The boys tried the EVO turkey and giblets for the first time last night and scarfed it down like no-body's business. Even Teeger, who has reduced the amount that he feels he needs to eat considerably since they've been switched to wet food. They probably like it because it's so high in fat, but right now, that's probably a good thing for Teegie - old guy is getting a bit bony in the hips. Or it could just be because it was something new Either way, there was some serious eating going on last night. They'd calmed down a bit this morning when they got the other half of the big can - but cold food is never as appealing as when first opened.
EVO seems to be a slightly lower carb food than the DM that they usually get, so maybe that's why Tonka is descending earlier today? Or he just likes to mix things up for fun...
Ahh, thanks Julie. Just fixed that. Clearly under-caffeinated
And Tonka has decided to dive below the 50 mark. He just happily slurped up a spoonful of gravy lovers FF and is now watching birds outside (we have about a dozen sparrows and chickadees fighting over all the seed that they managed to spill out of the feeder that I just filled yesterday) and chasing his catnip banana. He does not appear to be terribly concerned about his lower numbers right now. I'll check him again in 1/2 hour and make sure he's coming up, but it doesn't look like that will be a problem
Since he's still emptying his depot from the last reduction and he did get a slightly lower carb count than usual this morning, should I maybe kjust reduce him to "some" (a drop of) insulin rather than taking him right off the 0.1 units? I've been using the images on the New to Group Forum sticky as an indicator of what to call 0.1 unit, but the reality is that there is still a good couple drops of insulin in the syringe below the "zero" mark, so it's probably more than 0.1 unit, still. Or, given the reasons cited, should I try to keep him at 0.1 for a few more cycles and just make sure to fed him his usual carb count? I think it's more likely the depot effect than the reduced carbs, if anything is helping him see lower numbers than just his pancreas on it's own, since there's really only a very small difference between DM and EVO for carbs, looking at the lists and calculators...
It's hard to be certain from dose to dose, since I'm just eyeballing it. I just drew up what I've been trying to get the last few shots and eased it out drop by drop. Somewhere between 4 and 5 drops, looks like. Actually, probably closer to 5-6 drops, since one of those was a larger than average drop and there was one small air bubble that I flicked from the top before starting.
He's risen nicely from the gravy - I probably overdid it with the amount, he seemed so happy to be licking it up. Probably more like a tbsp rather than the recommended 1 tsp of food - although that did include the chunks of meat since he was acting famished
I've gotten some input from Julie, Marje and Dyana on what next to try with Tonka. He really is racing down the dosing ladder. At this point you have a couple of options. You could try starting an OTJ trial, or you could try seeing if you can get a smaller dose consistently, maybe 2 drops? In either case, I think I'd skip tomorrow morning, given that you are gone all day and can't test. It would actually be interesting to see what he'd do with a skip. It would also make sure any larger depot is done. What do you feel like trying?
I'd like to keep him on at least a bit of insulin for a bit longer, but I'm curious to see how he does with no insulin support too. His vet also suggested skipping a dose if he kept dropping or had a day that he was not eating as much, as an experiment to see what he does with that, so that seems to be the opinion across the board right now. I should be able to do the couple drops dose - I have enough experience with the syringes to squeeze a relatively consistent amount out. Should I start him on that tonight, skip tomorrow (unless he's starting out high for some reason) and see where he is tomorrow at his PMPS time?
Why don't you see where he is tonight and decide whether to dose or not? The danger is him going low and you needing to stay up to manage the numbers. I'd skip tomorrow regardless.
Tonka's looking great! Blackie's also on the Evo, but the Chicken & Turkey flavor, though. The mini meals are helping both of our kitties hang in the lagoon. Nice work!!! You're both doing a wonderful job.
Thanks Wendy (and Julie, Marje and Dyana) - we'll give this a shot. He doesn't seem to feel like rising much this afternoon. Came up a touch after getting a half can of Fancy Feast Turkey and Giblets at +7. How low should be be for you to recommend not injecting him with anything tonight, just in case no-one is watching the thread at PMPS time? I'm thinking if he's still up in the 70s, it'll be a good time to try him on a 2-drop dose, but if he's in the mid 50s like he seems to keep reverting to, I should skip the dose and see what that does to him overnight. In between those, no idea.
Tonka's looking great! Blackie's also on the Evo, but the Chicken & Turkey flavor, though. The mini meals are helping both of our kitties hang in the lagoon. Nice work!!! You're both doing a wonderful job.
Thanks Angela. Sorry - catfood type was an error: they tried the same Evo that you feed (Chicken and Turkey). Just got my flavours mixed up, because the Turkey and Giblets is my boys' usual Fancy Feast pate flavour so I've gotten used to typing that for the turkey
We'll have to see, though, on whether he decides to cooperate or not. I fed them a bit of low carb food a few hours ago, since everyone was snorting around the food dishes acting like they hadn't been fed for a day. I was curious to find out if his pancreas would kick in and bring him back down like it seems to in the morning, but at the tail end of the insulin activity, it looks like it's not quite there yet. Still in the normal levels, but getting close, and this is about the time that he usually starts his second dip if he's going to have one. If he doesn't come down more in the next two hours, I'll give him his microdose and see how that goes for the night. Tomorrow morning will be the no dose test, assuming that he doesn't start off considerably higher for some reason. Sound about right?
Sounds like a plan. He may be bouncing now from that 47 earlier. When kitties get down to these very tiny doses, we'll often suggest a small +8 or +9 snack to see if it brings down the preshot.
He's trying to sneak his way out of the normal numbers. I suppose it could be a wee rebound, but it's been very gradual if that were the case, and didn't seem to onset until after he'd had some low carb food for his mid day mini-meal. I fed him 1/2 can of Fancy Feast pate at about +7 and he's been rising ever since. But I only added that to the plate because he hadn't gotten the extra that I usually give him in the morning that he tends to leave until about that time of day to eat anyway. So I'm not sure why today was different, unless the 0.1 unit is not quite enough and the lows this morning was just him emptying out the depot.
Thoughts on dose for tonight? He's due for his shot in about 1/2 hour.
Sounds like a plan. He may be bouncing now from that 47 earlier. When kitties get down to these very tiny doses, we'll often suggest a small +8 or +9 snack to see if it brings down the preshot.
Ah, posted just as you were posting. He did get a snack around +7 and has just been rising since then, but that could also be working his way through the bounce.
Right - he started to come down a touch, but only a touch (I know it could be meter variance, but this meter has actually shown exceptionally little variance when I do repeated tests - the only times I get a different number is when I start with too small a blood drop), so I gave him the "approximately 2 drops" dose tonight and we'll see what that does for him. Also fed him his usual DM and FF combo. He's eaten roughly half of it so far and will probably graze throughout the night, unless he starts dropping.
He either decided that 2 drops of insulin aren't enough, or he's rebounding. He'd dropped a touch (to 104) at +2 after his pm shot and food, but by +4 he's at 149. He's been pretty sleepy all evening, snoozing upstairs without much stir for anything, although he did purr when I went up to see him.
Any ideas what's going on with him? Should I still skip his shot tomorrow morning?
Since you're gone tomorrow, I'd still lean towards skipping the am shot and seeing where he is at pmps to decide whether to shoot then.
this looks like a teeny bounce go me. I wouldn't give 1/2 can of ff at once post-midcycle at this point. That alSDo may have increased his blood sugar a bit.
When you're wanting to stimulate the pancreas in a cat close to otj, people typically give closer to 1 teaspoon. Just enough to wake up the pancreas but not enough to increase blood sugar.
Thanks Julie. He's starting off at 121 this morning, so was coming down from last night. Let's see what the little dude does on his own
(Feeding the extra yesterday was not that out of the ordinary. He usually just has more left over from his meal that he finishes off about that same time. I had fed him less to begin with yesterday, and was just "topping him up" later on, to get an idea of what was going on there. But it's good to know about the 1 tsp of low carb to try to inspire the pancreas - I'll keep that in mind, although it's a grazing day again today - less than half the food was eaten, so it'll get finished off throughout the day)
Either way, there was some serious eating going on last night. They'd calmed down a bit this morning when they got the other half of the big can - but cold food is never as appealing as when first opened. 
We'll have to see, though, on whether he decides to cooperate or not. I fed them a bit of low carb food a few hours ago, since everyone was snorting around the food dishes acting like they hadn't been fed for a day. I was curious to find out if his pancreas would kick in and bring him back down like it seems to in the morning, but at the tail end of the insulin activity, it looks like it's not quite there yet. Still in the normal levels, but getting close, and this is about the time that he usually starts his second dip if he's going to have one. If he doesn't come down more in the next two hours, I'll give him his microdose and see how that goes for the night. Tomorrow morning will be the no dose test, assuming that he doesn't start off considerably higher for some reason. Sound about right?