Tips on dealing with vets

Status
Not open for further replies.
Raggie Doll

Raggie Doll

Member Since 2011
ok so my vet is reluctant to change insulin so i am going to be doing a curve from tomorrow and get a graph up and give it to them to show how useless Caninsulin is as she is up and down all day and night.

Im in the UK so we don't have loads of insulins to choose from but there are a couple and they must be better Lantus was not an option but after doing some research i have found we do have it here in the UK so not sure why she can't have that.

So basically I'm looking for any tips in dealing with the vets
 
i had to do exactly what you said, show my vet how terrible caninsulin was showing her a curve, then I wanted BCP PZI (for a bunch of reasons) that isn't readily availabel in Canada so I founbd a company that compounded it, sent her the info. and asked for the script, which she relunctantly gave me/ Was using BCP PZI for about a month now, but Cello is now on day 4 off of insulin... staying positive.

My best advice, be persistent about what you want and show them the data to support it~
 
Unfortunately my understanding is that in the UK, whatever governing body over animal medications dictates that vets first treat with caninsulin. If that proves ineffective, my understanding is also that the vet is allowed to prescribe a different insulin, but I am not sure if they are required to get this change OK'd by someone else or how that works. And why they can't just prescribe Lantus or Levemir when someone requests either, I don't understand. It sounds like what might happen in the States if the Federal Drug Administration had stricter controls and required vets to only use FDA approved drugs first, which would be Prozinc in the States.

Hopefully another UK member will come on board who understands why this is so. I suggest changing your subject line to "UK members - tips dealing with vets for insulin switch."

I recommend collecting as much documentation as you can, in particular your cat's blood glucose levels as seen via home testing. Also current treatment protocols that have been in use with Lantus and Levemir may be helpful, such as these: http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/docs/diabetesinfo/link5.pdf
http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/docs/diabetesinfo/link4.pdf

The fact that those articles are from a university in Australia may carry some weight. I recommend printing them out and taking them in for your vet.

And anyone who wants to be more proactive, contact the UK governing body over this issue. It is almost to the point of being inhumane, IMO. Cats do poorly on caninsulin, which was developed for dogs.
 
cellosmom said:
i had to do exactly what you said, show my vet how terrible caninsulin was showing her a curve, then I wanted BCP PZI (for a bunch of reasons) that isn't readily availabel in Canada so I founbd a company that compounded it, sent her the info. and asked for the script, which she relunctantly gave me/ Was using BCP PZI for about a month now, but Cello is now on day 4 off of insulin... staying positive.

My best advice, be persistent about what you want and show them the data to support it~
Click to expand...

Wow he's off the insulin, yeah i agreed to give the caninsulin another week as Tilly had to be in the vets for 4 days after a nasty infection but the way i feel is that its unfair on her cause she is up and down all the time and makes her upset and moody.

I will be bringing in lots of info for them. I can never understand their obsession with caninsulin maybe cause its cheap?!

PZI is one of the options i have heard Lantus s really good but i will probably follow your route and ask for a prescription if they won't order it in and get it from somewhere else
 
PZI worked great for us, Lantus works great for tons as well, which ever is easier to get I would go with.... great literature on both.... Canada is the same...vets immediately go to caninuslin, my vet didn't even know there were other options.
 
cellosmom said:
PZI worked great for us, Lantus works great for tons as well, which ever is easier to get I would go with.... great literature on both.... Canada is the same...vets immediately go to caninuslin, my vet didn't even know there were other options.
Click to expand...

i find that concerning that most vets over here and prob in canada seem to have no clue with feline diabetes seeming as it is more common now as well, my Tilly had gone in for general check up and he told me she might have an infection but nothing to worry about unless she shows signs then suddenly she's in vet hospital for 4 days on a drip not eating and i wasn't even told what was wrong with her till i lost my cool with the receptionist and she got the senior vet to call me and she should of had antibiotics when there was even a suspicion of an infection
 
cellosmom said:
PZI worked great for us, Lantus works great for tons as well, which ever is easier to get I would go with.... great literature on both.... Canada is the same...vets immediately go to caninuslin, my vet didn't even know there were other options.
Click to expand...

My vet (Nova Scotia) immediately prescribes Lantus or Levemir. She has never used Caninsulin. The word is getting out there.
 
KarenRamboConan said:
cellosmom said:
PZI worked great for us, Lantus works great for tons as well, which ever is easier to get I would go with.... great literature on both.... Canada is the same...vets immediately go to caninuslin, my vet didn't even know there were other options.
Click to expand...

My vet (Nova Scotia) immediately prescribes Lantus or Levemir. She has never used Caninsulin. The word is getting out there.
Click to expand...

Wow i wish i could move to your area and have your vet lol
 
This issue is that US vets are using Lantus/Lev off-label. It isn't approved for use in animals, it is a human insulin. Many of the vets in other countries can only prescribe the those insulins approved for animals in animals at first and only once they are proven ineffective can they go off-label. I believe some have gotten to a point of getting Lantus, but it took a while - with a progressive vet, and it would need to be picked up elsewhere since it is not a medicine a vet can dispense since it is only approved as a human medicine. Part of the problem with that is that Lantus has its best shot at remission when it is prescribed to newly diagnosed cats so the time spent trying out other insulins can be reducing that chance.

The US version of Caninsulin was proven poorly manufactured. I don't know if that is true for the stuff manufactued elsewhere. Hopefully you can get the vet to give you some form of longer lasting insulin, whether it be an animal or one of the human insulins, so that she can flatten out and feel better.
 
KarenRamboConan said:
cellosmom said:
PZI worked great for us, Lantus works great for tons as well, which ever is easier to get I would go with.... great literature on both.... Canada is the same...vets immediately go to caninuslin, my vet didn't even know there were other options.
Click to expand...

My vet (Nova Scotia) immediately prescribes Lantus or Levemir. She has never used Caninsulin. The word is getting out there.
Click to expand...

oh that is great! some of my friends in vet school say they talk about lantus (glargine) now, so that's good news! I want to find a more progressive practise to go to. Notably PZI legitimately isn't available in Canada unless you get it compounded.... which I did :-D
 
over here the vets are very backwards thats how we do it over here we move backwards lol

They don't like to experiment with things
 
In Canada, you don't need a prescription to purchase any insulins, so you can buy whatever you like.
Some vets may know little or nothing about human insulins, but there are some who do. You just have to find a vet that knows about using Lantus or Levemir.
 
Gayle and Shadoe said:
In Canada, you don't need a prescription to purchase any insulins, so you can buy whatever you like.
Some vets may know little or nothing about human insulins, but there are some who do. You just have to find a vet that knows about using Lantus or Levemir.
Click to expand...

You do need a prescription to get it compounded, is. BCP PZI isn't available even to vets to just "order" so to speak, so you need a script to get the company to make it. But had she not agreed to this I would have just gone to the pharmacy, bought lantus, and used the good folks here as help!
 
Lantus is available over the counter in Canada. If you can get someone there to buy it for you and bring it to England, you can not have to deal with the difficult vet.
 
The information that Vicky provided is a summary of the dosing protocol developed by researchers (primarily Jacqui Rand, DVM) at University of Queensland. I'm attaching a copy of the research study that was published in a leading vet journal. Some vets respond better when you hand them a peer-reviewed publication from one of their respected journals.
 

Attachments

Well spoke to my vet today and have got him to change Tilly's insulin to hypurin PZI insulin she is going in tomorrow for the day to switch
 
With diabetes being so common in cats these days it really surprises me how little vets seem to know. Mine was so concerned about Kazi's micro dose being accurate that she suggested diluting the lantus. My previous vet didn't see an issue with keeping Kazi on Vetsulin despite the major FDA warnings out at the time. It now isn't even available for purchase because of the issues raised in those warnings. Makes you want to do a face palm right then and there. :?
 
Amanda said:
With diabetes being so common in cats these days it really surprises me how little vets seem to know. Mine was so concerned about Kazi's micro dose being accurate that she suggested diluting the lantus. My previous vet didn't see an issue with keeping Kazi on Vetsulin despite the major FDA warnings out at the time. It now isn't even available for purchase because of the issues raised in those warnings. Makes you want to do a face palm right then and there. :?
Click to expand...

lol i know sometimes i feel like they're p[laying the guessing game, well it could be this that to the other, and I'm constantly feeling like a stalker cause i had to become a real pain in the ass to get them to change the insulin. All the nurses and receptionist s know my voice. They are making her come in for the day though to switch insulins I'm not sure if that is over kill or normal
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top