Thinking about adding R. Looking for input from others

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StephG

StephG

Member Since 2016
Chuck's numbers have been great compared to prozinc numbers. We are still dealing with the big food spike in the beginning of the cycles. Not every single cycle but most of them. I've read on here that R can be useful to keep the numbers from going up like that.
I'm only thinking about it at this point. I wouldn't want to start until the day after I return from vacation which would be August 27th.
I know it's a powerful insulin and can be a vicious cycle if used to chase numbers. I'm only looking for enough to keep his food spike less than 50 or none at all. I think the 15 units would work much better at keeping him flat or get dark greens more often.
September 7th will be one year on insulin. I'm really convinced he has IAA more than he has acro. There's no waxing and waning of insulin needs like that of an acro cat. I know this doesn't rule out acro but in my mind, his need for more insulin-doing better on the higher dose for a bit-then needing more again- makes me think IAA is more likely.
So if anyone could let me know what they think about possibly adding R insulin, I would appreciate it!
 
I wonder who has tried R in the past? Maybe if anyone knows, they could tag them to see this post?
 
Hi Steph. Here is a LINK to an interesting discussion about IAA and the use of "R" that you may find interesting (if you haven't already seen it!;)). My little girl was positive for IAA and negative for Acro but I never used "R" as she started getting into some better numbers and showing some leveling off/reduction of her dose just after this discussion took place.

You are seeing far more blue and green numbers than I ever saw for about a year when Menace's antibodies finally started to break and while her dose reduced, it wasn't as sudden as I had anticipated it might be. That though may have been influenced by my girl's refusal to give up her kibble addiction! Prior to that, I'd see a tiny bit of movement in her numbers on the first or second day of a dose increase and then she'd be right back to previous numbers as if the dose has just pooped out completely. Your dose increases seem to be lasting a bit longer but ECID.

You're doing great with a challenging situation and I hope you are correct about the IAA and eventually see much better numbers at considerably lower doses. :)
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Hi Steph. Here is a LINK to an interesting discussion about IAA and the use of "R" that you may find interesting (if you haven't already seen it!;)). My little girl was positive for IAA and negative for Acro but I never used "R" as she started getting into some better numbers and showing some leveling off/reduction of her dose just after this discussion took place.

You are seeing far more blue and green numbers than I ever saw for about a year when Menace's antibodies finally started to break and while her dose reduced, it wasn't as sudden as I had anticipated it might be. That though may have been influenced by my girl's refusal to give up her kibble addiction! Prior to that, I'd see a tiny bit of movement in her numbers on the first or second day of a dose increase and then she'd be right back to previous numbers as if the dose has just pooped out completely. Your dose increases seem to be lasting a bit longer but ECID.

You're doing great with a challenging situation and I hope you are correct about the IAA and eventually see much better numbers at considerably lower doses. :)
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Thanks for your input, Linda. I'd mentioned your experience to Steph elsewhere.
 
I'm not going to speculate whether Chuck has Arco/ IAA, both or neither. Your boy certainly dose like to bounce though and even in some non-high dose kitties I've seen quite a bit of kitties who loved the rainbow in any given cycle. He sure is looking better on Lantus and it's only been 3 months since you started with it. Looking at your SS I'm wondering how you function on such little sleep and certainly are doing a great job taking care of Chuck.

I know it's real tempting to "give a little more insulin" when they bounce high (PM shot of 7/15 and the little fat last night) but it really will only give wacky numbers since the depot really does like consistency. R can be a helpful tool and glad you are aware of how powerful it is.

My Doodles turned IAA (78%) after almost a year of being diabetic (March 2016 was IAA along with HCM & CHF). I used R from March & April 2016 because he got stuck in Pink, Red and Black numbers. At the end of April I switched him to Levemir and he had a marked response to the insulin change. He'd been on Lantus for almost a year and once we got over 5u it was clearly stinging him which was the primary reason we switched. Just sharing as ECID and I'm not recommending a switch to Levemir at this time for Chuck.

Be sure to have an experienced R member such as @Sandy and Black Kitty or @Wendy&Neko help should you decide to go the R route especially in the beginning.
 
Hi Steph, yes I got the R for Phoebe after she hit 20 units and had been diagnosed with diabetes for about 5 months. Your correct it is an extremely strong insulin. I would suggest @Wendy&Neko or @Sandy and Black Kitty guide you. They held my hand for the first couple of doses because it seemed that was enough to help Phoebes numbers. Along with finally hitting the right dose of insulin. You have to be willing to watch your kitty very close, like every hour for first couple days to see what the R does and how your kitty will react. Phoebe hasn't been medically tested for IAA or the acro test. But we came to the conclusion of treating her as a IAA kitty with her huge amount of insulin (20 units)it was taking to get her numbers somewhat regulated. We went up to 23.5 units and now are at 20 units. Only gave R 3 times. Please please talk with Wendy before you decide to go that round. Have tried fast tracking? You would talk to Wendy about that as well. Good luck with your furbaby.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
Looking at your SS I'm wondering how you function on such little sleep and certainly are doing a great job taking care of Chuck.

I know it's real tempting to "give a little more insulin" when they bounce high (PM shot of 7/15 and the little fat last night) but it really will only give wacky numbers since the depot really does like consistency.
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The increase on 7/15 was going to be just an increase after 10 cycles on 15. Well we had what I thought was a partial fur shot but I think it may have been just a bounce cycle instead.
The fat 15 was suppose to be repeated for 6 cycles but DH didn't "hear" those instructions! Selective hearing:rolleyes:
That's how we get so many tests. I usually do daytime hours and DH does overnights. He works a late 2nd shift and can test from +10 is til AM +4.
Phoebes said:
Have tried fast tracking?
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I don't think I have read about this.
Every time we get to a dose that I think is going to be enough, like 15 units, it tends to work for a bit then he settles in and we see higher numbers.
I'm thinking he would do great on the 15.5 units just from seeing the numbers on PM 7/15 and AM 7/16. Probably would have been a green cycle if we gave the 15.5 again that morning.
 
First, it is possible for kitties to have both IAA and acromegaly. Neko did have both. Her dose never went up and down, just up, until her SRT, but ECID also is true for high dose kitties. Lu-Ann's Grayson, also acro and IAA, continued to go up for several months after SRT. Without testing, it's hard to say what is up with Chuck. It is really nice to know what you are dealing with before using R, as the behaviour of the antibodies can add wrinkles to how a kitty responds to R. Jack is a good example of a current kitty using R, and having both acro and IAA. Wes has to be extra careful when using R, or more important, knowing when not to give R. We don't have any just IAA kitties active and using R now, but you can look at Karen's Doodles SS or @Sandy and Black Kitty BK's SS as examples. Many just acro kitty caregivers also used R SS part of their regular routine. Any chance you might get testing done dome day?

As for using R, wait until you are back and can monitor closely. Then post for help and we can try to line up someone with experience who can help "sit" with you the first few cycles of R.
 
I think she meant the IAA/acro blood tests.
DH is very against the tests. Only because there's nothing we can do about acro if he has it. I know they can and usually do have both conditions.
At this point we are just thinking about it. I'll be home for at least 8 weeks after vacation. My friend is on maternity leave so I won't be watching her kids until she goes back to work.
I'll check out those SS you shared. I'm not really in a hurry to start it. Mainly looking for opinions on if it would be helpful.
 
Yup, I meant the blood tests. You could always test for just IAA, which would help with using R, though not much more expensive to get both. The reason it is good to know what you are dealing with is the potential side effects. For example, Neko almost had a tooth pulled that was perfectly fine. She had some redness on her gums. Turned out the dental vet, knowing she was acro, saw gum thickening and just shaved the tooth so it no longer rubbed. Cheaper for me, better for Neko. Acros often have heart conditions from growing hearts. Those conditions can exist without obvious signs until it may be too late. Knowing a cat has acromegaly might lead you to get the heart checked and meds given that can extend their life and QOL. Acros can have pain from growing tissue and bones. Cats are extremely good at hiding pain. Pain meds can really help. Adding buprenorphine to Neko's daily regime was a quality of life game changer. Knowledge is power. I was better able to care for Neko, knowing what conditions she had.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Knowledge is power. I was better able to care for Neko, knowing what conditions she had.
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I agree with Wendy. It was far less scary for me to give Menace the large doses she needed knowing there was a reason for it. It also gave me the heads up of what to expect when her auto antibodies finally started letting up and it helped me to keep her safe.
 
Not sure if Marvin will end up be unique for treatment of Acromegaly, but if the experimental drug keeps working like it is for him maybe an option for your fur baby. I would assume that the cost of the drug would be off set somewhat if not all by the reduction of insulin if it worked for yours.
 
I googled it and found some info on drugs.com. Seems like it works for people.
The only pricing I could find is $202 for 8 .5 mg pills. :eek:
 
StephG said:
I googled it and found some info on drugs.com. Seems like it works for people.
The only pricing I could find is $202 for 8 .5 mg pills. :eek:
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You should be able to find one month supplier for less, and get it made in liquid format. The pill you would have to give 1/8 if the pill is a standard size 8 pill would be 64 days supply. However you would want it in liquid format not the pill. You would need to look for a compound pharmacy and as them for a quote for the liquid format, as would be too hard or impossible to cut the pill in 8. I know that @Bronx's dad also was able to find it at a compound pharmacy for around 100 for one month supply also. If I recall the dose is based on cat weight. How much is chuck?
 
He's 12.1 pounds right now. I have a compounding pharmacy in my town. So that's a big help.
I'll tell DH about this and he might be more willing to get the tests done.
 
StephG said:
He's 12.1 pounds right now. I have a compounding pharmacy in my town. So that's a big help.
I'll tell DH about this and he might be more willing to get the tests done.
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How much are you spending on insulin a month? curious :) Keep in mind, it's experimental at this time no guarantee that it will work. It is for Marvin, but he was taking lower dos of insulin. If it does work on Chuck that would be great.
 
Hi there :cool: sorry I'm late to the party....

FWIW with all the blue and green he has seen and continues to see I'm not feeling serious IAA although there may be some in play.
I too recommend having Chuck tested for both IAA and Acro, that way time isn't wasted guessing and barking up the wrong tree.
Are you feeding as stated in your signature line?
Is the arthritis causing him pain?

In any case with a high dose kitty R is a good thing to have in your bag of tricks. When you are ready to try it and see what it may or may not do, those of us with experience will help you out. No worries.
 
Marvin's Mom - Nat said:
How much are you spending on insulin a month? curious :) Keep in mind, it's experimental at this time no guarantee that it will work. It is for Marvin, but he was taking lower dos of insulin. If it does work on Chuck that would be great.
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Only about $50 a month on insulin.
I mentioned it to DH. He agreed that we would have to talk to the vet to see if she'd be willing to give it a go with a positive test result.
 
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