Thank you, Questions, Opinions Please

[Angela & Cleo]

THANK YOU FDMB all the Moderators and Advice Givers for all that you do and continue to do! ​

This may be long so apologies in advance.
After what feels like an eternity but in reality is only 2 months, I am (finally) successful at BG Testing my "Fractious" Cat. I never thought I could do it because of her temperament but last night I set my alarm for 12:30AM (PM+6) to test and give a snack and with my eyes barely in focus got enough blood AND made it to the AT2 meter before it timed out. If I was a , I would be walking around with my tail up and chest out (hehe). [insert anti-jinx here]
The notion that Cleo might always be an insulin dependent diabetic is fine by me. I just want her to be healthy and happy. And I just want to do what is best for her. I acknowledge that the data in the SS is sparse but now here come the Qs:
1] Prozinc - SLGS vs. MPM - Since confidence is up with BG testing, how many, and when should I test, ie +??, in order to follow MPM? The AM+ tests will be difficult since I am not home from +2 through +11 most weekdays.

2] Food advice - After reading and reading Dr. Lisa's food chart, its seems that carb (and phosorphus) content were less in the wet food she was eating before dx. We fed a variety of Soulistic flavors which we now know are a mix of LC, MC and HC (we were also feeding her dry food before dx but not since). Per the vet, and since dx, we feed Purina DM savory selects (wet only). I just have a sinking suspicion that the DM savory is NOT helping and she would be better on her wet food (Soulistic) b/4 dx. Also, I feel awful thinking she's eating the same thing every day all day long! My hesitation is that EVERY TIME she has food other than the DM savory, she has diarrhea. Any guidance or thoughts? Also she is starving most of the time so she now eats 1 tsp DM w/ 1 tsp water every 3-4 hours which seems to help the "I'm gonna rip mommy's eyes out" attitude.

3] Prozinc v Lantus - perhaps we should switch back to Lantus or should we just give Prozinc some more time? (for background info see https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...nc-and-numbers-are-all-over-the-place.259883/) (fyi - the emergency vet at the clinic switched her from lantus to prozinc. Cleo's Primary Vet (PV) was not happy but didn't want to go against his colleague's opinion.) I still have an almost full vial of Lantus in the fridge and a box of unopened u-100 syringes w/ 1/2 unit markings.

Again - Sorry this is so long.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Tagging Melissa for you
@FrostD

 

[FrostD]

I assume you have a whole vial of ProZinc left?

I saw your notes - dose way waaaayy too low for the vet to say she was insulin resistant, ugh. Annoying. Well, what's done is done.

It's really up to you. ProZinc is still a good insulin, though it came cause big swings (like you're seeing) and take much longer to settle down. If you want to use up your ProZinc then go back to Lantus, no harm. Want to go back to Lantus, also no harm.

The savory selects is 10% carbs, we consider that medium carb food. Yes, I would switch to something around 5%. When she eats the other stuff, does she still get diarrhea from a small amount of it? Many times they need a slow transition to avoid upset. If you want to transition let us know, do NOT start a food transition yet. It can drop the BG dangerously low, so we must carefully consider dose.

With MPM you need the two preshots, and one additional test per cycle. If the AM +2 is all you can get, then you can make up for it at night - but you'll want to vary the times (a +4 one night, a +6 another, a +5, etc). Glad.to see you have a curve planned, let's see how that goes and go from there. In the meantime, get whatever spot checks you can , especially around +4/+5

 

[Angela & Cleo]

Tagging Melissa for you
@FrostD

Thank you for tagging Melissa and a HUGE THANK YOU for "the sweet spot" pics for hometesting. I actually printed it out and taped it to the wall as a reference point training Cleo and Myself to be able to BG test. (sometimes I would talk to Cleo softly and say "Diane Tyler's Mom says "aim for the sweet spot" and "your ears will learn to bleed" in time). Without that I would never have been able to get over my fear of pricking her ears. I can't thank you enough.

 

[Angela & Cleo]

I assume you have a whole vial of ProZinc left?

Yes!

It's really up to you. ProZinc is still a good insulin, though it came cause big swings (like you're seeing) and take much longer to settle down.

Ahh, I didn't know that about Prozinc. I will stick with Prozinc for at least another month or two to gather more data points then will you help me re-evaluate?

Glad.to see you have a curve planned, let's see how that goes and go from there. In the meantime, get whatever spot checks you can , especially around +4/+5

I scheduled my curve day for tomorrow (Saturday) because I'll be home doing the dreadful household chores . May I ask that you take a look at the curve data on Sunday so I can solicit some advice for food transition? In the meantime, I'll do some homework on the foods.

LOVE THIS FORUM!

ETA - in thinking about the food transition start date - maybe it would be better to start on Tuesday 3/22/2022. Vet appt on 3/21/22 is for the Libre and Hubby (who will NOT even attempt to do BG testing) works from home so will scan her through out the day on Tuesday.

 

[FrostD]

Absolutely yes to all questions, just tag me whenever you need me to look at something. Many cats do just fine on ProZinc once regulated, but it can take awhile to get there.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Thank you for tagging Melissa and a HUGE THANK YOU for "the sweet spot" pics for hometesting. I actually printed it out and taped it to the wall as a reference point training Cleo and Myself to be able to BG test. (sometimes I would talk to Cleo softly and say "Diane Tyler's Mom says "aim for the sweet spot" and "your ears will learn to bleed" in time). Without that I would never have been able to get over my fear of pricking her ears. I can't thank you enough.

You are very welcome, you will become a pro at no time That's too funny what you say to Cleo

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/
Here is the food chart ,but remember when you switch to carbs 5% and under you need to do it slowly and test more often because the BG can drop by 100 points
Just remember what Melissa said
Many times they need a slow transition to avoid upset. If you want to transition let us know, do NOT start a food transition yet. It can drop the BG dangerously low, so we must carefully consider dose.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

she would be better on her wet food (Soulistic) b/4 dx

How many carbs is this , does this give Cleo diarrhea?

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

LOVE THIS FORUM!

Amen.

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- for me, finding this place was like a life preserver thrown to a drowning person. Rescued!!

Hubby (who will NOT even attempt to do BG testing)

I also work from home. Tell your hubby he's a wuss, suck it up cupcake! No but seriously I get it, I remember saying the same thing. No way no how can't do it! And definitely not without my wife holding him!!

Then one day during my work from home day I was super worried about his BG so with lots of encouragement, tips, tricks and help from the people here on the FDMB I gave it a go all by myself. And I did it! And now I'm the pro -- wifey is the one who struggles a bit. I've done it hundreds of times by myself. Here is a video of me and Hendrick actually:

 

[Angela & Cleo]

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/
Here is the food chart ,but remember when you switch to carbs 5% and under you need to do it slowly and test more often because the BG can drop by 100 points
Just remember what Melissa said
Many times they need a slow transition to avoid upset. If you want to transition let us know, do NOT start a food transition yet. It can drop the BG dangerously low, so we must carefully consider dose.

I have had this food chart up on my screen all week. Today I actually clicked on the google sheets link and am in the process of creating a narrowed list of LC, MC and HC, removed the pouches cause she won't eat those and removed the kitten formulas and stuck with foods with the flavors I know Cleo likes. I also removed any higher phosphorus foods leaving only <399mg per 100cal. Cleo doesn't have kidney issues that we know of but she is 10yrs old now so thinking its a good idea to keep any eye out. I still need to narrow the list to protein to fat %. Dr. Lisa is amazing and in reading everything she's posted, we will start feed Cleo a higher protein % (>51%) and fat % in the 20-40% range like she's says. I was shocked when I looked at her analysis of the DM Savory numbers. FYI they are 49% Protein, 40% Fat and 10% carb. I wasn't so angry about the 10% carb but I was LIVID when I looked up the ingredients for DM Savory and saw the first 6 ingredients: "Water, chicken, liver, wheat gluten, meat by-products, corn starch-modified, soy flour," Wheat Gluten! Corn-Starch and Soy Flour!!! This means that the 49% protein is mostly plant/veggie based not animal protein. Oh and according to an email response about my inquiry describing the meat-by-products, they are "Meat by products include, liver, gizzard, and kidney which come from pork and poultry".

So to sum up, once I get the list of foods down to the % ratios of protein to fat that we're comfortable feeding Cleo, I then plan on researching the types of protein used for each brand and flavor.

How many carbs is this , does this give Cleo diarrhea?

Since her diagnosis, she hasn't been able to tolerate any other food without tummy issues. Slow transition like you said - as if we're starting from scratch.

Here is a video of me and Hendrick actually:

LOL - if i'm being honest - i've actually been lurking and have watched your video NUMEROUS TIMES. PLEASE Don't take offense but Cleo responded better with "Diane Tyler's Mom says aim for the sweet spot", She wasn't too into the Hendrick Pokey.

Thanks again to everyone who has responded to and like this Thread.

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

I was shocked when I looked at her analysis of the DM Savory numbers. FYI they are 49% Protein, 40% Fat and 10% carb. I wasn't so angry about the 10% carb but I was LIVID when I looked up the ingredients for DM Savory and saw the first 6 ingredients: "Water, chicken, liver, wheat gluten, meat by-products, corn starch-modified, soy flour," Wheat Gluten! Corn-Starch and Soy Flour!!! This means that the 49% protein is mostly plant/veggie based not animal protein. Oh and according to an email response about my inquiry describing the meat-by-products, they are "Meat by products include, liver, gizzard, and kidney which come from pork and poultry".

When Hendrick was first diagnosed and our vet said put him on DM Savory Selects and DM Pate, for a while DM Savory Selects was all he ate really well and we struggled to find other things he would eat well but slowly, week by week, we've been working it out of his diet. Now he only gets some as a MC "here have a teaspoon of this to pump your BG up a bit" food. Because yes you are right as many members here have pointed out, that stuff is not made from very high quality ingredients and has a poor fat/protein ratio. And I have read that many cats tire of it over time anyway and just stop eating both the pate and the savory selects.

LOL - if i'm being honest - i've actually been lurking and have watched your video NUMEROUS TIMES. PLEASE Don't take offense but Cleo responded better with "Diane Tyler's Mom says aim for the sweet spot", She wasn't too into the Hendrick Pokey.

OH I am not offended at all I don't mean other people should sing the same song I do -- whatever works for your sugar kitty! The fact that you've watched it a bunch of times is great

Although, these days I like to think I am way more polished than in that early video where I sort of jab him around the eye area with my finger a few times, yikes. We also switched to a different type of lancet and a headgear that is both lenses AND light in one.

 

[Angela & Cleo]

How many carbs is this , does this give Cleo diarrhea?

I just realized I never answered this question. We used to feed her the Soulistic brand pre-diagnosis which vary in carb % based on flavors, recipe etc. FYI here is the link to the website which gives ALL the data - ME, As Fed, DMB, and Minerals - for each of the recipes and flavors. https://www.soulisticpet.com/nutrition-info-all
I did some cross referencing of Soulistic's data to Dr. Lisa's chart and the values are very close.