TIFIL DKA advice please

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I believe that Jess addressed this in one of her posts. Fluids can be given either IV (intravenous -- into the vein) or subcutaneously (sub-q; under the skin). When sub-q fluids are given, there is a big fluid bulge, usually under or around the armpit. As the fluids are needed, they are absorbed. It's fine. When people here administer fluids, they do so subcutaneously. The vast majority of people here do not know how to stick a needle into a vein.

If there is a student there, he or she should know how to make friends with a very stressed cat. You would think just sitting quietly with Tifil and talking to her, offering a treat, etc. might be a way to help her calm down with a new person.
 
((((((((((Isil and Tifil)))))))))) The Ringers lactate is often given under the skin by pet owners at home, so there is no problem. I think that it is just much faster to rehydrate a cat if given IV. Sub Q will still help her, but right now IV would be faster results.

My first cat Cleo (GA) had a bad rep at her vet. He called her the Beast! She would go crazy there, but was the friendliest cat outside the clinic. After we moved and Cleo was at the vet in ICU w/ no problems there. Then we had to be away for a weekend and boarded her at the vet, she went nuts again. it turns out it was being close to other cats there, when the separated her back to the ICU area even w/ dogs nearby she was fine! With Tifil it could be a combination of pain and upset at the different surroundings.
 
ISIL&TIFIL said:
second problem: Tıfıl is biting and scratching every humun being except me, so the intern student staying tonight said that he can't force feed her and he can't check blood sugar tonight :(
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Isil,

I know w/Tawny, she was good and tolerated all kinds of handling but when they put her NG feeding tube in twice they had to be careful not to sedate her too much (or at all?) b/c her potassium levels were too low for sedation.

Depending on where Tifil is with all her other issues, can they give her s/thg to calm her down, or can they not b/c her potassium level or s/thg else? When they put Tawny's e-tube in they did not put her under completely but they only lightly sedated her, she was awake the whole time the vet said. In fact they had to wait a couple of days for her potassium levels to normalize b4 they could even do it.

Have they tried wrapping her in a towel kitty-burrito style? I have a cat that has a bad wound on his face that I am treating and I must wrap him up really tight in a towel and hold him down in order to tend to the wound and help him heal. Any other time he is a big Mommie's baby and just as sweet and mellow as he can be.

Maybe some of the experts here will come on and post about giving Tifil s/thg to calm her without putting her in danger.

I don't know if this is possible, it's just a query.

It's good you got her to eat. Do you think you can get her to eat a little bit every 2-3 hours until you go back to the vet's in the morning? Keeping calories in her will help fight the ketones. With Tawny's e-tube when she was DKA she had to be tube fed 20-30mls every 2-3 hours overnight.
 
Isil,

Sienne is right, here is what Jess (I think she works as a vet tech) posted about this earlier:

Jess & Earl said:
...IV fluids are fluids that are attached to the vein. Fluids can also be put under the skin, then it is called SQ fluids. You can do SQ fluids at home but not IV fluids. To make it confusing, sometimes the same type of fluids can be given SQ or IV. All fluids given IV or SQ have electrolytes in them, otherwise they would just be sterile water (which can be harmful) and no one gives plain water.
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I don't know anything about this but from what the others have posted it looks like it's fine.
 
Isil, I admire you for being so persistent in getting care for Tifil. I hope this vet turns out to be one you'll be comfortable working with. You deserve to find a good vet partner who can help you help Tifil.

I actually think it seems like a good sign that Tifil is fighting the vets. If she were too weak or sick, she might not have the energy to scratch them. I remember when Lucy was DKA, the day she finally felt well enough to try to bite the vet and run away, the whole staff cheered. :lol: We never thought she would survive, let alone put up a fight. Keep up your strength - you are doing a great job.
 
thrilled beyond belief that you've found a good vet! that's such great news - and i hope more good news about Tifil is coming soon. many hugs, isil!
 
Merhaba Isil,

So glad to hear you feel good about the new vet. I hope he will be the one.
I agree with Libby - it may be a good sign that Tifil is fighting the vets!

Sending healing thoughts to Tifil and hoping for a speedy recovery. :YMHUG:
 
So happy to hear you have found this vet, Isil. Sending prayers that he will be able to make Tifil well again. Sending you hugs and prayers.
 
I agree with Libby too, Vyktor's file from his DKA admission says "increasingly cranky through the day indicating he is feeling better".

It is very hard to watch your baby when they are scared and angry like that but it is a good sign.
 
Hello
Today she got 150 ml of lactated ringer from the vein (at last). It's 2pm now and I came from the vet to my moms house (very close to the vet) to write the new news...
In the morning her amps was 247, +1.5 258, (fluids) +3 320 :(
After I shot her I feeded her but she vomitted all of it so the vet gave her an injection for her stomach (He also gave it yesterday).

They tested her ketones in the morning and it is still +++ :(
Is something going wrong,why didn't it reduce alittle :(

After tıfıl got the fluids I force feeded her, she didn't throw up but I don't know what happened after I came home...

I will go back and force feed her again...
I am planning to take her home tonight and take her to the vet in the morning.
The vet said maybe it is better for her to stay there but I told him that the intern vet who stays through the night isn't capable for testing bg's and force feeding...


So I know I have asked this before but I want to ask it again to be sure, while having a dka medication, how much fluid did your cats get for I day?
Somebody said 150ml, is this enough?
I mean, if tıfıl doesn't take the fluids during the night will it be bad for her because the vet is not giving her fluids through the night, even if she stays there, he doesn't think it is necessary...but I am confused and I want to be sure,,,how much iv fluids does she need per day?
 
Hi Isil,
I can't answer your question about how much fluids should be given (but many of the people here have experience with fluids and they will certainly be able to answer). I want to tell you what a great advocate you are for Tifil and how happy I am that you have finally found a vet who will work with you. Sending many healing vines and many hugs to you and Tifil today,

Ella & Rusty
 
There isn't a specific daily amount. It depends on what your cat's needs are. This is why Jess stressed you need to have a vet who is seeing your cat and can make these kinds of assessments.

Also, if your are testing urinary ketones, it can take a while for the ketone levels to change. Unlike a blood ketone test, when testing via urine, the wastes need to collect and your cat's bladder has to fill. A blood ketone test will give you information about where the ketone level is at the moment whereas with urinary ketones it's a level over several hours.

Isil -- could you start a new thread. This one is getting very long.
 
Isil,

Two quick things: I agree w/Sienne about starting a new thread b/c this one has gotten so long. Just be sure to post a link to this thread at the top of your new thread so people can quickly find it and go back and look at it if need be. Do you know how to do this? PM me if you don't, or ask the board b/c I will be offline part of the day. I'm sure anyone here will be glad to help you w/that.

Also, on the "force feeding", you know by know that I have just gone thru s/thg similar w/Tawny. One thing I learned from Karrie (& Maverick) and from joining a Yahoo forum she recommended, the FAF group, is that if we think of this as "Assist Feeding" rather than "force feeding" it is easier on you and your cat. Make it a bonding time. Pet her, talk to her, make it a good experience, not a forced experience. In fact I believe "FAF" stands for "Feline Assisted Feeding". Try thinking of it that way, it may help, and if the vets and techs see that you have started calling it "assist" rather than "force" they might learn s/thg about "making friends" with cats.

Also I use a Precision Xtra meter to test blood ketones (BBK) on both my diabetic cats, Tinkerbell and Tawny. It is true that that will give you a better picture of what is "going on right now" as opposed to the urine ketones, which as Sienne said, have to collect in the bladder and may have been sitting there awhile. So the ketones may be clearing but w/out a BBK (beta blood ketone) test it is difficult to tell, b/c you don't know how long the urine has been sitting there, it could be registering what was going on w/Tifil 3 or 4 hours ago.

You are doing so great and Tifil is so lucky to have such a strong bean as you fighting for her. You keep on going girl!
 
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