something that would work, it would be easier to give than trying to get honey or syrup ito an unconscious or convulsing cat while trying to get him to emergency. Hmm.

5.8 now (104), so he's definitely on his way up. Now he'll probably wind up swinging too far in the opposite direction, but I'll stay up and test him every 30 minutes or so for the next couple hours, to be certain.

Thanks so much for your support and help, all. I'll try to figure out the spreadsheet

Considering how far he decided to fall today, should I maybe back him back down to 2 units tomorrow? (assuming that he's high enough to give an injection, which I suspect will be a safe assumption to make) I'll be gone for 12 hours tomorrow during the day.
 
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It looks like the dry food is definitely kicking in. It usually lasts a little longer and he's going to bounce so he should be safe tomorrow.

We normally would decrease by .25U at a time. I was asking about the antibiotics and the timing of him stopping them and diving today seems more than coincidental. I wonder if there was sugar in the antibiotics that was artificially inflating his numbers. You did increase after he started the antibiotics. Normally when cats first see greens, they aren't the really low greens that Tonka saw today. You could decrease to 2.0U if you feel more comfortable with that, but be ready to increase back to 2.25 after 6 cycles (time to clear a bounce), if he isn't coming down into nice numbers by then.
 
those kits for humans are just full of sugary paste that's designed to give a human a quick rush of sugar by mouth...but since most of them are fruit flavored, I doubt if they're work very well in our kitties.

If a cat is seizing, you don't want to try to put anything in it's mouth, but you can give some karo/syrup/honey rectally. The sugars absorb quickly through the linings of the colon.
 
He's up to 121 now, so he should be safe. I'll test him again before I turn in, but I suspect you;re right - he's going to rebound. Plus, I put a lot of sugar into the little guy in a short period so he'll have a lot to wear off.

The antibiotic was AventiCLAV. I'm not sure what the non-active ingredients are in that one.
 
Chris & China said:
those kits for humans are just full of sugary paste that's designed to give a human a quick rush of sugar by mouth...but since most of them are fruit flavored, I doubt if they're work very well in our kitties.

If a cat is seizing, you don't want to try to put anything in it's mouth, but you can give some karo/syrup/honey rectally. The sugars absorb quickly through the linings of the colon.
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No, sorry for the confusion. this isn't a glucose kit - it's a glucagon kit. A prefilled syringe that you mix with a power in a vial and then pull back up into the syringe. From what I remember, when you inject it into an unconcious patient, the "glucagon response" is triggered and the body releases sugars of its own. A kind of forced rebound. Hardly anyone outside of aging diabetics like myself seem to even know about them. I'm not even sure that you can still get them (last once I purchased was over 10 years ago), and I don't know if it would work in a cat, or be safe for them. But it's worth looking into.
 
This thing probably belongs in a museum. More than 10 years - it expired in 2003. I think I must keep it around for weird nostalgic reasons.
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And he's up to 8.6 (155) and looking quite sleepy and tired of getting poked now. I think we should be safe. I'll get one more in about an hour, but I doubt he'll be coming back down now. Thanks everyone
 
You can still get glucagon in the US at least - we have one in the fridge for my 11 year old diabetic step-son. That was issued sometime in the last year. Definitely worth asking a vet if it would work in an emergency - I'd be tempted to get one for Rosa too if it's suitable for use in cats.
 
That's good to know. It was a lifesaver at least once when I was a kid. Was just looking it up and it looks like it's a DNA based thing, so the kits meant for humans might not work in the cats, regardless. But I'm definitely going to ask the next time I talk to my vet.
 
The syrup can wear off after 1.5 to 2 hours and the numbers could go back down, so you'll have to test at least that long
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I think Wendy meant the dry food, syrup wears off very quickly. Not quite sure where we are now but I think one more in an hour probably covers it. That was quite a ride today!
 
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He's been in the safe levels for about 2.5 hours now, and is definitely climbing. The fast sugars will wear off fairly quickly, but slower carbs will stick around, so I think the dry food I fed him at the onset and extra Friskies I fed him around midnight should keep him up even if he wasn't rebounding
 
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