Thumper 5/25 gonna need advice

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Barbara

Barbara

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AMPS - 279
shot 1 Unit - DH was supposed to put frozen food out today but forgot...imagine that. :roll:
PMPS - 125 hate to think how low she might have gone! I'm waiting 20 mins but doubt she will get up to 200 & they are all hungry since they haven't had anything in 12 hrs. I don't think I can wait much after the 20 mins & she needs her antibiotic, I crush that in her food. Will be back with the next reading.
 
Wish I could help.

Hopefully someone will be around shortly! How is she feeling today?
 
She's waiting by the food bowl right now! I just got home but my daughter said she seemed fine when she got here. I really don't know if she eats during the day anyway but it really annoys me that he didn't put the food out.
 
Barbara it's ok, feed her.
You can check again in an hour..even 2.
You can lower the dose if necessary.
Feed your kitties.
You can't hold out just becuase her numbers are low.
That's not fair to them.
 
BG is only 129 now 25 mins later....what's really crazy to me is I did a ketone blood check & it's 2.3, the highest it's been. I've gotta feed her. Why is she all over the map & why in the heck are ketones higher??
 
Barbara, I don't know why. You could test again to be sure. I don't know for sure if anything besides high blood glucose would cause ketones.
She is feeling well yes?
When is her vet appt.?
 
She seems to be fine, she just got her 3rd antibiotic in the food she's eating now. My daughter said she jumped on the bed with her when she got home & was talking to her. She was hanging out by the food bowl waiting for supper & is eating well. She just seems to be abnormal about everything I read on here. confused_cat
 
Barbara as well as the steady flow of fluids it is equally important that she eats well. For ketones.
 
If she hasn't eaten in 12 hours, then the food will definitely make her rise. If you are up for testing tonight, I'd actually suggest going ahead and feeding and shooting.

No food could cause the ketones to spike. This is only the second day of antibiotics, so that infection is still raging. Ketones spike for no reason sometimes too, that's why you have to keep a diligent watch on them when they reach this level.
 
Really? Feed and shoot into a 120ish BG?

Barbara, you can't shoot Prozinc into a BG of 120 anything at this point. The food will raise her bg's so just keep testing her and lets see how much she rises and go from there. You don't really want to skip the shot completly.
 
Ok, it's been about an hour since she ate. Should I test her now or still wait awhile. Yeah, I'm afraid to shoot a 129.
 
Thumper hasn't eaten in 12 hours, which is the only reason I'd recommend it. If it had been only like 4 hours, then no, I would not recommend it. You can always feed and test 30 min later before you shoot. But I still maintain that you should be safe feeding and shooting tonight.
 
yeah, go ahead and test. good to catch her on the way up. before she goes too high.
 
She is now at 206. She ate 1/2 can FF which is her normal amount about an hour & 15 mins ago. I have to do her morning shot in 10.5 hours.
 
You are probably safe with the 1u dose. If you want to play it safe, you can back down to 0.8u and give her 1u at the regular morning time tomorrow. Either way, you'll probably be fine.
 
Kelly, I don't get the ketone thing. If they spike then go back down how do you know when the kitty is in trouble? Like I got this high reading but she really seems to be improving. And no other symptoms.
 
I would shoot the unit. Keeping him low is such a priority now. Not hypo,,,but low.
 
Barbara the ketones are present when the body uses itself as food and not the food it is normally feeding off of.
To put it as plainly as possible.
It is toxic.
So,,,it is very fluid in it's reading, especially in the blood. Depending of what the body is processing at that time.
The urine is hours later so more steady.
Does that make any sense.
 
About shooting the 1 unit....she was 150 points lower PMPS from AMPS. If she's only at 206 now & I don't know what effect, if any the antibiotic is having, is that still safe?
 
Barbara,,,this is how I look at it. If it is too much you will know in just a couple of hours...and it is fairly easy to steer and correct.
If you shoot too little there is no correcting and you may be higher than we want for Thump.
I'll stay with you if you want.
 
She is in here eating again & I have some high carb on hand....and I'm on prednisone myself & I see it says it might cause trouble sleeping....LOL!
 
ya know...browsing at your ss you just aren't used to seeing green.
Thump can go down to 50 if need be by his nadar and not need intervention.
I will stay with you.
And you can steer numbers so gently that you won't ruin the cycle by over reacting...kwim?
 
Whip Cream would only be used for something sudden and dramatic...let's not go there. Just medium carb food...maybe high carb.
 
She's only going to go higher as the food works its way into the system before the insulin takes effect. You have shot a 222 and a 215 before without flinching. This is a different situation than normal because of no food for 12 hours, so you can't look at it like a normal pmps number.

Re ketones - they are an issue when they spike - but you know they spike and subside a lot right now. The key is controlling the spikes so that they don't become worse and become an emergency situation. After feeding and insulin, I bet if you test tonight before you go to bed, they will be lower. With no food in the body, the body had to rely on its own stores for food, which is where the ketones came from.
 
A late shot equals a dose decrease, an early shot equals a dose increase. The insulin is in and out of her system within about 12 hours.

Don't do anything that you are uncomfortable with. You hold the syringe and you have been doing this long enough to have a sense of what you are doing and how this works.
 
Just to clarify - you don't need to give medium or high carb food right now - just low carb until we see something drastically different.
 
Rob - this was a late shot due to not having food for 12 hours. It doesn't play by the same rules as a regular cycle.
 
I hope this plays out ok....I shot the 1 unit cause I'm a bit concerned about her not going higher because of the ketone issue. I want to get that under control. I'm ok since I'm with her tonight & can get her to eat BUT I'm a little concerned she will be low in the morning still & I'll have to leave for work. I will only have about 1.5 hrs to play with & then won't be with her all day. I wouldn't be as comfortable shooting the 1 unit on a 200 since I have to leave her....I don't think????

Kelly, I think that makes a little more sense to me about the ketones & no food all day. I've never been able to know if she eats at all during the day, I've always kinda figured the others got to it first since she's so lazy but today I know for sure since someone forgot to put their food out!
 
No this was a late shot because her PMPS was 125.

"It doesn't play by the same rules as a regular cycle" What rule book is that from?
 
She was at 125 at the regular pmps time because she didn't have food all day. Theoretically, if she had gotten to food mid cycle, the pmps would not have been so low, and the shot wouldn't have had to be delayed. A kitty will zoom up if they eat for the first time in a long time, which is why it is ok to shoot the regular dose imo. If the cycle conditions were normal, then yes, a abnormally low pmps would indicate a dose decrease. There are exceptions and special circumstances that have to be considered. You cannot use the same guidelines for every single cycle when there are extenuating circumstances, such as what happened tonight.
 
I promised to stay with you but I'm logging off for an hour or so...If you need someone I hope you have my phone number. I will be back tho' in an hour or less and I doubt you'll see any action by then.
Please dear Barbara...don't Overreact to any lower numbers or even falling numbers as you may just abort the whole cycle and I'd really hate to see you do that.
 
Barbara - if she is low in the morning, then you will have to skip a shot imo. You can't be around to make sure she eats and to check up on her. But we will cross that bridge when we get to it. What time do you usually shot in the morning? What time zone are you?
 
How bout we see how good she does with one u tonight...she may do beautifully on it right?
 
I'm eastern & usually shoot about 6:30 am & pm but don't get up cause of me! I don't leave home till about 7:45 or 8:00 if I'm pushing it so I can test then wait for awhile to see if she rises.

I'm probably not gonna even test her for another hour & 1/2...that will be a +2 so I'm pretty sure she'll be okay. Thanks ladies!
 
That should be more than fine.

I have been giving Oscar his shot around 7:15 am/pm, so I can check in around that time.
 
Ok, I'm off for a bit....gotta get some stuff done while she has other awake people to watch her. I'll be back later.
 
Woohoo, a breakthrough!!!! FINALLY! YAY! Looks like I missed an exciting evening!

I agree with shooting on the lower # - not normally, but you have a rising #, a late shot (so effect of the insulin will be reduced), and ketones. I think she will be just fine - the dose is a fairly low one. I would just make sure she has food out every cycle so if she did head a little on the lower side she will just eat to balance the insulin.

When you are back on 12/12, I would consider going with a skinny 1u to aim for a shootable # every 12 hrs. Going with the full 1u on a +12 seems like you are likely to end up off schedule. Fine if your schedule permits, but figuring it doesn't...
 
+2 BG is 274
Ketones 1.8

I'm thinking she might be ok to leave alone for the night? I guess she does get up & eat during the day, that would explain the low reading tonight since there was no food available. I really always thought Petey would eat it all before she got to it and when I'm home she sure does sleep a lot during the day.
 
yeah, you can leave it alone for the night. Don't be too afraid to shoot in the am,,ok? you'll be fine.
 
I'm glad the ketones went back down a bit. There are just so many different things to think about. It really made sense to me that they should go down since BG was so low but I guess I understand the way Kelly explained it. I just don't know how I'm gonna ever get them down. I must admit I'm dissappointed her BG is going high....I wanted it to stay in the 100's. Hopefully I won't have to worry about the am shot. Thanks again!
 
Just remember that ketones have to do with not enough insulin rather than with high #s per se. That helps you focus more on the dose and less on the exact numbers. We've seen ketone kitties have their ketones come down and still have high #s in there, and we've seen kitties on moderate numbers end up with ketones. So while of course you don't want the higher numbers, I would keep your attention on the insulin dose and the ketone readings, and not let the BG #s throw you too much. It's good in a way that she is going higher b/c then you can feel comfortable shooting the dose. When they ride in lower #s I think there is a danger of undershooting out of fear, when we know from the ketones that she really does need the insulin.

If for some reason in the morning she is low you can post on Health if no one is here, and if you have a rising # over 120 I would consider shooting at least a half or 3/4 dose rather than skipping the shot. It will be early, right? So you don't want to be too daring, but at the same time I think you want some insulin in her during the day. Make sure there is food left out, and then you won't have to worry about it while you are gone. If her BG heads lowish she will eat. If you are worried it will get scarfed before she gets to it, leave out extra.

Looking forward to seeing lower & lower ketone readings, YAY! Very happy for you that you are seeing some nice blue numbers.
 
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