? To Shoot or Not to Shoot.

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MeltyCat

MeltyCat

Member Since 2015
Good morning,

Hoping someone is as crazy as me and up this early on a Sunday morning.

I was hoping someone could take a look at Melty's SS and give me a better idea if I should be shooting or not this morning. Historically, he's been in the mid 20's before every shot, and swings quite low at nadir. Last night, however, he stayed fairly even, and is still lower than normal this morning. (Praying to the kitty gods that this is the start of a trend!)

I'll be home all day to monitor, but I was just hoping for some guidance.

:)
 
Hey Nikki, sorry I didn't see this sooner. I see you went ahead and shot and I'm sure Melty will be fine. I know you buffer his drop with food and his +1 isn't tanking quite like it did yesterday at the same time. I would just watch him and take a +3. If he's under 4.5 or so then take every half hour - not because I'm super concerned but because I know you'll worry! It's a good time to see how low he goes so don't feed any emergency treats. Just watch for the signs of hypo. I'm learning that peak can happen at +3 so that reading might just be as low as he goes. Take as many readings as you feel comfortable doing. By then you will have nice curve data to give to your vet. You're doing great.
 
I forgot one thing. If you look at the colours and use them and not purely the readings to interpret anything, note that the World sheet has 6 "ranges and colours" whereas the U.S. Only sheet a lot of people are using has 7. There is an additional range marked with dark green field and white text of what I interpret as "safe but caution" whereas the world sheet gives a bright green at any reading under 5.6. I changed my SS to mimic the U.S. Only one so if someone in the U.S. were to look "by colour" we were looking at the same thing. It isn't critical, but I thought I would mention the difference.
 
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Good Morning Melanie :)

I did go ahead and shoot. He was lower and even last night so I feel comfortable. I'm here all day and to be honest he's a dream to test so I'll probably do every hour or two unless he gets low!

He's on strictly low carb wet and a little Orijen dry when feeding the curve, now. I can tell his tummy is still a bit off, but his numbers look great.

Didn't drop very low at all this morning so gave dry meal at +2 instead of +1.

I'm praying his numbers stay like this and that it's the food that's making all the difference :)

Hope you and the fur family have a nice relaxing day!
 
Good Morning Nikki,

Are you going to be around to monitor for awhile (4 or 5 hours or longer if need be)? Melty's starting number is a bit lower again today so unless you can monitor, I think I'd reduce even more maybe back to 1u. It still looks to me like Melty is on his way off insulin, so I'd be conservative if you can't monitor.
 
I have already given his 1.5u, but I'm leaving for work. :S Will leave out extra dry food for him, and have my boyfriend (works just across the road) check on him every couple of hours to make sure there's no signs of hypo.

15.4 drop already in 1 hour. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little anxious about that number.
 
As long as someone can monitor and knows how to deal with low numbers, he'll be fine. We are all so anxious when we get the diagnosis, but when kitty decides he might want off the juice it's just as anxiety provoking. Can your boyfriend check around 3 hours and if Melty is way down give him some moderate carb canned food to slow down his drop? Dry food takes longer to boost the sugar. And if Melty is dropping, he should be monitored closely until he starts rising again (no less than every 30 minutes).
 
Crap. 11.3 at +1.5. Should I be giving him anything now. He just ate a dry meal about 15 minutes ago.
 
The dry will be kicking in when the Caninsulin is kicking in.
Give him a few teaspoons of canned food to help slow the drop.

Tonight, you might give some of the dry at shot time, since it takes longer to have an effect, and use the canned at +1.5
 
Hey Nikki, I'm no dosing expert but I will say based on his numbers yesterday when you got all that info he was higher yesterday by a bit and didn't drop into "green" numbers on 2.0u - basing it on just that, and that he has food available and has just eaten, and if he can have a check at +3 he should be okay riding through the drop. This whole thing can be very unpredictable so I'm glad your boyfriend can check on him - keep us posted!
 
He suddenly appears to be on a hunger strike (probably scarfed down a bunch of kibble and is full).

I did manage to get him to eat some of the juices out of the wet food can.

Testing again in 10.
 
Ok take another reading and if he is still dropping I think a little corn syrup on his gums would help. you only need a little!
 
No sorry, I shouldn't have said "still".

I moreso meant he's still dropping.

We are at 2.9 now, but he's eaten wet food, dry food, temptations, and had a little corn syrup.

Still no signs of hypo as far as I can tell.
 
Hi Nikki,

Just saw your 911.

2.9!!! I think your little guy needs some carbs. Give a little honey or syrup now. Have you got any wet food with gravy?

IMPORTANT: Don't give Melty too much food at a time - we don't want him getting too full. He's very early in the cycle and you'll probably need to feed him again.

Take another test in about 10 minutes and post the result here straight away.
 
No worries, Linda. :)

I had a few white knuckle rides with Saoirse when she was on Caninsulin but she had a much earlier typical nadir than Melty. Given that Melty's doing a food transition I was concerned that he might start racing down the dosing scale given how strongly he has responded to the insulin over the last few cycles. The plus side is that it's an in-out so once Nikki and Melty are through the peak period of insulin action there won't be a shed to worry about. :)

EDITED TO ADD:

This is a classic example of why it's so important to be home testing before starting a transition from dry to wet food.
 
@Critter Mom and @MrWorfMen's Mom

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU :D

I probably did feed him a bit too much (I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit panicked).

Held at 2.9 for about 25 minutes, now up to 3.4.

And no worries about leaving him. I wouldn't do so unless I know he's out of the woods. 3.4 is a good start.
 
That's a bit better, Nikki! I'm very relieved to hear that you can stay with your bestest pal. :)

Can you post the readings with the +?? numbers so that we can follow how far along in the cycle they were taken, please?

e.g.
+2.5 - <BG value>
+3.0 - <BG value>

We need to know how far along in the cycle we are to keep Melty safe, and also to make decisions on what to feed and when.
 
@Critter Mom Absolutely agree. I could never imagine giving insulin without home testing and my vet laughs and tells me I'm a bit OCD but she thinks it's great.
My concern with Melty is his usual nadir is about +4 hours and if my calculations are right he got his shot about 7am. so he's only at +3 now. He's already had dry food and may be getting full and reluctant to eat.

@MeltyCat Good to hear he is rising! I think though we have to still keep monitoring closely and maybe more corn syrup because he's still not at his usual nadir at +4 if my assumption he got insulin at 7am is correct..
 
@MrWorfMen's Mom -

Melty has had nadirs at +6 - see yesterday's AM cycle on his spreadsheet. He also seems to have quite a long run at the lower numbers. The other thing is that the crystalline portion of the Caninsulin reaches peak effect around the +7 mark so we need to make sure Melty's past that and in good numbers. It may take a while for the dry food carbs to kick in. The rise we're seeing now is probably down to the corn syrup, and that can wear off fairly quickly.

EDITED TO ADD:

Cross-post!

Yep. I can stay with Nikki for a few hours.

I'd appreciate it if you could check back in with us on your return. I had a very rough night last night (PTSD sleep probs) and I'm worried that I might not be able to last out the full cycle. I want to make sure Nikki and Melty have someone keeping an eye out for them.
 
Sorry it's all a bit jumbled because I took SO MANY READINGS.

Here it is:

PMPS - 18.4
6:30am - wet meal
7:00am - insulin (1.5u Caninsulin)

+1 - 15.4
+1.5 - 11.3
+1.75 - 5.4
+2 - 4.0
+2.25 - 3.8
+2.5 - 3.4
+2.75 - 2.9
+3 - 2.9
+3.25 - 3.4

About to take a +3.5 test to see if we are still increasing (fingers crossed!!)
 
That's a great help, Nikki! :)

At what time did you give the syrup, temptations, etc., and have you fed anything since?

You're doing brilliantly, BTW. :D
 
I am watching this thread and relieved Melty is on the way up. Way to go Nikki.

Áine you have experience with Caninsulin and I have seen some of this unpredictability with Genghis. In no way am I saying Nikki did anything wrong - you can't find a more devoted owner - but do you think the mix of insulins contributes to the harsh drop? Of course in addition to diet but I wonder myself sometimes if I have mixed it enough.
 
Hi Nikki,

Gosh, a scary drop there! And well done for handling it so well.
From looking at Melty's SS it looks like he sometimes reaches the peak (lowest point) of the cycle at around +6. So you may want to continue to test until that point at least, and until you've seen three rising numbers in succession.

You're doing a great job! :bighug:
 
That's what I thought she might be angling at, Eliz, but I'd rather be sure I understand her query properly so that I might answer it better.
 
Hi Nikki,

What's the latest BG reading?

Also, what foods do you have available (and do you know their carb calorie %)? Any wet food with gravy, by any chance?
 
Brashworks said:
...do you think the mix of insulins contributes to the harsh drop? Of course in addition to diet but I wonder myself sometimes if I have mixed it enough.
Click to expand...
Melanie,
Cats have a fast metabolism, so insulins made for dogs (like Caninsulin) and insulins made for humans usually have an earlier onset and a shorter 'speeded up' cycle in cats. That can cause some steep drops with some insulins.
If you are rolling the insulin a few times (and tipping it up and down also) before using then it is very likely that you are mixing it just fine. :)
.
 
Wow you guys are absolutely amazing. :D

Here's an updated list with feeding times, etc.

PMPS - 18.4
6:30am - wet meal
7:00am - insulin (1.5u Caninsulin)

+1 - 15.4
+1.5 - 11.3
+1.75 - 5.4
- attempted to give wet food, would only eat the gravy
+2 - 4.0
+2.25 - 3.8
- gave a little corn syrup (about 1/4 tsp)
+2.5 - 3.4
+2.75 - 2.9
gave wet food with pumpkin, with kibble and temptations mixed in (I was panicking and it did the trick)
+3 - 2.9
+3.25 - 3.4
+3.5 - 3.8
+4 - 5.0

He is doing great! Thank you to all of you for so much support.

@Critter Mom We are fully stocked on strips!
We're also stocked for food. Have a couple of can with gravy on standby, corn syrup (for emergencies), higher card treats, and I've kept a little of his high carb wet food.

The vet thinks the extra pumpkin may be causing a bit of an issue, suggested I remove it and pick up some Fortiflora for the diarrhea.
 
Great job, Nikki. Much better at +4/5.0. (And another good job on the 'story so far'!) I see you've got a textbook perfect hypo kit. :)

Melty has a while to go before we can be sure the insulin is past its period of peak effect. I'd recommend testing again in about 30 minutes. Don't feed in the meantime just in case his numbers might dip again in which case you would need to give him a little food (the choice will depend on the number at the next test - we don't want to give Melty higher carbs than is actually necessary).
 
@Elizabeth and Bertie thank you for that. It's exactly what I do so I feel better. No doubt it is me trying to make the unpredictable predictable. I should just get used to thinking long term and big picture!

@MeltyCat isn't this place great? I'm glad Melty is on the up.
 
It's good to see that '5', Nikki.
I second all Aine's comments/suggestions about testing/feeding etc.
MeltyCat said:
The vet thinks the extra pumpkin may be causing a bit of an issue, suggested I remove it and pick up some Fortiflora for the diarrhea.
Click to expand...
Some of us also use Slippery Elm powder for runny tums. It can be mixed with water to make a kind of 'syrup' (for feeding/syringing on it's own), or mixed directly into food along with a little extra water.
.
 
Hi Linda,

Thanks for letting me know you're back. I'll wait with you for a little bit to see what Nikki's next test result is just in case there are any queries about what and when to feed. After that if you could keep an eye out, that'd be great (I'm hanging).
 
Yes, I'm so sorry to keep you ladies waiting.
I did test once more at about +4.75, and he is up to 7.2.

My boss became rather testy so I've had to run away to work (shhhh).

Phil (my boyfriend) works just across the road and will be testing again at +6.
 
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