Thumper 4/29 LOW AMPS again

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Wow Barbara. I know it throws a wrench into your schedule but this is a good problem to have!
Hopefully Thumper comes up enuf to shoot your full dose :)
 
Yeah, and I was already running a few mins. late. 20 mins later she is 166. I have to feed them so I can get ready. Looks like a repeat of Tues. morning. I know no one is probably here....but just in case...what should I do?
 
Here is the official what to do from Gator:

Option 1) Wait and test.
When you get a Pre-Shot number under your no shoot of say 200 and you have very little data to support shooting at that number, you can "wait and test" instead of giving the usual dose or simply no shooting. Wait 30 minutes and test again. If the cat is over your chosen no shoot, 200 in this case, representing a rise in blood sugar values, you can shoot. It is best to avoid feeding during this wait time, so you do not get a rise in values due to the food. This will be a cycle when you do want to get some extra tests in to see if the low number is part of a pattern of lower BG values. Be sure to get a mid cycle test/number at your cat’s nadir if known. If not known, around 6 hours after the shot was given. If you get a low number at the preshot (80-150), you would follow the same procedure, but you would want to reduce the dose of insulin by as much as one half when the number has risen to 200. Also, if you are consistently needing to wait and test you may be time for a dose reduction. If you shoot late or early one cycle then likely you will be shooting early or late respectively the next cycle. Waiting and testing is a good compromise in safety and utility.

Option 2) No shoot.
This is just like it sounds. Don't shoot any insulin that cycle. The advantages of this is that it is simple and normally a pretty safe thing one can do [but is your cat "normal?"]. The disadvantages are that without insulin that cycle the kitty's blood glucose ["BG"] values will likely zoom up for the next cycle. This may slightly slow the regulation process by a few cycles as you try to bring the numbers back down from where they zoomed off too the next few cycles. Also, if one has a kitty with a history of ketones it can be important to keep at least some insulin going in their system. In the beginning this tactic can also lead to seesaw effects between cycles were they go to high then too low then to high etc.

Option 3) Shoot a reduced dose.
In the beginning this is the most "risky" option. Risky because you may not really have the data to know what your cat will do at any dose. Roughly conservative guidelines for this would be to shoot at least 1/3 your previous dose with a BG reading under 200 and at least 1/4 your previous dose with BG reading under 150. And by all means, as a beginner, do not shoot any insulin below a BG value of 100. There is no empirical evidence for these rough guidelines. It is best to consult with someone first though before you do this just to make sure this tactic would be right for your situation. If you choose this option it would be good to get at least a +3 test and a +6 test so you can watch for any dangerous lows) you know if your kitty will not be going too low that cycle and b) that you can use that data for later and maybe increase the guidelines the next time. Especially as a beginner it is important to try to shoot on a rising number, and with this strategy it can be sometimes difficult to tell if the number is really rising if you have not gotten any previous tests that cycle. This tactic is meant to reduce the amount seesaw effect of no shooting and slow any zooming up in BG values the next cycle. Using U100 syringes with U40 insulin and doing the conversion can assist with finding more consistent dose reduction increments.
You, the owner, is the one holding the syringe. Regardless of these approximate guidelines, the the choice of dose is your choice - you need to make sure you are making safe decisions for you kitty.
Gator & H (GA)
 
If it were my kitty I would do a reduced dose. I always felt I lost ground doing no shoots.
But, you must do what you feel safest with since you will be away from home.
I don’t feel qualified to tell you a dose since I’m not too familiar with your numbers :(
 
Thanks for sharing that info! I had to feed....45 mins after she ate she's at 181. I hate to skip the shot all together so I'm going to shoot .1 since she is rising & it's been a while since she ate. nailbite_smile
 
Yay Thumper.

I would either go with .1u again although it didn't do much the last time (but that could have been a small bounce from the blue) or don't shoot. Whichever feels right to you, we can deal with the higher next ps tonight.

Have a great day.

Robin
 
great problem to have 'my kitty barely has numbers high enuf for insulin this morning!"
i guess the .1u was alright...hope you can work your way up to 1.5 or even .2 u next time as it would be exciting albeit almost too exciting to see some green ;-)
Lori
and Lord Thomas
 
Such great numbers! Sounds like you made a good decision to shoot too. I remember those days - I always felt like I lost ground if I didn't shoot too.
 
Not so great +6....286...guess I should have done .2...just not sure of my decision making though. I wish she would do this at night when I'm gonna be home. Lori, I don't know if I could even figure out where the 1.5 would be! I'm not really sure about the .1...could have been less?
 
I was kidding about the 1.5..... .2
I personally don't think .1 does a darn thing.
 
I'd stick with the .3u maybe even .25u. It looks like that .3u is still a little too high because you're still getting unshootable numbers at your next PS.
 
I've been wondering based on the past couple days if Thumper is thinking about liking .25u. I know, I know...how do you measure that on the syringe? I don't think .3u would be too high to shoot since her PS is over 400, but she seems to be narrowing in on something between .2u and .3u.
 
my 2 cents? 1 u does absolutely nothing for thumper...and those are not unshootable amps. once you see they are on the rise we now have enuf data for you to shoot them altho they are way under 200.
Many folks here routinely and regularly shoot under 200. It is normal once you have data to support it.
Thumper basically got no insulin today....Come out of fear and give your boy a little bit more. .3 as soon as you see a rise. He is not making u turns
 
I'm glad Holly is seeing the same thing I'm seeing.

I think Thumper would like the .25u if you can eyeball it. The .3u seems to always give you a questionable PS.

I think you are zeroing in on something good.
 
Yah I would ditch 0.1, shoot 0.2 on a 180 PS, and 0.25 like others suggested on anything over 200. Remember too that once you are in retesting mode and shooting late, the shot will have less oomph, so a 180 at +13 is not the same as a 180 at +12. Really if you are over 150 and it's +13 I would go ahead and shoot, and then shoot your full dose or close to it due to the late shot.

Anyhow, woohoo for a low PS. Even if it screws everything up, it's a nice problem to have. :mrgreen:
 
mmmm, it's tough b/c she doesn't have a lot of data on lower PSs... Based on the reaction to the 0.1 on a 190 the night of 4/27, that's where I would probably say to try 0.2 now on the 180 and see if that dose better. Or the elusive 0.15 :mrgreen: I guess would be another choice. If it were me I'd probably go with 0.2 since it's a late shot and she hasn't seen any greens anyhow. Were you thinking something different? I think you have been following her more closely than I have ...
 
.2u on anything on the rise above 150...this is barely anything on a rising number...be reasonable. it's not like we've even seen green yet. at this rate we never will. are we scared of green?
 
No Lori, we're not scared of green, we're scared of hypo since .3 looks to be to much on a 300'ish for a kitty who will be home alone all day.

She doesn't have alot of data shooting lower numbers, where do you see that?

Lastly people here do not routinely shoot lower PS's around or under 150, especially a newbie, I may be the only exception. I realize that Lev and Lantus folks shoot low numbers on a daily basis but she's shooting Prozinc and while I'm on this subject please stop bashing our insulin in our own home, we don't do it to you.
 
well Barbara, the way I see it...looking at your spread sheet as a whole we actually have information.
you shot 1 unit unsuccessfully but with no hypo...I believe you shot higher than that .... not successfully but with no hypo.
Now we do see that .1u brings you nothing but up mid cycle.
.2u does a little more than that.
.3u might be better..., well obviously would be better.
your low 150's? always go up...what to speak of the fact that you are feeding the 150, the insulin kicks in in a few hours slowly at first...does my rational ring well,.....rational?
Hypo? I think not.
 
Nope, she's in data gathering mode right now.

Feeding a bg to get to a more shootable # is a technique used in Lantus and Lev because they have a shed that needs to stay filled, that is not the case with Prozinc.
 
robin i did'nt say feeding a ps to make it go up....it's just that she is feeding at that time.
and not all of us do that on lev and lantus...i certainly don't ohmygod_smile i think it's absurd
 
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