Tommy AMPS 265 doing curve

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Sandy&Tommy

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AMPS 265 1.0U @ 9:20a 1/2 can & little more 9 Lives Chicken Dinner
+2 225
+4 80 :mrgreen: 2T LC food
+6 108 :mrgreen:

Home all day so I'm doing a curve. Opened a new bottle of Prozinc as other had expired and I think it wasn't lasting long enough. I wanted to wait so I could do a curve with the new juice. I talked with DH and we are going to try to feed befor nadir so that maybe his BG would even out and also be easier on his system. I've been doing a lot of reading posts and gleening information.
 
Is this the first time you've split his normal food at breakfast into two portions?
 
+10 276
Yes this is the first time that we are trying the split food times. I did give the majority of food at breakfast with giving a couple of tablespoons at a later time. The 80 at +4 kind of spooked me because he bounces easily, so that is when I fed him. My plan was to feed around +5-6. I have been reading here that it is better to split food throughout the day. DH is home most days around that time.

Is having a more constant BG better than the higher, low, then higher? I would like Tommy to be more consistent in the blues. I know more nadir's help, but they are very hard to get unless I have a day off. Thank you for your help.
 
OK, good to know. Let me explain why I asked the question.

This is what could have happened. No way to know for sure, and I try to never reach a conclusion with anything "diabetes" based on just one cycle.

If Tommy has been used to a set amount of food with his shot in the morning, then that food will "boost" his BG by putting glucose into his bloodstream. Then you add insulin to the mix, and they basically try to fight each other. But in general, during the first couple of hours after eating, the food gets digested and gets converted into glucose and whatever else it gets converted to.
With PZI, about two to three hours after a shot, the insulin reaches "onset", and it starts to combat the increase in blood glucose, and sometime around 5-7 hours after the shot, it "peaks" (nadir would be the lowest BG of the cycle), then gradually loses potency and wears off as you get close to the next shot 12 hours later.

Alright, so this morning, he ate less. So maybe his BG didn't climb as high as it usually does after breakfast. And then the insulin kicks in, and works against a lower BG than usual. So it appears to "onset" a little sooner, and it pushes the number down so that by +4, it's lower than you would expect it to be.

You did the exact right thing by feeding him at that point. And if that point had happened at +6 like you were hoping for, everything would have been "right on schedule".

If this is what happened, I think there's two ways to address it. Either shoot just a tad less insulin when you see a 265, and go with the split breakfast like you were planning. Or, give him his normal breakfast and normal dose, and then "add" a couple tablespoons of food around +4 or +5 - sometime just before nadir is supposed to happen. That can stop the number from dropping lower than you want it to go, but you'd be doing it proactively instead of reacting to the low number after you see it on the meter. A lot of that would be determined by his current weight, and if he's under or over weight. If you can add a 1/4 can or so to his total food for the day, you could go with option 2 (assuming he's not overweight currently). That might get you what you're after.
Is having a more constant BG better than the higher, low, then higher? I would like Tommy to be more consistent in the blues.
I think that's a good goal to have. It isn't easy to achieve, just due to the way the insulin works. You don't want the dose so small that it is doing little to nothing, but if you can manage to keep the numbers in the blues and greens, that would be awesome. Eventually, you'd be able to shoot relatively small doses and hopefully see the numbers overall continue to come down. At first, most people see a lot of swings, and bounces, but as the cat improves overall, the cycles tend to become flatter, and the doses keep getting smaller.

Again, I can't say for sure that the above description of what I think might have happened did happen. But does it makes sense the way I explained it?
 
+12 PMPS 375

Yes you make perfect sense. As far as weight, I'm not quite sure. I haven't weighed him since his DX. A year before DX he was 19.5lbs. At DX he was 13.2lbs. He couldn't even clean his behind at his high weight. In hind sight (pun intended) I did realize at some point that he had lost weight as he was cleaning his behind. I believe he has gained back some weight, but not a lot as he still can clean. We don't have a good scale at this time, and I don't want to bring him to the vet as she is against this protocol as so many of the vets are. I will try to get a better scale.

WIthout doing the curve I would have suspected a bounce with the high PMPS, so why do you think he jumped +100 points?
 
I think the cycle ran "short". And some of that is probably a bounce from dropping down to 80.
 
I think the cycle ran "short". And some of that is probably a bounce from dropping down to 80.
 
So here is one of those time I will disagree with Carl (with respect :-D ). Tommy has had good cycles with ProZinc and I haven't seen much evidence on past cycles of it not lasting long enough. So I am definitely voting for a bounce. Not that it makes any difference, really. Our suggestion moving forward will very likely be the same.....

I think the tricky part, Sandy, is that he could probably drop a little more and be in very nice numbers if you raise the dose a bit. But I know you are not home to catch the nadir usually and it would be hard to catch a low number. If I catch you before the amps today and (unless he is low) you could try a fat one or 1.25 and see if he stays in safe numbers, has a later nadir and is lower pmps. (that would prove Carl right, which would be frustrating for me. :mrgreen: )

Can you try it today when you are home and see?
 
You did catch me this morning :mrgreen: I work the day shift today. I will get a reading when I get home. I will have DH feed some around nadir. :smile:
 
If I catch you before the amps today and (unless he is low) you could try a fat one or 1.25 and see if he stays in safe numbers, has a later nadir and is lower pmps. (that would prove Carl right, which would be frustrating for me. )
No, it wouldn't prove me right. :lol: A kitty can have a nine hour cycle and a fourteen hour cycle on the same exact dose. Just 'cuz. If the absorption rate can vary by up to 50% on any given day, that could cause a wide range of "length of cycle", right?
Yesterday, 1u on a 264 was plenty, and if you shot 1.25u last night and got a 265 this morning, that dose looks like it worked pretty well too. If the PMPS was a bounce, it looks like Tommy recovered well and quickly to me.
 
That's a good cycle, IMHO. Part of that +7 is the +5 snack, so the snack might have prevented a low enough nadir to cause a bounce.
 
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