Tigger!

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Marje and Gracie said:
Fortiflora is made by Purina and contains animal digest which is not good for cats. Some cats like the taste of it if you are using it only as a topper but I prefer higher quality products as toppers like freeze dried chicken that you can make into a “dust” with a Magic Bullet.

If you are wanting a probiotic, I prefer the products from Renew Life. For my cats (and us), I use the Ultimate Flora 15b CFU at a dose of 1/2 cal twice a day.

If you can please go back to your inbox (Upper right corner...click on “inbox”) to the message I sent you there yesterday and send me the info, I’ll do your spreadsheet today. We cannot give you the best dosing advice for him without it. The way the dose was taken up, it’s possible he’s overdosed but we can’t tell without the spreadsheet. If the dose is correct, by chance, we can tell you if and when you might need to do the tests at MSU.

It’s also good that you read back through this thread to be sure you got all the suggestions.
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Thanks soo much! Did you get my readings? I just sent them to you
 
Constance OBrien said:
Thanks Guys for all your help!! I am inputing Tigs readings thus far today now. He was hungry before his 12:30 reading so I put out Whole Hearted Tuna Pate in gravy( not much gravy I can see ) They were giving out samples so I grabbed 2 yesterday .. Well after snubbing his nose yesterday at every can of wet food i bought .. topped with everything suggested by Dr. Lisa.. He GOBBLED all of this whole hearted wet food up just now !!!!!!!! Does anyone know anything about this brand? This is the first out of literally 30 different cans brands etc... that he has eaten other than the fussie cat anchovies that the vet told me to stop. Is this a victory???
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Constance, I couldn't find the brand on Dr. Pierson's food chart, but I did find WholeHearted Grain Free Tuna Recipe Flaked in Gravy All Life Stages Wet Cat Food, All LIfe Stages 5.5 oz on the PetCo website. Was this what you found for Tigger? It is grain free, but probably not low carb. But, it is wet food and that's a step in a very right direction! One step at a time! As you go forward, you could probably mix in a half to one tsp of low carb food in a serving, very gradually increasing the amount of the low carb food. It may just be a matter of getting him used to a new texture. This is a victory, and hopefully you will eventually be able to transition him to an all low carb wet food. Be patient, you know how independent our cats can be.
 
Constance OBrien said:
Thanks soo much! Did you get my readings? I just sent them to you
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I haven’t received anything from you in my Inbox here or gmail. I don’t need the BG readings; in the private message I sent to your FDMB inbox and in the gmail email, I sent you a list of things I do need to do the SS. I can’t do it without those things so please check back into your FDMB Inbox for the message from me or your gmail.

It will only take me a few minutes to do the SS which will greatly benefit Tigger so we can help you get to the correct dose.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I haven’t received anything from you in my Inbox here or gmail. I don’t need the BG readings; in the private message I sent to your FDMB inbox and in the gmail email, I sent you a list of things I do need to do the SS. I can’t do it without those things so please check back into your FDMB Inbox for the message from me or your gmail.

It will only take me a few minutes to do the SS which will greatly benefit Tigger so we can help you get to the correct dose.
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Idjit's mom said:
Constance, I couldn't find the brand on Dr. Pierson's food chart, but I did find WholeHearted Grain Free Tuna Recipe Flaked in Gravy All Life Stages Wet Cat Food, All LIfe Stages 5.5 oz on the PetCo website. Was this what you found for Tigger? It is grain free, but probably not low carb. But, it is wet food and that's a step in a very right direction! One step at a time! As you go forward, you could probably mix in a half to one tsp of low carb food in a serving, very gradually increasing the amount of the low carb food. It may just be a matter of getting him used to a new texture. This is a victory, and hopefully you will eventually be able to transition him to an all low carb wet food. Be patient, you know how independent our cats can be.
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Constance OBrien said:
I spoke tooo soon on the wet food! He snubbed his nose at it for dinner!!! UGH!
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Keep trying with the wet food, perhaps just offer a spoonful or two, let it sit for a bit, without offering the dry at the same time. Perhaps he will be hungry enough to eat the wet food first, then he can have some dry. Does he like tuna juice (the water drained from water packed tuna)? Maybe dribble a little over the wet food. I have also read that warming the wet food increases the aroma, and that might help. He's a stubborn one!
 
Leo gets Zobaline daily. Just crush it up with mortar and pestle. Then sprinkle on some wet food. I move the spoon through it to get it mixed in the top layer. It is tasteless. I give him one tablet/day. Humans can take it too. You can taste it from the remnants of the grinding - and to me it is tasteless.
 
Goodmorning guys! I think I have finally gotten the spreadsheet on this site?!! I tested Tiggers Sugar before he ate this morning( He had a few kernals) was 192.. ( Before Insulin)Usually It is way higher. It is early for him though to be up. He woke me he was so hungry. He went right to his box after I tested him and peed alot.... I am going to give him his insulin ..I am baffled by this low number but then I have never tested him before he has eaten. Tig is peed so much this am it was quite alot. I do not know what to do. I have ordered all the food ya'll suggested and am on my way to get the wet again at Walmart. Does anyone think I need to get any tests run at the vet ?Or take him to the vet?
He is struggling so much with his walking this am also.
 
Tigger's neuropathy will take awhile to resolve. The Zobaline B12 along with BG regulation are key to fixing that issue. Many cats recover from neuropathy, but not all do. With Leo, it took 3-4 months.
 
I just did Tiggers gluecose for 5hrs after he had his shot and it is 143.... It has never been that low . I did give him some rawturkey for midmorning food rather than his Hills M/D I wonder if that made any difference. Should I be alarmed ? He was also at 193 before his breakfast which he has also never started that low. However I have never tested him before his food.
 
I don't think you should be alarmed, just observant. I looked on the spreadsheet and noted that you didn't enter the insulin dose, so you didn't shoot, right? Giving the Hill's M/D dry is like giving a human diabetic a sugar doughnut, so of course the BG is going to be higher with that food. The raw turkey meat is almost pure protein, so he didn't get the carbs for his meal/snack, so that reading is going to be lower. That's why we want our diabetic cats on low carb food.
It's a good idea to withhold food for 2 hours before the morning/evening pre-shot test and each insulin injection. That way the BG is not food influenced. Test, feed, shoot. Then if you can test during the day, you can feed as usual, just note when, what and how much food in the comments section.
So he likes raw turkey? Has he had any other raw meats? I know you have had trouble with getting him to eat canned food, perhaps a raw diet would work for him, but it's a long transition process to prevent gastric upset.
It would be great if you could get him on low carb (I know you have been trying) and giving much less insulin.
 
The chart will only color the BG cells if they have whole numbers in them. So the addition of the time messes that up. When I do a BG test, I usually round up to the next hour and just put in the test result.

You can get a feel for other cats and their ranges by looking at some other charts. Many people target 80-100 for the nadir. My Leo is not a good example because his BG varies a lot.
 
Idjit's mom said:
I don't think you should be alarmed, just observant. I looked on the spreadsheet and noted that you didn't enter the insulin dose, so you didn't shoot, right? Giving the Hill's M/D dry is like giving a human diabetic a sugar doughnut, so of course the BG is going to be higher with that food. The raw turkey meat is almost pure protein, so he didn't get the carbs for his meal/snack, so that reading is going to be lower. That's why we want our diabetic cats on low carb food.
It's a good idea to withhold food for 2 hours before the morning/evening pre-shot test and each insulin injection. That way the BG is not food influenced. Test, feed, shoot. Then if you can test during the day, you can feed as usual, just note when, what and how much food in the comments section.
So he likes raw turkey? Has he had any other raw meats? I know you have had trouble with getting him to eat canned food, perhaps a raw diet would work for him, but it's a long transition process to prevent gastric upset.
It would be great if you could get him on low carb (I know you have been trying) and giving much less insulin.
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I bought a bunch of can food today too but I opened the turkey to put away in tupperware and he freaked so I gave hime some.
Thanks! How do I know how much insulin? I have just been giving what the vet said. Should I keep at 5 until I get him on wet /completely off Hills?
 
Constance, I am sorry, I can't advise on dosing insulin. I'm just not qualified or experienced enough. The experienced Lantus users are going to need as much data as possible, that's the testing results on the spreadsheet and you are just getting started with that. I'm going to tag a few of the experienced Lantus users to review what's been going on and perhaps they can advise you. @Wendy&Neko @Kris & Teasel @Marje and Gracie

I know you are doing what the vet is telling you, unfortunately not all vets are well educated with feline diabetes, and we do not yet know if Tigger actually has a condition that requires high doses of insulin. That is what the tests the vet wanted are for. Basics such as appropriate diet, right insulin and doses, and home testing need to be sorted out first.
You are testing now, and working on the diet. You are just getting used to the diabetes treatment and you are now learning to navigate on this board. You probably feel like a cat on a hot tin roof! So, remember to breathe and be kind to yourself. It's new, it's hard, but it's doable.
 
I can see your spreadsheet and that's great. Right now the BG level is very likely high because of the dry food. Here's an example of another member's (recent) experience: her diabetic kitty was eating Royal Canin Urinary S/O wet food and dry food for bladder issues that had developed a long time ago. They resolved years ago but the kitty was on that high carb diet still and her vet was suggesting an insulin dose increase from 5 units up to 6 units of Lantus because the BGs were still very high. Another member and I have been coaching her through the food transition. That kitty is now eating low carb Fancy Feast almost 100% of the time, she has some dark green numbers on the spreadsheet and kitty is down to 0.5 u per dose and likely needs another reduction soon.

Moral of the story: try really hard to make that food switch or at least find some low carb kibble like Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein.

This is a good read: https://catinfo.org/docs/TipsForTransitioning1-14-11.pdf
 
You see that AMPS column to the left side of the spreadsheet? That is your AM preshot blood test value and should read 192 for today, as you stated earlier. Are you giving insulin at night too? If so, the U or Units column needs to have the dose given written there.

We like to see the colour coding on the spreadsheets, not the time of the tests. That 143 was 5 hours after the shot, so should go in the +5 column for today. We don’t use time of day on our spreadsheets because people here are from literally all over the world and different time zones. What is important is the length of time after the shot that the test was. Plus writing the time does away with the colour coding.

I cannot comment on dose based on the spreadsheet and data as is. Let’s fix the spreadsheet and gather more data.

What type of treats are you currently giving? You want to find some low carb treats that he loves.
 
AMPS = (time value) A.M. PreShot blood glucose value
PMPS = (time value) P.M. PreShot blood glucose value

A small light bulb came on for me when I saw those definitions a few years ago. I guess this forum is probably the only one that uses those acronyms.
 
Hopefully I am posting this properly I did not realize I had posted a question
in private so please alert me everyone if I am not following procedure. It is taking me a bit to get the swing of this . I am not tech savy. I will try and get the spreadsheet fixed when I meet with my daughter. this Friday. It is quite complicated.
I ordered the clean protein for Tigger and the Zob tablets. I am happy to report he is eating the dry clean protein chicken as well as sliced turkey.
I noticed that the calorie content is higher than the Hills dry M/D ... He is getting about 3/4 a cup a day. I tried every wet can flavor that friskies FF make last week including heating it up & all the suggestions that the link from the Dr. that was posted in the forum. I will continue working on it. Anyway longwinded question regarding the clean protein, I cannot find the carb content on the clean protein chicken vs Hills m/d. Does anyone know? Does anyone know how long it will take to see if the Zob. tabs are working?
I have been told via a user that I cannot ask questions regarding insulin are there any other questions or a place on this site with the rules? I certainly do not want to not post correctly or ask questions that I should not ask. Thankyou for your input in advance.
 
I forgot this question regarding the spreadsheet. What I have done is incorrect with the spreadsheet so when My daughter helps me with it I have no idea what cells or amps are . Can someone tell me what that is? I have no idea. I only know what units he gets 2x day and what his test says when I prick him.
Thankyou.
 
Here’s a post that explains the spreadsheet
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/
See if that makes sense, if not post any questions and we’ll try to answer them.
I’m glad Tigger likes the Dr Elseys food. I don’t know the carb content, but understand that it’s low enough for our diabetics. Do keep trying with the wet though as it’s a much better choice.
While Zobaline will help Tiggers neuropathy, getting his diabetes under control is the most important part of correcting it, but hopefully you’ll see some improvement in the coming weeks.
You can ask questions about insulin on the open forum, just not in a private message. That way everyone can see the question and answer and correct or add to the given info.
 
Sharon14 said:
Here’s a post that explains the spreadsheet
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/
See if that makes sense, if not post any questions and we’ll try to answer them.
I’m glad Tigger likes the Dr Elseys food. I don’t know the carb content, but understand that it’s low enough for our diabetics. Do keep trying with the wet though as it’s a much better choice.
While Zobaline will help Tiggers neuropathy, getting his diabetes under control is the most important part of correcting it, but hopefully you’ll see some improvement in the coming weeks.
You can ask questions about insulin on the open forum, just not in a private message. That way everyone can see the question and answer and correct or add to the given info.
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Thankyou for your response . When I get the spreadshhet done I post it to the message board is that correct?
Not really sure what the importance is? Except for me to monitor his levels. The general consensus seems to be the only way I can help Tigger and his Diebetes is to hopefully get him on wet food. Which right now is not looking good.
 
Idjit's mom said:
Constance, I am sorry, I can't advise on dosing insulin. I'm just not qualified or experienced enough. The experienced Lantus users are going to need as much data as possible, that's the testing results on the spreadsheet and you are just getting started with that. I'm going to tag a few of the experienced Lantus users to review what's been going on and perhaps they can advise you. @Wendy&Neko @Kris & Teasel @Marje and Gracie

I know you are doing what the vet is telling you, unfortunately not all vets are well educated with feline diabetes, and we do not yet know if Tigger actually has a condition that requires high doses of insulin. That is what the tests the vet wanted are for. Basics such as appropriate diet, right insulin and doses, and home testing need to be sorted out first.
You are testing now, and working on the diet. You are just getting used to the diabetes treatment and you are now learning to navigate on this board. You probably feel like a cat on a hot tin roof! So, remember to breathe and be kind to yourself. It's new, it's hard, but it's doable.
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Thankyou for taking the time to respond .. I appreciate the support
 
The spreadsheet is linked in your signature, so all we have to do is click on the link to see Tiggers glucose numbers. The spreadsheet will help you and us to see how well the dose of Lantus is working, and whether he needs more or less insulin. You are helping Tigger by monitoring his glucose levels and getting him on the lowest carb food he will eat. You’re doing a great job!
 
JeffJ said:
AMPS = (time value) A.M. PreShot blood glucose value
PMPS = (time value) P.M. PreShot blood glucose value

A small light bulb came on for me when I saw those definitions a few years ago. I guess this forum is probably the only one that uses those acronyms.
Click to expand...
Thankyou for your reply.
Sharon14 said:
The spreadsheet is linked in your signature, so all we have to do is click on the link to see Tiggers glucose numbers. The spreadsheet will help you and us to see how well the dose of Lantus is working, and whether he needs more or less insulin. You are helping Tigger by monitoring his glucose levels and getting him on the lowest carb food he will eat. You’re doing a great job!
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Thankyou!
 
Tigger will be healthier longterm as a result of your efforts now. A lot of ramp-up (hours) is needed to get the diabetes sugar dance under control. But over time it really just becomes part of the routine, example:
- test Leo
- feed him and dose him
- brush sweet Leo
- test him
- get leg loving's from Leo

The spreadsheet helps establish long term and near term trends. It will help you, and help us give dosing and feeding advice.
 
Hey Guys! So I tested Tig before insulin and food and he was 164!! He has never been that low.. Then he got his 5 units and I tested him a few hours later and it was 70!!!!! It is 6:30 and feeding time and insulin time and he is 115 ! I called the vet because I am scared to give him 5 units... I got the Dr. kelsy clean chicken and have been giving him sandwhich turkey meat. I have never seen these low numbers!!! Clearly the Hills m/d has to be a link like ya'll said.
 
He will not touch any can but I am trying.. I figured turkey ok he snubs at it sometimes but he has been eating the turkey and The dry clean chicken for about a week
 
I wouldn't shoot 5U into a PMPS of 112 without having a lot more data

But without having your spreadsheet updated and correct, it's hard to say what you should do.

In the end, it's safer for Tigger for you to skip than to shoot 5U..especially since you've gotten the high carb dry out of the picture
 
I actually just did the spreadsheet with the only data I have collected so far. I beleive it is correct. I have only doen one reading since I began this jorney with Tigger after his dinner.
Thankyou for your input . Greatly appreciated
 
Agree with Chris on skipping the dose.

If possible, please do PMPS tests everyday. They help establish the ongoing trend. You need to know he is sufficiently high enough before each dose anyhow. For example, let's say someday you test PMPS (evening pre-shot) and you find he is 120. That probably means he is too low to dose that night unless he is having real regular numbers and is highly regulated.
 
Constance OBrien said:
I actually just did the spreadsheet with the only data I have collected so far. I beleive it is correct
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That's much better, thank you!!

It's really important that you also get tests before the PM shot....as you saw today, if you didn't test and gave that much insulin without knowing he was so low, it could have been tragic.

Also, most cats go lower at night, so it's important to get at least a "before bed" test on the PM cycle to keep him safe.
 
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