This is my last ditch effort before euthanasia

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<3furkids

<3furkids

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I am really hoping someone on this board can help me. I have a 5 year old kitty who was completely healthy up until last February, when I noticed he was urinating on a couple of my throw rugs and losing a little bit of weight. I didn't think much of it other than they've been cooped up over a long hard winter and maybe he was just "acting" out. Until I took them to the vet for their annual checkups. I found out he went from 14lbs to 9.9lbs within a year, had a UTI and his glucose level was in the 200's (can't remember the exact number, but she thought it may be due to the stress of being at the vet) We treated the UTI with antibiotics, then I took him back and had his glucose retested, still high. Put him on ProZinc, 2units/twice a day, which turned out to be WAY to high. This vet also failed to mention changing his diet from dry food to wet, etc etc, didn't warn me about hypos, which this website saved his life with the maple syrup trick by the way, thank you. So, you all get the picture! I called another vet, she told me to completely stop the insulin, change to all wet food and wait 2-4 weeks and we will recheck his glucose levels, She told me 75% of diabetic cats don't need insulin if they just change their diet. Of course, my boy was in the other 25%! His level was 379 when we rechecked. So we put him back on ProZinc, only 1unit twice/day. Here is the problem. nailbite_smile I notice he actually drinks MORE water and craves MORE food when he is ON insulin, then when he doesn't get shots! And he is urinating on anything that is left on the floor (towels, rugs, etc) and has lost more weight. He is so thin. I tried giving him 1.5 unit shots, but those seem to just make him a little sleepy/disoriented, but not too bad. But still eating/drinking too much. He did have other bloodwork done to rule out other diseases, his thyroid checked - negative. So I don't know what is going on. He is a very finicky cat, doesn't like being alone, etc. So I'm wondering if some of this is psychological? Any ideas? I'm going to have to put him down in the next week if I can't get something figured out!
 
Hi and welcome.

I wonder if you're kitty is truly FD. As the first mentioned, many can go off insulin with diet change. It seems when you started insulin again he got worse, could be he didn't need it. Also when you increased the dose the lethargy might have been him being way too low.

The best thing you can do is hometest your kitty. This would tell you if he does actually need insulin. Hometesting is daunting in the beginning, but after just a few days it becomes simple. I've been doing it a long time so you could be thinking I'm just saying that because it is simple for me, but I've helped a lot of people learn and they really do get it quickly.

If you wanted to tell us city/state, not actual address, maybe someone lives close enough who could show you.

The urine issues, that could be from FD. Giving a cat insulin who doesn't need it will cause FD type symptoms because the body has to compensate. The liver produces more glucogen to keep the kitty safe, then the pancreas produces more insulin. There are others who can explain that better than me.

Once a cat has FD symptoms you have urgency and the possibility of sugar in the urine which can then breed bacteria. That can lead to urinary tract infections and pain, which can then lead to inappropriate elimination. See where I'm going.

Again, I would highly suggest hometesting as your first option. I hope we can help you from having to put your little one down. I'm sure he's not doing this out of spite, but to show you that he needs help from you.
 
I would second Jennifer's recommendations. Home testing is the only way an owner can take control of their cat's diabetes, just like humans do. We can help you learn how to do that, as well as what the blood glucose numbers mean.

Next is diet. You didn't exactly say what brand and type of food you're feeding. It is very important to get them on low carbohydrate wet food. That may or may not have been the diet the second vet recommended, but it is the only one which might improve diabetes for a cat. the prescription diets which are supposed to be for FD are not good enough. Even cheap-o Friskies canned food in the right varieties is lower in carb!

Go here http://www.felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm to look up low carb foods you can choose from.
 
Thanks Jennifer! I am in East Lansing, Michigan. As soon as I can figure out how to move around in this site I will post that in my signature. I think you might be correct...I skipped the shot this morning. He is just way too thin and something is wrong here. I have spent so much money already, I was hoping to avoid buying a testing kit, and I have all these people (family, coworkers) telling me the best thing to do is put him down, but he's my buddy! I'm going to stop the shots for a couple of days at least. This is all so overwhelming...its hard enough giving his shots every 12 hours, much less testing him at specific times too. I don't know how you guys do it, but, these are our "kids"....right?!
 
Vicky, sorry. The 1st vet sold me a worthless $30 bag of special diet DRY food for diabetic cats. (since she never mentioned the "no dry food" secret!) He wouldn't touch it. I even tried to mix it in with his own food, and he wouldn't touch that either. Even the stray cats wouldn't eat it...2 wasted bags of food and $ down the drain. So, dry food is completely out for him. He only eats Fancy Feast Classics, sometimes mixed with different Fancy Feast grilled entrees (like beef or chicken/giblets). But he's a little guy, and I noticed that he really doesn't EAT much, he mostly licks the juice/gravy part of it first, and will snack on the "meat" part of it here and there later. Which could also affect his insulin levels I'm sure....
 
<3furkids said:
Thanks Jennifer! I am in East Lansing, Michigan. As soon as I can figure out how to move around in this site I will post that in my signature. I think you might be correct...I skipped the shot this morning. He is just way too thin and something is wrong here. I have spent so much money already, I was hoping to avoid buying a testing kit, and I have all these people (family, coworkers) telling me the best thing to do is put him down, but he's my buddy! I'm going to stop the shots for a couple of days at least. This is all so overwhelming...its hard enough giving his shots every 12 hours, much less testing him at specific times too. I don't know how you guys do it, but, these are our "kids"....right?!
Click to expand...

You can put your location over there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
by editing your profile. Just go to "User Control Panel" and then select the "Profile" Tab.

You can get a free test kit--just pay shipping--from "lori and tom".
You can send her a PM (Private Message).
 
Welcome, 3furkids!
You will soon not feel overwhelmed! Everyone here is great, and offer much more than just your vet ever could.
I received a kit from Lori & Tom. As soon as I got some dollars up, I purchased the relion meter, strips and neosporin + pain for all under 35ish. I also decided to use the relion syringes too. Much cheaper than the vet selling them to me.. My Sugar Bean has been eating the foods on the list and we switch it up some, but only foods from those on the list.
You will soon be hugging your baby and he will be thanking you for such goood care!
Lets get home testing, offering low carb treats, feeding a low carb diet and see what happens to your sugar boy! With all the help here, you will be fine!
BTW: I buy the petco brand treat call tuna flakes....she loves them, and it helps us get ready for our home testing times.
 
I thank all of you for your help, kindness and advice. I have learned so much more reading these message boards then 2 vets. I will try the home testing, however Bugman is a very finicky and sensitive guy, so I'm not sure how well this is going to go over. I feel I'm just buying a little more time. Thank you again!
 
So glad I stumbled across this thread.
I can provide you with a 'special' kit' right now.
60 strips, a meter that is not reli-on but will use reli-on strips, rice sock to warm kitty ear for easier bleed, lancets, blah blah blah....but also I now offer a baggie of the ultra very best low carb treats! both salmon and chicken flavors...what am i saying 'flavors' they are human quaility pure, no additivies salmon and chicken...freeze dried! and the toys are to die for...cutest ever.
hope you'll order and i will send you the video of how we test k?
Lori
Newbie Kits
 
Hi!

I know you are feeling completely overwhelmed with everything but don't fear! Things can and will get better .. I'm not far from E. Lansing, just over an hour away ..

I don't mind coming out and helping you learn how to hometest, but I am not familiar at all with your insulin ..
 
Well, all I can tell you is my experience. I was certain Squeak wouldn't let me test and when people here told me that I needed to, I freaked out. I went with my vet who had been taught to use fructosamines to determine dosage...and it worked for a bit and then Squeak relapsed. So I sucked it up and learned to test and never looked back. Squeak is difficult when it comes to wiping feet, toenail clipping and teeth cleaning but he purred when I tested him. So most of the time, the anxiety is unfounded. It really doesn't hurt them, and if you find a way to do it so you aren't restraining them, it usually goes well. And the vast majority of cats learn that the testing and the shots actually make them feel better. Some cats even remind their humans when it is testing time.
 
Welcome Tamra!

I have an off topic suggestion that might help with your potty problems - extra litter boxes. I have 3 cats, one of which guards the litter box from our youngest cat, and my 2 civvies will harass my diabetic if they see her in the box. Since the civvies are social, the litter box in our basement (away from people) is a haven for my diabetic. The litter box upstairs gives something for Buddy to guard from his nemesis Zoey, so she can follow a person into the basement and use the downstairs litter box in peace (Peeps is only seen in the litter box when we have a problem with her diabetes/cancer).

A new litter box in a new location might also help Bug, if he's had painful experiences with the existing box. I prefer tall sided storage boxes for a kitty bathroom. It helps keep the urine/litter in, doesn't absorb the litter/stink/gunk as much as a conventional box, and they are very much cheaper than designer cat boxes.
 
I know that everything, especially home testing seems completely overwhelming at the moment, but it can and does get easier. In fact diabetes is so managable at home that when my first diabetic cat Muse passed away (not from diabetes) I took what I had learned from this board in regards of caring for Muse and adopted not one but TWO diabetic cats, knowing full well and because they were diabetics. Now when I lost my Muse I still had 10 healthy and happy non-diabetic cats, I certainly didn't need one more let alone two special needs cats, but knowing what I now knew I just couldn't let either of these two be put down simply because they were diabetic. So here they came, I started testing them both at home, from day one, and with the guidance of the folks here Maxwell ( my first adoptee) is now in remission for the last 9 months, and Musette who I just adopted in June is doing very well on a small dose of Lantus, although she may never come off insulin like Maxwell, she is still a cherished new member of my furry family. If I can learn to test two cats who had no reason to trust me, you can certainly learn to do it with a kitty that already knows, loves and trusts you. Not only have both of mine learned to be tested, they look forward to it, and we have developed a loving relationship, where they both sleep with my husband and I every night, curled up tight on our pillows.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Home testing seems hard a first, but after you and your cat get the hang of it is very easy. Bandit fought me quite a bit the first couple weeks, but there are many tricks you can use to get your cat to cooperate that we can share with you.. Now when Bandit hears the meter beep on, he comes running and lies down in front of me to get his test (because he wants a treat). The other day, I even caught him purring through the test! Even when it is hard at first, just think that once you do this, you are saving your cat's life. That's what made me stop being afraid of hurting him, or of him hating me. Those were false fears anyway. After a few weeks the ears become desensitized to the poking and the cat cares more about the treat he's gonna get. Even difficult cats (my boy won't even let me brush him).

Lori is setting you up with a good meter. You can buy the strips at Walmart, and they are pretty inexpensive. And you won't have to ever pay for vet testing again. It is so much less expensive! I started home testing because when Bandit was diagnosed I simply couldn't afford to bring him in for testing at the vet. As it turns out, it was the best decision I ever made. Home testing is the only way to see how insulin is working on your cat, and to adjust the dose to the right amount of insulin. Regulation and remission are very common, but only if the cat can stay normal numbers via diet and insulin for the majority of the day. Since insulin needs change as the cat heals, this can only happen if you're testing frequently to see if the dose needs to be raised, lowered, or held. Too much insulin keeps blood sugar just as high as too little insulin, so you have adjust the dose to keep it between the two.

Do you still have the bags of dry food? If your cat won't eat them you can return them to the vet for a refund--you just tell them the cat wouldn't eat it.

Fancy feast classics are great to feed, but not the grilled fancy feast. Here's a list of the diabetic safe fancy feast flavors: http://felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm. If he likes the moisture of the grilled foods, try mixing a bit of water to the classic fancy feast to moisten the food. It will also help with hydration.
 
i just wanted to say welcome! Please hang in there - you and your boy will work it out!
I don't know if this will help, but I recently bought a comfort Zone feliway plug in. Cedric has developed a phobia of the couch (he feels there is something hiding under there) which may or may not have a connection to the stray cat I have been feeding outside our new house (maybe another reason, since we moved he realized the couch has a back instead of being against the wall). It's supposed to help with incorrect ulumination. I have to say I was speaking to a freind aobut this the other night and it does NOT work on his cat who pees everywhere (I can't remmeber if this cat has CRF, as they have 4 cats in that house). While I don't smell the feliway, Doug did when they used it in their house.

Hopefully you can get the issues cleared up and be a loving family again. cat_pet_icon
 
While you are working to get the hang of home testing, you may want to pick up some urine test strips (ex ketodiastix) from a local pharmacy and try to get some urine tests for glucose and/or ketones. The values will be a couple of hours delayed from what was happening in the cat, but it is better than no information at all. Evidence of ketones can be an emergency situation as it may indicate the cat is in ketoacidosis, a complication of uncontrolled diabetes.

Some of the tricks used to test urine include using aquarium gravel (its non-absorbent) or laying plastic wrap over the litter so the urine puddles. If you're home enough to monitor the cat, a long handled ladle may be used to collect urine while the cat is in the litterbox using it. Once you've collected some fresh urine, you dip the strip into it and immediately compare it to the colors on the side of the container for them.

An additional tactic for managing the inappropriate pee everywhere is the temporary use of a large (30" long or more) crate, with litterbox, a place to sleep, and a place to put food. This is intended to be temporary, until the diabetes is well controlled, and any other medical problems are treated. After medical problems are managed, behavior training may be started. Trying to do training while there is uncontrolled diabetes or other medical problems is most likely to be unsuccessfull.
 
I was in your shoes a few months ago. I really believe if I had not found this MB that we would have lost Bobbie. The vet put her on insulin and dry RX food. She hated the food and it was high in carbs too. We were giving her her shots twice a day and home testing was not even suggested. She never acted like she felt better while on this regigimin(sp). Never got her appetite back and continued to act like she didn't feel well, hide all the time and drink a lot. (no urination problems however).

After coming here, we bought the inexpensive Relion meter at Wal~Mart. Watched the home -testing Buddy (RIP) video on you tube , and began testing at home. We put her on Friskies Classic Pate the day we began home testing. Ironically we took her off Friskies Pate to put her on the vet RX food! Before DX she was free fed Friskies dry and had wet in the evenings. We switched to wet only, and by the second day of that and testing 4 times a day, she was OTJ and has been ever since. I now test once a week and last week she was 56!

Testing was intimidating at first. Started out with DH holding her in a Bobbie Burrito but now It's just Bobbie and me. We have come a long way! I feel like if you switch to all wet and begin home testing you will see a big change in your cat. By the end of the first week we had our old Bobbie back. And I am so happy to say she is still back with us . I believe she would have never gotten better and we would have lost her if it had not been for all the info I got from this board.

I don't fault my vet for what happened. It was (I think) lack of knowledge of feline diabetis for him. He is very supportive of what we are doing and encouraged us to continue with it.
 
After you are sure that the diabetes is controlled, and no other medical problems are contributing to the urination everywhere, take a look at the list I posted here for some ideas on retraining.
 
Sarah and Velcro lives in Lansing area, and in fact, she is helping with a rescue relay on Saturday (we just exchanged emails earlier today)

Also -- return the dry food to the vet or where-ever purchased from -- they should refund your money.

I live in Michigan too, but over near Detroit. (north of Novi)
 
Have you considered changing the kind of insulin you use? I noticed a big difference after I changed to Lantus.

Patricia (GAs Fluffy, Mr QT, Murphy, Jonathan, Flannel, Speedy, Angel, Rusty, Bobby, Ash, Moseley, Suzy, Zak, Kobe and Cory) Corky, Oreo & Rufus
 
mew mew!! I live in Haslett, about 1 mile north of Meridian mall. I would be happy to help you with home testing. Devon who posted above can vouch for me since we have met up a few times. I will message you my email.

I hope this forum will help you and your kitty! :D
 
Thanks to all of you for the great advice! I love you guys!!!

Lori: I have ordered a "newbie kit"!
Sarah: I will be definately be contacting you if I run into problems! xoxo
 
Sarah is awesome at teaching newbies! She drove over an hour to come and help us with mocha when she was first diagnosed .. If your schedules don't work out, please let us know .. we don't mind passing along what we have been taught here either!
 
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