Today's curve for my Barn Buddy

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Patti and Merlin said:
Jen & Squeak said:
Yes, you cut the dose in half for 3 days or 6 shots as it can take that long for rebound hormones to settle down. If numbers do not get worse or they stay the same, it is a good bet you are overdosing him.
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Patti and Merlin wrote:
I would definitely like for the other hi dose moms to have input in this but I tend to disagree with the statement that "if numbers don't get worse it's a good bet you are overdosing." This is where the problem comes in on a question of a hi dose kitty (acromegaly or IAA) or not. Some hi dose kitties can have the same numbers at lo doses AND at higher doses until you get up to the correct higher doses. I am all for a rebound check however just having the same numbers doesn't always mean being overdosed. Some of us had flat curves at lower doses - little changes in numbers as we SLOWLY increased our doses just as Joanne's kitty is showing now. So a blanket statement like that can be misleading. Merlin's numbers looked like Buddy's numbers all the way up to 7 units bid on Vetsulin until we eventually switched to PZI. Again he did the same thing up to 7 units PZI bid until we switched to a sliding scale. I can post links to those old numbers if anyone wants to be bored by all that. I also know that I did so many "rebound checks" and spent a year trying to figure out what was going on. Only to find out I was right months earlier in my suspicions that it was never rebound and that something else was going on.
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Completely agree Patti. Spook's numbers did not change with the rebound test. They remained the same throughout, wether I lowered the dose or increased, they always remained high & flat. It wasn't until we reached the right dose, a higher one, that things started to improve.

That's not to say that rebound is not a possibility in this case, but I just want to caution as to the need to really check for ketones while checking if it is rebound. If numbers do start to get worse, increase right away, don't wait.
 
Jen I am wondering what do you consider obvious signs of acromegaly???

Have you read thru the subtle ones at all that are raising red flags for so many of us and not just including hi dose people? We don't just jump on someone who is giving hi doses. There are so many other clues. We are all for suggesting and backing up a rebound check but give us some credit for recognizing things that we have been closely watching monitoring for the past 3 years.

As always we hope we r wrong but unfortunately most often we are right on for acro or IAA
 
Patti

I'm not in this for any reason other than to provide a different perspective that I see missing here. I'm not one of the people on health who shout rebound every five minutes, nor am I responsible for any of the issues you or others here have had in the past when trying to figure out what is wrong with your cats, so please stop treating me like I am.

You have a person here who has reached a high dose without the necessary data to support it. I've followed this thread and while I know very little about acromegaly, I haven't seen anything that shouted it to me, but maybe I missed something. I am simply amazed at the lack of support here for a simple fricking rebound test, with the exception of Karen and Janet. Not multiple rebound tests that put the cat at risk, not sending the cat back to 1 unit and starting over. A rebound test. And relying on past posts by people who know more than me, I've suggested that a rebound test should last 3 days, not 1 day like suggested here.

I have no clue how Joanne will figure out how to proceed with all of the mixed messages she is getting here but I sure as heck hope that this lovely cat doesn't suffer because of it.
 
I know you don't know me but..

I am concerned.

I have an acro.

This curve is not one of an over dosed cat IMO. I know I am not looking at his whole history but I'm very very concerned. 150pt drops generally do not happen with an overdosed kitty right at "normal" nadir time.

PS-32.9/592
+2-27.7/499
+4-23.7/427 <---this is evidence of an actual curve, something we don't normally see in an overdosed cat
+6-26.5/477
+8-26.1/470
+10-31.5/567
+12-HI/594+

I think it's entirely possible the cat is not getting enough insulin and we have to be careful here. I do not like the 3 day rebound check, which is not saying that I don't like the rebound check. I am NOT saying the dose is not too high because experience tells us it might well be. I suspect the insulin itself is a problem here but.... I don't like a 3 day test because we're looking at putting a cat into serious danger who may already be in dire need of more insulin. You've got several things going on here and one of them is infection. If this cat is truly underdosed, and has cushings/iaa/acro, putting insufficient insulin and infection together could be a disaster. To be perfectly blunt, and I am worried that the fact that this is vetsulin, which is known for it's rather forceful action, and he isn't hypoing weekly is indicative of something else going on, be it one of the main high dose causes or something else such as underlying illness. Finally we do not know if the vetsulin is bad. We do know the manufacturer had problems, but anything could have happened to that insulin in transit or storage and we could be dealing with lost efficacy. VERY scary to look at this and decide what to do. The rebound check needs to be performed with a known "good" insulin.. ie: something new. Lantus/Lev/PZI/whatever you can get your hands on, it's gotta be new so that you know you're dealing with ONE thing that works. (BTW if you do buy lantus or levemir, make sure you also buy u100 syringes with half unit markings as lantus/lev are u100 insulins)

So. I personally recommend you go buy 1. new vetsulin/caninsulin or 2. lantus or 3. levemir and start at 3u with vetsulin/caninsulin or a lowered dose of 2u for lantus or levemir. With the two latter insulins, you can increase every 6 doses by 1/2u at a time to "catch up" to where you were. Not too sure about that with vetsulin/caninsulin but I don't think you can increase it that fast. You MUST test his urine for ketones during this testing time. Any sign of ketones will require immediate and emergency action. It's not hard, just stick the strip in the puddle of urine after he pees and wait the determined number of seconds.

I also would prefer for Jojo to take a peek and I am going to send her a msg and beg her, because I understand both sides of this problem. Clearly there's ample evidence that this dose could have been reached a little more cautiously, however, there is also question in my head about why this dose has not sent this cat into a devastating hypo cycle. If in fact the insulin is BAD then switching to a good insulin at the same or even half the current dose could be a huge mistake.

One other thing.. for cold symptoms, you can crush one 500mg tablet L-lysine into the food and mix it up to help alleviate snotty symptoms. It's a human supplement.
 
Jen, I too would like to know what "obvious signs of acromegaly" are you looking for?

I don't think anyone has ruled out rebound or is dismissing it out of hand. I agree with cutting the dose in half for a couple/3 days and seeing what happens... IF ketones can be tested for during that time. Otherwise, I don't see another "safe" way to do it than how Joanne's vet has advised. Ultimately, it's up to Joanne to decide how to proceed. We will help and support her no matter what.
 
Rebound was dismissed, with zero support for a rebound test when Joanne first posted; she was told by people that it was unlikely and it was suggested that she test for acromegaly. After a lag in time, TID dosing on caninsulin was suggested instead if she didn't want to switch back to lantus.

I'm not going to contribute to this thread anymore because I can't contribute further knowledge or experience.
 
Carolynn

This cat is not the one with infection, it is a civie cat. If it were this cat there is no way I'd suggest a rebound test.

And yes, a switch in insulins to a reasonable starting dose would be lovely.
 
The "other Carolyn" (who always forgets a letter! :lol: ) mentioned infection, but I know what you meant, Jen. Good to point that out.

Anyway... everyone: can we let Joanne decide what she wants to do? I don't want this to progress to the point where feelings are hurt or a cat isn't helped. We've all laid out our thoughts, but we aren't the ones with Buddy.
 
In regard to the upset going on.. we here on the HD group are an unusual group of people here on FDMB, well versed in FD, and yet still often questioned by the uninformed. Jen is not one of those people. She is one of very few people who do not immediately jump on the rebound check bandwagon on Health, and I respect her thoughts quite a bit as she is often capable of spotting things that others miss. She is also very good about coming to get one of us if there's a questionable cat whose owner is being advised to reduce dose.

This is a very scary situation for not only Joanne, but for all of us looking at it. One missed comment, one missed piece of information, and we advise the wrong thing and potentially harm the kitty. And I just did that very thing, not realizing it was a 2nd cat with infection. Her knowledge and caring puts her far and away one of the best advisors on Health and on FDMB, as well as one of HD's best "watchdogs" so please let's not argue.

We are all friends, and we shall all always be friends.
 
I am now totally paralyzed. I feel I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. I have to give an insulin shot in 2 hours and I have no idea what to do!

Joanne
 
I know Joanne is really confused ( because she has said so previously). When I'm confused, I try to get more informed to make a better decision. (and I pray for guidance)

Since it's her cat, and she is the one who has to deal with things in the moment, I hope that she takes the time to carefully reread all the posts from the beginning, and read up on all the jargon and informational pieces available in each forum.

The issues of concern as I remember them:
diabetic cat, high dose, started on 4 units, seems otherwise healthy
large body and paws, no history of hypos, possibly suspicious of acromegaly
eating at least some dry food
BG levels are high
current insulin under a "product alert", the manufacturer has asked owners to stop using due to variations in its action, and has predicted shortages.
mamabean works and is primarily available for close observation on weekends and evenings, currently dealing with sick civie as well.
lives in rural Canada with one vet available, with whom she has begun a dialogue about these concerns
(how do you get insulin shipped without it being frozen?)
has ketostrips, but has difficulty catching him in the act because he is an indoor/outdoor kitty.
Many people offering opinions in genuine attempt to help.
I'm sure I've missed or misrepresented a few and if so I apologize...

I offer no opinions, but I will pray for you, that you receive the info and wisdom to proceed to best help your kitty.
 
Barnbuddy said:
I am now totally paralyzed. I feel I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. I have to give an insulin shot in 2 hours and I have no idea what to do!

Joanne
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I'm sorry Joanne

(((hugs))) Don't be paralyzed. Just shoot what you planned to shoot. That is not already harming him so it's the safe route for now.

Then, let's talk this out. The insulin is not currently working. You have to find out why.

Is it because he needs more? Looks that way but...
Is it because it's bad? Could be.. perhaps we should try a new insulin, or at least a fresh vial of the same insulin.
Is it because it's too much? Doesn't really look that way to me, but it's a possibility.
Is it because he's got an illness? Absolutely a consideration, and I understand the constraints of having the tests done in where you live.

These questions are all answerable, but we have to approach this systematically and help you find this out and without scaring the heck out of you.

Please don't give up on us or him, we can get you there, but there is no fast answer here in my opinion. We all have differing experiences, which can be confusing to the person asking the question, but ultimately our wide variety of experiences will get you to the answer you are looking for. No one here wants to "be right", we all just want to help you get your kitty better. Don't feel stuck in the middle, just review what we've said, answer what you can and bounce your ideas, questions and thoughts off us. It will start making sense to you then and you will be able to make a decision based on what you're reading. No one here is going to say "why didn't you try my idea???" so you can feel totally secure in posting your thoughts and ideas and plans. :smile:

PS: Excellent summary Nancy
 
Barnbuddy said:
I am now totally paralyzed. I feel I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. I have to give an insulin shot in 2 hours and I have no idea what to do!

Joanne
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Ultimately the decision is yours Joanne. Know that we will support you with whichever route you take. I for one was never against the rebound test, I just want to make sure that you do understand the possible outcomes (ie: DKA) so for this reason, I can't stress enough how important it is to check the urine for ketones. There's no harm in doing the rebound check if you do monitor carefully. If you see the numbers consistently staying at HI with no movement then you'll know to increase again. What makes me think that it isn't rebound is that you are seeing a bit of a curve, just not enough of one. Plus, if you're still feeding dry food, that will keep those numbers high.
 
Hi Joanne! After reading through this whole thread, i wanted to add my 2 cents. I too dealt with difficult numbers at the beginning of my FD journey. My French Fry would respond to insulin, sometimes having significant drops, but also often ending up at high numbers. We played the rebound game, lowering the dose, etc. to the point that were were using diluent to make the concentration of the insulin even smaller. We ended up also dealing with recurring DKA as a result.

Our solution came with a change in insulins. We were using humulin L at first which was a moderate onset, moderate duration insulin. Changing to a longer onset, longer duration, gentler insulin did wonders. We started over on 2u with the new insulin and increased aggressively ( 0.5u every 2-3 days) until we found the right dose, and the ketones finally went away.

It looks like Buddy was started at 4u BID? So you have no data at all on any lower dose. Do you have any pre-insulin readings? Like the number when he was diagnosed? If he was significantly lower before he started receiving insulin, there is a good chance that he was started way too high and a lower dose would be in order.

I agree with Carolyn that a change in insulins is probably going to be your best line of attack. And starting fairly low is generally a good idea when doing this. Do test for ketones during this as ketoacidosis is nothing to flirt with.

Please try not to let all the variables and all of the different approaches overwhelm you. We are all trying to help.
 
Anne & French Fry (GA) said:
It looks like Buddy was started at 4u BID? So you have no data at all on any lower dose. Do you have any pre-insulin readings? Like the number when he was diagnosed? If he was significantly lower before he started receiving insulin, there is a good chance that he was started way too high and a lower dose would be in order.
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I'm trying not to panic here but my gut is telling me he was started too high. He was 25 the first time he was checked with no insulin. He was also on a high carb diet of mostly dry food from the supermarket. He was also under a lot of stress at the vets office...this is a stray cat who took 2 years to get used to me. Now all of a sudden he is at a clinic surrounded by all these strange people and animals. He absolutely hates dogs. His BG's have gotten consistently higher ever since. He may show signs of the tumour but his head and feet were always large...it didn't just happen. I've been marvelling at the size of his paws for the past 5 years.

I'm so confused by all of this discussion(arguement) and I'm thinking I should just do as my vet said and quickly decrease him at each dose. It may be wrong but she's the one who is here and is working with me.

Joanne
 
Joanne.... the most important thing for you to do right now is do what YOU feel comfortable with. Simple as that. You are there, your vet has a plan, and it sounds reasonable to me, so I say go for it.

((((hugs)))) to you and scritches to your boy...
 
((((((hugs)))))) Joanne,

I know it is confusing to get a lot of conflicting suggestions.

I think the main worry about lowering the dose is -- Buddy COULD develop ketoacidosis which can turn extremely serious and require hospitalization.

So - people are suggesting testing the urine for ketones using the keto-dia-styx

Some cats are more prone to DKA than others -- my Norton never had a problem with it, and if you are lucky -- neither will Barn Buddy.

If urine testing is difficult or impossible, sniff his breath if he'll let you. A human or kitty with ketones will have sweet or fruity smelling breath.

If he smells like cat food and looks at you like you're crazy - he's probably fine :lol:

Hang in there!!!!

Also -- just to mention -- Norton had acromegaly and he had big feet and strong muscular body / head for several years before he developed diabetes. In hindsight, we think he had the tumor for at least 5 years.
 
Dear Joanne
I want to apologize to you for making this so confusing and overwhelming to you. That was never my intent. Please forgive me. I will step aside and let the others help you. Once things have been worked out if I can help you at all I am always here or you. I wish nothing but the very best for you and Buddy
xxx
 
Barnbuddy said:
I'm trying not to panic here but my gut is telling me he was started too high.
Joanne
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I think most everyone here will agree that there is nothing more important in treating FD than gut feeling.

Like the others said in unison, please test his urine as you are doing this to make sure he does not develop ketones. If you do catch him positive for ketones, you must stop decreasing right then and there and get help for him. We can teach you how to test his urine, I know it's tough to catch him but where there's a will, there's a way.. right? We're here for you, no matter what route you take. :)
 
Something's not right...he was 28.3 PS this evening. A;most 4 hours later he's HI..it's gone up! This was with 7 units of Insulin. What should I do? Still haven't caught him peeing.

joanne
 
Barnbuddy said:
Something's not right...he was 28.3 PS this evening. A;most 4 hours later he's HI..it's gone up! This was with 7 units of Insulin. What should I do? Still haven't caught him peeing.

joanne
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Can you keep testing throughout the night? Have you tested since and if so, what was the number? Did he eat anything between the preshot and the next test? (ie: dry food?)
 
At this point I doubt I'll sleep. I called the vet. I just got him to eat some food and gave him another 2 units of insulin. I don't think he's eaten anything since he had his supper. At this point she has no clue as to what to tell me to do. I managed to get a drop of pee on a Ketostix and it showed trace. I don't know if I got enough on it or not. Buddy's very lethargic and is excessively thirsty. I'm scared!

Joanne
 
If you put fresh litter in a clean litter box and put him in there, could this by chance entice him to mark it? Mine love brand new litter (Although my guys will usually go anytime I put them in the box)

Just be sure you have the ketostix ready to stick in the stream or the fresh puddle.

When you PM someone I think it sends them an email. You might try that for Carolynn.
 
Did you test again before giving the extra 2 units? If so, what was the number, and when did you give the extra insulin? Try not to panic. Can you get another bg reading?
 
The test before the other 2 units was HI...as in off the charts.

I didn't realize that I could use pee that went into the litter. I'll try it.

Trying hard not to panic but it's hard:-/

Joanne

PS I don't see anything there for PM.
 
Ideally, try and test the pee while he's urinating, catching it midstream on the stick, but if the puddle is still fresh, you can still test that way too. Try placing fresh litter in a new pan or box to entice him to go, most cats can't resist this. Try and get another glucose test in if it's been a couple of hours since the last 2 units were given. Don't panic at the HI, cats can handle it remarkably well, it's the ketones that can be very dangerous so if you see them, take him to an emergency vet right away.
 
Barnbuddy said:
PS I don't see anything there for PM.
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If you wait for the page to load fully, you will notice a "PM" icon under the user name on the right hand side of the page, you should also see an "online" banner if that user is currently on the forum.
 
Agreed, when a cat goes high, they drink a lot of water to flush the extra sugar out of their blood.

In cats, the ketones and very very low numbers are the scary things. BTW many cats never have trouble with ketones and chances are buddy will not either. Unfortunately, testing is the way to tell to be sure.

The private message icon is a little gray box below the user info at the right.
 
He went for the litter box...it showed somewhere between trace and negative. Should I go back to 9 units in the morning? He seemed ok with 8 this morning...it's when I went to 7 that things started changing.
The excessive water drinking was really scaring me.
That and the fact that he wasn't interested in his Halo treat.

I see the PM box now...thanks.

Joanne
 
Barnbuddy said:
He went for the litter box...it showed somewhere between trace and negative. Should I go back to 9 units in the morning? He seemed ok with 8 this morning...it's when I went to 7 that things started changing.
The excessive water drinking was really scaring me.
That and the fact that he wasn't interested in his Halo treat.

I see the PM box now...thanks.

Joanne
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Personally, I would go back to the 9 units. Again, the choice is yours but if you choose to reduce some more, please check for ketones again religiously. The pattern in your numbers is so very much like so many of us HI dose moms that have been through this already that I would be very surprised if it really was rebound.
 
I don't know if it will help keep you calm but,

2 months ago Cody went from 12 units vetsulin (your insulin) to no insulin for a cycle, to 2-3 units of PZI the next day, and didn't have any ketones. He wasn't happy the day with no insulin, his sugar went up and he drank a lot, but no ketones, no trips to the vet. I didn't know about the FDMB and I was just doing what my vet suggested in order to transition away from Vetsulin.

any luck with the new litter?
 
oops , sorry you beat me to it. The delayed 2 units might lengthen your duration a bit this cycle so you may have a slightly lower number next AMPS, just in case you notice that tomorrow.
 
Hi Joanne,
Suzie and I are in EST (10 p.m. at this time) Both Carolyn(n)s are also in eastern US. Patti and Kimmee are on the west coast, so they'll be up later.

This is the time to get a glass of wine and some chocolate -- take a deep breath. If you're upset, your kitties will get upset, so be calm. Everything is going to be ok.

Do you have to work tomorrow? If you could get one more test in tonight, that would be good. I have to work tomorrow, so I will need to go to bed in an hour or so.

((((((((hugs))))))))
phoebe
 
Things seem to be getting back to normal. I did another test and it was 30.4 so it has gone down. He went crazy for his Halo treat and then headed to the food dish. I think now I can go to bed. Back to 9 units in the morning. Thanks everyone for getting us through this. I don't handle crisis' very well:-/
And yes i have to work in the morning so I'd better get off the computer now.

Thanks again.

Joanne
 
He seems to be back to normal this morning. I'm exhausted but he's ok:-) Sticking iwth 9 units this morning. Will contact the vet again today to see what we should do next. I'm thinking change the insulin.

Joanne
 
((Joanne)) Sorry I wasn't on last night... I'm not normally on late and it was another day with headaches so I was in bed early. You got some great support and advice from the others, though, and you were in good hands.

Anyway... talk with your vet, test for ketones if/when you can, add water to Buddy's food (that'll help flush anything out), give him a smooch and a hug, and go from there. Today is a new day. Buddy's ok. You're tired, but you are also a fabulous mombean to your boy.

(((hugs)))
 
Buddy is back to normal today. (Normal still being high BG...but normal for him). Still have no plan as to what to do next. Was talking to the vet tech at the clinic but not the vet.

Carolynn I can sympathize with you...I have headaches too. Hope you're feeling better today.

Thanks everyone for being there last night. It helped to know that I wasn't entirely alone.

Any thoughts as to why that happened??
(Without totally confusing me:-)

Joanne
 
Well, it seems like Barn Buddy needs more insulin.

My brief rebound test with Norton also had immediate HIGH results.

So -- your insulin seems to still be effective -- and it seems that Buddy needs the dose that you are giving him.
<Edited to add: and probably more insulin than you are currently giving him>

----------------

Possible next steps to consider to try to gain control over his Blood Sugar:
1. reduce / eliminate dry food. (need to be testing blood sugar and prepare to reduce dose when needed)

... when I got Norton completely off dry food, his insulin dose decreased from 13 units BID to 8 units BID

2. change to a longer lasting insulin

... caninsulin only lasts approx 10 hours in a cat. that means every day, twice a day, there are several hours with NO insulin on board, so blood sugar can rage out of control (roller-coaster blood sugar curve)

... with a longer lasting insulin, the insulin remains active more than 12 hours --- so the blood sugar remains lower overall since the second injection is given before the blood sugar has rocketed back up to high levels

3. try TID dosing (if you want to stay with caninsulin)

... this would essentially help get some overlap -- giving insulin before the previous dose is all gone, so the blood sugar stays lower.

4. request tests for Acromegaly and IAA

... both tests are conducted by the lab at Michigan State University Vet College (the only lab in North America that does these tests -- least expensive if your vet contacts them directly instead of going through a "middle man")

Gotta go for now - will be back online later this evening

phoebe
 
Thanks Phoebe. Sorry I didn't reply earlier but I'm the one with the headache this time. Can't concentrate when I have a headache.

Now to throw something else into the fire. I wasn't going to bother doing a curve this morning but decided to anyway. Here are his numbers so far.
PS HI
+2 29.4
+4 20.9 !!!

What's up with that???

Ketones are showing somewhere between trace and small.

Joanne

PS Would it be ok if I print some of these things off to show my vet? She readily admits that she doesn't know what to do:-/
 
Joanne,
You should REALLY go poke around the Caninsulin/Vetsulin Insulin support group and read about his insulin. As a sample, I copied this from it:
Tip #1, "Know Thy Insulin "
Insulins work in very different ways; some start to work immediately; Humulin N and Caninsulin are examples of this.
Others have their action start hours later like PZI, Lantus and Levemir

Caninsulin/Vetsulin is what is known as an intermediate insulin.
It is 30% fast acting insulin and 70% intermediate acting insulin. It is diluted as a U-40 insulin, please check your syringes are also U-40.
This results in an insulin that starts to work quickly in your cat, on average within about 60 minutes, that peaks/nadirs ( lowest point of blood glucose) approximately 4-6 hours after shot is given and tends to run out of steam between 8-10 hours after shot in some cats, some also get a full 12 hours of duration. Every Cat Is Different!
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I am not familiar with your blood glucose conversion factors, but its obvious that at + 4 you had a good drop in BG, which would fit with how this insulin is suppose to work. It is also obvious from the preshot highs you always get, that this insulin is not lasting Buddy the full 12 hours between shots. A different insulin should last longer so that he doesn't keep fluctuating like that.

If you go read more in the Vetsulin Insulin support group (especially about the FDA warnings about vetsulin) it may help you decide about trying a different insulin.

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER. before you change things, you will be less likely to panic if you understand why and what you are seeing in Buddy. Go do some reading. :razz:

As for printing things off -- I did, and it was very helpful to my vet. You have a vet who wants/needs to help you, so get her connected- she's the one with the veterinary degree so she should absorb the info more easily than a lay person.

Please keep an eye on the ketones and keep posting- remember the "exactly 15 sec" rule. I'll ask others to comment on that. Is he eating and drinking normally? :?:
 
Hi Nancy

I'm already looking into changing the insulin. My reaction to the drop is that nothing has changed...he's been on 9 units for about 3 weeks now and has had very flat curves. Now all of a sudden we see this big drop. Is it cause for some optimism????
(For a change) Yes my syringes are U-40.

I'll be speaking to my vet about Levemir tomorrow instead of Lantis in case he is a true high dose cat. What is the best way to go about transitioning him to another insulin?

Thanks!
Joanne
 
Is this the same vial that you have been using?
Maybe mixing/rolling it this time was different,
maybe your seeing some of the product alert issues, before I switched I suddenly started getting really low numbers (for him) also.
maybe he didn't eat dry food recently, that can have a BIG effect.
maybe he's just a cat that keeps you guessing... ;-)

gotta go to church
 
Great post Nancy!

If you switch to Lev... hmmmm, I'll do some asking about what you might start at. Usually you'd start over at 1u and maybe increase more quickly, but with the possibility of ketones we don't want to be messing around in higher numbers for long. I'll get back to you on that, k?

Hope you both have a great day!
 
OMG that's going to be terrifying starting at 1 unit after what happened Thursday evening. And I have to go to work. How do people manage that?? He's now at 9 units twice daily.

Oh and at 8 hours in todays curve he was already back at HI. I was almost tempted to give him some more!! Poor boy:-(

My Siamese is deteriorating before my eyes:-( His eyes have dried up and he's sneezing less but he looks absolutely awful. And the smell has come back. I'll probably have to put him down sometime this week. I think that quality of life has to come into this. If he's not going to get better I'd rather not prolong the suffering.

Joanne
 
I'm not sure that you would start over at 1u-- especially with the ketones. That's why I want to get some input.

I'm so sorry about your other kitty. On Feb 16 it's a year that I had to help my old (she was 23? 25?) girl Gabi to The Bridge. She finally had a grand mal seizure (4th one) that she couldn't fight back from. It was the hardest thing I've ever had to do, but she actually cuddled with me... laid her head right on my heart... something she never, ever had done... and I knew it was the right thing. I can still feel her little head in my hand... how her fur felt... as she left. You'll do what's right for your kitty, no matter how hard.

(((((((hugs))))))) and understanding....
 
No matter how many times you do it it never gets any easier. I've had numerous cats and dogs PTS over the years and it hurts just as much each time.

Joanne
 
Hi, your post caught my eye because of using Caninsulin.
I'll leave the sliding scale stuff to Patti-she knows her stuff :mrgreen:

I read about the Convenia, here is a lonk from Dr Lisa:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/r ... ?8,1905168

and this was her updated one on this board:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2107

I've heard people be very successful with the pill pockets.
I used to hide Lucky's pills in either a piece of fresh boiled chicken or a small cube of Felix meat (just cut into it and then squashed round it-like making a cornish pastie! Sorry best analogy I can think of)

Hope Barn Buddy is ok
 
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