The Right food for Feline Diabetes?

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Garda

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by Garda » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:14 am

Hello -- I am new here, but not new to Feline diabetes. Had 2 cats about 8 years ago that died from it. Now I have a Maine Coon Cross cat with it. He's 17.5 years old, has lost almost 5 pounds, down to 13. Having found the insulin treatments years ago to be negative experiences all around, not to mention expensive, I'm very reluctant to start this again. I want him to be comfortable and have good quality of life. His test at the vet last week came in at 710, up 200 points since the one 6 weeks ago.

Can feline diabetes ever be controlled without insulin? He drinks a lot of water, but it's not excessive as I've seen before. He's also not ravenously hungry and eating everything in sight as I've seen before. No problems with his back legs. Eyesight fine.

Re food: I note that so many of you here say to get your cat off dry food and go for low carb canned food. This is exactly the opposite of what my vet is saying! She says to wean them (I have 2 cats) off all canned food -- even though they've only had a quarter of a can each of Fancy Feast in several varieties -- and feed only dry Science Diet M/D Feline food which is formulated for diabetic cats! They eat it, but they want that Fancy Feast! I've also purchased Tiki Cat grain-free canned food. They'll eat some of that.

I have printed out your Fancy Feast low carb list and will use that as a reference. But what are your results? Is this truly all right to feed a diabetic cat?

Incidentally, my cat's points went up over 200 once he started the dry (expensive) M/D cat food. He's now at 710. I can't help but think that's a problem for him, no matter what the vet says.

I'm going out of town for a few days, unfortunately. The vet said when I get back next Tuesday that we need to discuss insulin treatment. She says that's best for him. My husband is against it because of the cost as well as the proper regulation which was a nightmare when we did it years ago. I'm so torn and it's just making me sick. The cat is wonderful!

Any insights you can give me will be so much appreciated. Thank you very much.
 
Hi and welcome.

"Incidentally, my cat's points went up over 200 once he started the dry (expensive) M/D cat food. He's now at 710. I can't help but think that's a problem for him, no matter what the vet says."

I think you've got your answer about the prescription food :)

When you last had an FD, what was the treatment like. When I was young, my cat Lady's FD treatment was completely different that how I manage things today. I didn't know about hometesting, she went to the vet once per month for a blood test and about once every two months to the ER vet for hypos. It was a terrible experience for me, but sadly worse for Lady.

In '05 when I learned about Tucker's FD I knew things would need to be different. We started hometesting his blood sugar, after finding this board I learned about food and Tucker did go into remission for a bit. He's got other health issues and will probably never go off insulin, but he's managed easily and without much fuss.

Other FDs I have adopted recently have gone off insulin based on food change. Bean was a steroid induced FD, with steroids removed, she's off insulin.

You've got some high numbers and I'd want to bring those down to avoid other complications. If this were my cat, I'd get a glucometer and hometest my cat. I'd dump the dry food and continue with canned only, Fancy Feast is what my cats eat. I'd read the FAQs, and ask lots of questions.

What was your first FD experience like? Maybe we can help you avoid some of the things that made it so hard the first time around.
 
Please don't base your decision on what happened 8 years ago...treatment of FD has come a LONG way! If I'd chosen not to treat Squeak in 2002 I wouldn't still have him fat and sassy, 8 years later.

INsulins now are much better for cats, testing blood glucose levels at home is becoming much more common, and more vets understand the balance of food and insulin.

Your vet sounds backwards, unfortunately, if she thinks that DM dry is better than a low carb canned food. It is counter-intuitive, but unfortunately, many vets don't get nutrition...

Please, read the faq to learn more.

Was the 710 a fructosamine result or a blood glucose test?

If your cat has lost weight, he is starving. DIet change AND insulin is the best chance your cat has at a quality of life, AND the quicker you start insulin and hometesting, the better the chance that insulin may be needed temporarily (no guarantees though).

Please, you and your hubby can do this, and we can help you.

Jen
 
Thank you!! The first test was blood glucose. The one the day before yesterday was fructosamine. If I didn't have to go out to NYC in about 2 hours, I would be here working on the food issues. I'm taking it all in, what you're saying. I knw *I* can work on this, and give the shots if I have to. My husband is against for the cost and Hooter's age. I grow grass indoors for them (since we moved to Florida 4 years ago, they can't go out and roam as they used to). Now I have to go away until Monday. My husband can feed them and I'm leaving full directions. I can't tell you how MUCH I appreciate all this support!
Garda
 
Hubbbies always worry about causing the cat harm...they don't get that you treat your cat just as if you'd treat human children!

If you are leaving your cat in your hubby's care, please leave strict instructions to get your cat to the vet immediately should he start acting more lethargic, panting, etc. as ketones are a very real and serious possible side effect of untreated diabetes. Once you are back, PLEASE start on insulin (lantus/glargine or pzi) immediately, at a low dose of 1 unit twice a day and learn to home test. It WILL be overwhelming at first but we will help you and you and your hubby will be amazed how routine it becomes

Jen
 
Thank you, Jen, too! I will have my laptop with me and will check in here when I can. I'll be back in Florida Monday afternoon. I will read all the messages and keep in touch with my husband. I so wish I didn't have to go, but it's my daughter's milestone birthday and I have no choice (and want to be with her, of course). THANK YOU ALL!! Garda
 
Hi and welcome to FDMB again.
I just wanted to let you know that once my Max was diagnosed with
diabetes all dry food was removed from the house and he has been
eating only Fancy Feast classic for the past 10 months.
As are my other 3 cats.
Max spent only 5 months on insulin and his last shot was in April.

Since you are not giving insulin now, have you had checked for Ketones.
If you have not I would recommend getting ketostix from the pharmacy.
 
Randi & Max,

Have not had him checked for ketones as far as I know from the vet. Thanks, I will check that. And what would I find and what would be answer if I check him myself? I am completely amazed about this discussion of canned food versus the M/D prescription dry food. Just amazed! Thank you!!

Garda & Hooter
 
Garda said:
Randi & Max,

Have not had him checked for ketones as far as I know from the vet. Thanks, I will check that. And what would I find and what would be answer if I check him myself? I am completely amazed about this discussion of canned food versus the M/D prescription dry food. Just amazed! Thank you!!

Garda & Hooter

There is a guide on the bottle that would tell you if they are negative, trace or present.
If they are negative then you are fine. If trace then you would need to get some fluids in him and if present straight to the vet.
Ketones can turn serious very quickly so you want to be proactive.
Post here okay with results. okay?

Please check to be safe.
 
Either low carb canned food or RAW pet food is fine for a diabetic cat :smile: Canned food is the easiest to feed/afford for most people.

Fancy Feast has many low carb varieties. There are many other brands of food you can feed: Wellness, Innova EVO, Merrick, Friskies, etc. Just be sure to check the food chart for how many carbs are in the food: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html A brand may have multiple varieties but only one or two may be low carb.
 
Garda-

Stinky was diagnosed about six weeks ago. He tested 600+ at diagnosis, and quite overweight for most of his life. Long story short, my vet had him on Hill's prescription R/D (ironically, for weight loss) which I subsequently found out was 37% carbs. Long story short, I consulted with Dr. Pierson and was told to immediately switch to low-carb canned food. I chose Merrick "Cowboy Cookout" and "Grammies Pot Pie." They are both listed as <5% carbs. Stinky was on insulin for 11 days only. He's been off insulin since August 27th and is doing great. I credit it to the program touted on this board (and of course the brilliant Dr. P) and SIMPLE DIET CHANGE. I would definitely suggest finding the lowest possible carb wet food for your kittie.
 
Good Morning Garda - I hope you had a great trip. I have completely switched all my kitties, the healthy ones and the diabetic to wet food. There is no longer even a crumble of anything dry in the house. The calorie count on dry food was shocking to me. Another shocker after finding this site, was learning how many vets recommend food that they just happen to sell themselves. Oh ho, I see how that works. I'm not making comments about your vet, who I don't know at all. But I have become jaded about vets that recommend only THEIR food, which is so clearly inferior to other cans that can be bought over the counter. If you search the boards, you can find that many feed their kitties canned food quite economically. Here is a link to helpful hints regarding costs of keeping diabetic kitties. http://binkyspage.tripod.com/frugal.html. Read and learn about ketones because they are as deadly as hypoglycemic episodes. Good luck with Hooter. Come back often, read and read, ask questions and ask more questions. This is a wonderful place of very supportive cat parents who love their kitties as much as you do Hooter and we all want Hooter to live a healthy, happy life.

Have good Monday.

edit to add: I learned from Dr. Lisa's site how to calculate Shadow's daily calorie requirements based on her weight and when I applied that number to the specialty dry food that Shadow was eating for urinary crystals, it calculated out to be 1/8 cup. daily. 1/8 cup is a coffee scoop. and the dry food package recommended feeding 1 cup daily. that's a LOT of calories. She would be one unhappy kitty if she was allowed one coffee scoop of food daily. That was another reason to go low carb wet food.
 
Hello to all you wonderful people here! I have returned to Florida from NYC after having a terrific long weekend with my daughter for her birthday. I can tell you that I had a better more relaxed time than I expected because of all of you who posted here. Thanks to your advice and my subsequent research I immediately took Hooter off that M/D dry food from the vet. I was convinced he was sicker while he was on it, and after I connected with all you I knew I was right. I sorted through our Fancy Feast cans and the Tiki Cat canned food I purchased, and left only the correct ones for my husband to feed to both Hooter and (gray American Shorthair) Minnie Mow.

I checked in every day and my husband said they were both great, Hooter seemed livelier! I knew we turned a corner. I know we're not home free and I will test him for ketones, and perhaps take him back to the vet for another test. But I will tell her I am absolutely not ever feeding him dry food again, especially that M/D. (Seeing if I can get my money back for that will be another problem; I'm now not interested in even giving it to a cat shelter. No need to have troubled cats receive even more trouble through refined food.)

I will also have to learn whether he will actually need insulin, and if he does if it can be a kind of temporary "maintenance" or something like that. I think many of you here have some experience with that. But thanks to you here and I've already learned so much, and I think Hooter is already better for it. Thank you very much!! Garda
 
Feeding Fancy Feast was completely against all my knowledge regarding feline nutrition HOWEVER I was at my wits end. After reading and reading on this website I made a decision to trust whole heartly the people on FDMB--since without doing that I basically felt I would have to say goodbye to my cat -Khan. I was frustrated and VERY discouraged. RESULTS: My cat is eating- after losing 5.5#!. He eats on a regular schedule and this allows me to give him insulin and continue to work on regulating him. His urine output has decreased. His stool is no longer diarrhea or soft.. it is solid! He is grooming himself. I am amazed-truely since I just really DID NOT believe in feeding just Fancy Feast. Also my cat has had food allergies for years-unknown what specifically it is (and I have tried several very expensive prescription foods)- my cat's hair is growing back on his belly and neck where he would scratch and scratch. He is eating Fancy Feast Savory Salmon Feast. I do not have any experience except my own to offer.. I just know I am amazed and forever thankful for the people on here. It was difficult to change my ways in feeding. I bucked the same thing with my cat with cancer.. but switched to low carb wet and she has gained a healthy amount of weight.
 
Right amount of food for Feline Diabetes?

confused_cat I'm back again. I have now eliminated dry food from Hooter and Minnie. I've checked the Fancy Feast can and directions say to feed one can per 3 pounds of body weight per day. Do you all feed that much?? I think I'm still stuck in the realm of giving dry food with only a quarter can per day of FF as a supplement. Now I have to re-adjust. Hooter was 18 lbs. now down to 13 lbs. for example. How much FF do all of you give to your cats?

I feel as if I'm just learning how to feed cats, and I've lived with them for decades! Thanks so much for your ongoing help. It's all a learning process, and a turning off of the tapes in my head containing information from vets and TV ads.

Garda --dictated by Hooter & Minnie Mow!
 
I completely ignore those feeding requirements! My guys get about 1.5 cans of FF per day, and none of them are exactly skinny!

By the way, we tend to use the term "Fancy Feast" a lot, but we're not really pushing that particular brand - it's just one that most people can get, no matter where they live. Friskies, Wellness, Felidae, store brand canned (like WalMart's Special Kitty) are all fine as long as they are low carb, no grains, and no gravy. Oh- and not too much fish (heavy metals are a concern). So if he likes Friskies more, fine. The point is NO DRY FOOD.

The vet who developed the Purina canned DM was so horrified by the ingredients in dry DM (Purina's version of Hill's M/D) that she refused to let her name be associated with it. And she even tells her own clients to feed FF instead of the canned DM that she developed!

We can offer MANY papers by vets about canned versus dry and you can pass that along to your vet, if you like. Most vets are not taught nutrition in their training, so they repeat what they learn from the pet food salesmen. Obviously pet food companies have a vested interest in selling their product.

Aside from the horrid ingredients in dry M/D (look at the bag!), we have one more huge concern with feeding our cats dry food (and this refers to all cats, not just the diabetics), which may be the most important reason of all to switch to canned or raw food: a cat's most vulnerable organ is their kidneys - kidney failure is the leading cause of death (by disease) in cats. Moisture intake is VITAL for good kidney health. Dry food is... well... dry. And cats have very low thirst drives, so never get enough water by drinking. The moisture has to be in their food. A cat at a water bowl is already dehydrated.

Oh, and before the vet says they need dry food for their teeth, that's also a myth. That would be like telling people to have a couple of crackers to clean their teeth after a meal. Instead, we tell them to have an apple - the moist, fibrous structure helps clean the teeth. For a cat, gnawing on a piece of raw meat (like a chunk of stewing beef) is far better for cleaning their teeth.

And, as has been said, treating the diabetes with insulin now is not the same as it was for you guys first time around. Thank you for letting us help you!
 
Karen wrote: "We can offer MANY papers by vets about canned versus dry and you can pass that along to your vet, if you like."

I would like that very much. I want to read them for my own education as well as passing them on to my vet.
Thank you!! confused_cat

Garda
 
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