Tempest is not right. Hair balls?

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TempestsMum

so the last three days Tempest has been a bit off. There's nothing specific I can put my finger on. She wouldn't settle the other day but we had thunder and lighting later that day so I put it down to that. But has been extra clingy.

She was ok yesterday but still not herself - I just put it down to an off day. But she was being picky about her food.

This morning she vomited up clear water that had a smell of cat food but totally watery with no bits. It was quite a lot. She drank a bit of water out of her dish but wouldn't eat and is turning her nose up at her usual food. She will however scoff the treats I give her for her bg tests. I tested her yesterday and an hour ago (didn't get a chance to put them on her ss) totally normal at 6.7

So I think hair balls maybe due to all the extra grooming she's been doing.. I have paste 'lax-a-past' for her but the main ingredient is malt syrup! So I'm afraid to give it.

Any suggestions?

Thanks :)
 
Here's a list of things to check for nausea/vomiting/appetite problems, some clinical signs of which Tempest seems to be exhibiting:

Nausea symptoms and treatments

The clear liquid could be due to excess stomach acid build-up - might be due to not having anything in her stomach. How are Tempest's kidneys? Kidney issues can also cause nausea stomach acid problems.

I notice that you're feeding Sheba Fine Flakes Poultry pouches. Are they in the new black packs? They've changed the formulation (less protein, more fat than the ones in the yellow boxes). One batch in particular triggered things for my Saoirse (box date 16.07.18, pouch dates 19.07.18) and other batches seem to be disagreeing with my civvie, Lúnasa (poops a bit soft and slightly whiffy at times on the new batch and she has brought up a few furballs as well if she goes too long between feeds). I'm looking to move the Noodlebug onto a different food once I get some tests done for her in the near future. (Just can't face going back to the vets at the moment - too soon ...)

Another thing I see is that Tempest has recently gone into remission. I have seen reports here of cats who had GI upsets after their insulin treatment was finished (Saoirse being one of them).

Is Tempest regular in the poop department? Constipation can put a cat off their food and also cause vomiting. More info at www.felineconstipation.org. If it's a constipation issue you need to tackle that otherwise any anti-nausea treatments won't be worth a light. A few doses of metoclopramide can help get the gut moving again. (NB: Metoclopramide is not suitable for long-term use - has nasty, potentially permanent nervous system side-effects.)

Gut motility problems can also apparently cause issues with regurgitation of furballs and diabetics are more prone to such issues.

Does Tempest have any history of pancreatitis problems?

If possible, I'd get the vets ASAP to give Tempest a once-over for peace of mind. If she hasn't eaten anything within 24 hours definitely get her to the vets for anti-nausea treatment (constipation, too, if that's an issue). Cerenia injections work quite fast but from my experience aren't quite as effective as ondansetron for reducing/eliminating nausea but it can take a day or two to build up its therapeutic effect. B12 injections can help with GI issues and stimulate appetite. If an appetite stimulant is needed cyproheptadine is gentler than mirtazapine. (Note: mirtazapine carries a risk of inducing serotonin syndrome. Cyproheptadine is the antidote.)

Do a urine test to double-check Tempest is clear of ketones. Contact your vet for advice if you get a 'trace' result. Anything higher get her to the vets straight away.

Hope some of the above helps; just chucking out areas that you might check for safety's sake as well as dealing with the current symptoms.


Mogs
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Thank you Mogs,

I have been concerned about the Sheba fine flakes after reading your post previously, I'm considering switching completely to the whiskas +7 which are slightly higher carbs than the Sheba but she does like (I will be picking some up later today) And yes they are the one in the black packaging! I wonder if there's something about them or this batch that's putting her off so I'm not making her eat them just in case, as your unfortunate outcome is heavy in the back of my mind.

Yes she can be prone to constipation (noticed this more when she took the fd) and the last couple of days her poo has been hard. She's not showing any signs of being nauseated, she's asking for food but just won't eat the Sheba at the moment, but is happy to eat cooked chicken and thrive treats if offered. So she is hungry and eating. Just not the Sheba.

The watery vomit threw me as I'm used to seeing bile induced vomiting with my (ga) 27 year old Crunchie but his was foamy/white. This looked more like what she throws up with the hairballs but without any hair.

She's never been diagnosed with pancreas problems but, I suspect she has had some as when I started this whole sugar dance she was tender and didn't like being touched around her rib area (that's not precisely what I mean - more like the soft area there) and would growl. She's not done that since the beginning. I had no idea about anything at the time so it's only after all the education I've had on here and hindsight I wonder. She had two lots of bloods done 2 months ago and kidneys were fine. But again I might take a sample up for testing if she's not right really soon in case of a uti.

She's sleeping beside me right now. Lol bless her!
 
TempestsMum said:
So she is hungry and eating. Just not the Sheba.
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If it were me I'd trust your kitty and go for a different food.

For info, I did see a review on Sainsbury's website from a customer whose cat used to love the Fine Flakes Poultry in jelly but also refused point blank to eat the new stuff.

I was quite worried when the packaging changed because the Sheba Fine Flakes poultry pouches were the ONLY thing Saoirse could eat happily - chicken and turkey varieties ..(and it took me nearly 10 months of food trials before I landed on it). Food problems have always been my greatest fear (and so tragically justified). I was utterly dependent on that particular Sheba food for her.

TempestsMum said:
She's never been diagnosed with pancreas problems but, I suspect she has had some as when I started this whole sugar dance she was tender and didn't like being touched around her rib area (that's not precisely what I mean - more like the soft area there) and would growl. She's not done that since the beginning. I had no idea about anything at the time so it's only after all the education I've had on here and hindsight I wonder. She had two lots of bloods done 2 months ago and kidneys were fine. But again I might take a sample up for testing if she's not right really soon in case of a uti.
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[Emphasis mine]

As much as I truly dislike saying this, that sounds like the pancreas area. I'd recommend you get your vet to do a physical exam and run a SNAP fPL pancreatitis test (in-house immediate yes/no result). If positive you can get a lab-run Spec fPL to assess severity. Full panel with B12/folate (can be off with pancreas/GI issues) and thyroid (sometimes pancreas problems can lead to 'off' markers in the thyroid so useful to get a baseline now).

For info, Saoirse was doing brilliantly as soon as she went into remission (jet black coat, picture of health, climbing trees) but her clinical signs started to deteriorate within weeks of stopping her once-a-day microdose of insulin (nausea, occasional discomfort after eating, numbers creeping up to high end of normal range). I kept the vets informed and when her coat started to rust again I begged them to issue a Lantus Rx so that I could reinstate the daily microdose that had been working so well and which I was perfectly positioned to monitor to keep Saoirse safe. They insisted on dentals and a referral to an external specialist. The specialist put a block on Saoirse being prescribed insulin (March 2015) and our own main vet could not overrule her opinion. The specialist really didn't have much of a clue about feline diabetes treatment (had previously seen a vet curve for Saoirse and pronounced that Saoirse was "never going to achieve remission" - just over 2 months before Saoirse went into remission after switching to a proper diet and better insulin) and she had even less of a clue about Lantus (quote, unquote: "It's not safe to give a cat any insulin if the preshot is less than 11.0mmol/L"). I had to watch my girl's clinical signs deteriorate until her BG went into the teens later last year before our own vets finally agreed to issue the Lantus Rx. (To this day I am still so angry with that woman for denying Saoirse a treatment that she needed and for which I had a huge body of data supporting the argument for its benefits plus my ability to administer it safely.)

I'm sharing this in the hope it might help you and other kitties to hear this story. Saoirse had metabolic syndrome which can manifest as a tendency for BG to spike if a diabetic or pre-diabetic fasts for more than a few hours (impaired fasting BG level is the technical term - not enough basal insulin secretion between meals). Based on my extensive and close observations of Saoirse it is my firm belief that the little bit of basal support the daily Lantus microdose gave her pancreas was just enough to take that between-meals strain off her system thus protecting the pancreas and keeping her well. That said, I considered this to be a viable treatment option for Saoirse because I've been housebound for years and was therefore in a perfect position to do the necessary monitoring to keep her safe; not everyone might be in such a position.


Mogs
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Tara,

It might be an idea to report your issues with the Sheba food to Mars Petcare. The customer service number is on the box. (I reported our problems and they asked me to send them back some pouches for testing - it's a Freepost address they gave me.)

Be sure to post an update for Tempest when you have one.

:bighug:


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
Tara,

It might be an idea to report your issues with the Sheba food to Mars Petcare. The customer service number is on the box. (I reported our problems and they asked me to send them back some pouches for testing - it's a Freepost address they gave me.)

Be sure to post an update for Tempest when you have one.

:bighug:


Mogs
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Thank you! :bighug: Really appreciate your input!

I'm just back from sainsburys with the whiskas +7 - I had some tins of butchers Classic in the cupboard she's not eager about it but did eat it when I put it down. I've removed the Sheba now and put a little bit of the whiskas down.

She's looking brighter this evening too. She's due to go in for a denatal in a few weeks so I will ask for those tests on top of the panel they run for that. (Unless of course this continues tomorrow in which case we will head to the vets on Friday).

Will let you know - I'm still hoping for a hairball lol xx
 
If you're looking for a safe hairball remedy, my vet suggested plain Vaseline (petroleum jelly). She said that's the main ingredient in hairball remedies anyway, without all the extra stuff. My cats still don't care for it, even though there's no strong taste, but it does seem to help with hairballs.
 
Critter Mom said:
Fingers and paws crossed here ... :nailbiting:

Very pleased to hear Tempest's feeling better in herself.


Mogs
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Well the whiskas +7 went down well! She scoffed a whole pouch this evening! So definitely think it's the Sheba is off or there's something wrong with it. I will contact the company and say something. All seems back to normal so will keep a close eye tomorrow and see how she gets on. :)

Rocky&Moe said:
If you're looking for a safe hairball remedy, my vet suggested plain Vaseline (petroleum jelly). She said that's the main ingredient in hairball remedies anyway, without all the extra stuff. My cats still don't care for it, even though there's no strong taste, but it does seem to help with hairballs.
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Oh that one I forgot about it's a tiny amount on their paws or nose? I can't remember. The one I have the vet sold me earlier this year but there's no petroleum in it, seems to be mostly malt syrup.
 
TempestsMum said:
Well the whiskas +7 went down well! She scoffed a whole pouch this evening!
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Delighted to hear this, Tara.

Could you do me a favour, please? If the Whiskas +7 food is poultry-based could you post the full name of the product here? I'm looking for something to transition the Noodlebug onto temporarily until I get the diags done. I'm working on the principle that if 'old' Sheba and the Whiskas both agree with Tempest the latter might be a good interim food to try for Lúnasa. (I'm hoping in time to transition her onto Granatapet foods.) She already can't tolerate the duck variety pouches in the Sheba box (I donate them to a local cat rescue via our vets) so for both health and economic reasons I need to find new foods for her. (I really want to identify some foods she can eat in rotation.)


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
Delighted to hear this, Tara.

Could you do me a favour, please? If the Whiskas +7 food is poultry-based could you post the full name of the product here? I'm looking for something to transition the Noodlebug onto temporarily until I get the diags done. I'm working on the principle that if 'old' Sheba and the Whiskas both agree with Tempest the latter might be a good interim food to try for Lúnasa. (I'm hoping in time to transition her onto Granatapet foods.) She already can't tolerate the duck variety pouches in the Sheba box (I donate them to a local cat rescue via our vets) so for both health and economic reasons I need to find new foods for her. (I really want to identify some foods she can eat in rotation.)


Mogs
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Yes it's poultry based 2.9 carbs. :) this is it here (I occasionally bought the fish variety box for her as a once a week treat)
Sainsburys have it on offer at the moment £3 a box

image.jpeg
 
@TempestsMum
How is Tempest doing, Tara? I hope it was just the food that didn't agree with her.

Whenever you have time to give me details, I'd like to know your thoughts/experiences in using Freestyle Lite strips in your AlphaTrak meter. You've mentioned this here in the past. I'm going in that direction myself because of the exorbitant cost of AT strips. With all the testing I do it's making a big hole in my wallet!
 
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Kris & Teasel said:
@TempestsMum
How is Tempest doing, Tara? I hope it was just the food that didn't agree with her.

Whenever you have time to give me details, I'd like to know your thoughts/experiences in using Freestyle Lite strips in your AlphaTrak meter. You've mentioned this here in the past. I'm going in that direction myself because of the exorbitant cost of AT strips. With all the testing I do it's making a big hole in my wallet!
Click to expand...

Guessing it was the food as back to normal the last 2 days, waking me up by washing anything resembling skin that's not under the duvet! :woot:

@Kris & Teasel re the freestyle lite strips. I found them very good, they were only a few points of a difference from the AT strips. So I mainly used those - the only time I really used the AT ones were if she went low and I wanted to be extra careful so i kept some handy. The savings really made a difference to be honest.
The AT strips I bought really cheap off medicanimal which is an online site that gives me really good discount codes and offers. So I waited until they sent me those and got them almost half price. Still have plenty left.

At the end of the day I feel the freestyle lite were excellent for daily testing. But having the AT ones for those scary moments was comforting purely for my own peace of mind.
 
TempestsMum said:
The AT strips I bought really cheap off medicanimal which is an online site that gives me really good discount codes and offers. So I waited until they sent me those and got them almost half price. Still have plenty left.
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Tara, how much nett of discount did you pay for the AT2 test strips from Medicanimal?

Delighted to hear that Tempest's feeling better (and giving you bed baths!).

:bighug:


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
Tara, how much nett of discount did you pay for the AT2 test strips from Medicanimal?

Delighted to hear that Tempest's feeling better (and giving you bed baths!).

:bighug:


Mogs
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Hi Mogs,

Thanks I was delighted to wake up to the 'bed bath' haha always a good sign. :) :bighug:

They are 52.60 I believe on medicanimal I got them for £33 so a good saving - they also gave me £3.30 back to spend on my next order which you also get 10% back on and can save that for 60 or 90 days I think.
They do sales occasionally which is when I bought my last lot for the £33 minus a 20% discount code which stacks on the sale. - hope that makes sense.
 
Thanks, Tara. Wish I'd known they did such good discounts. I use animeddirect. Their list price is £39.99 for a pod of 50 AT2 strips (cheapest list price I've ever found), but I've never once had a discount voucher from them.

FYI if you need one-off/occasional vet products and don't have any discount vouchers for medicanimal it's worth checking prices on animeddirect; their list prices have consistently been the lowest of all the veterinary suppliers I've seen in the more than two years I've been buying from them.


Mogs
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,
Critter Mom said:
Thanks, Tara. Wish I'd known they did such good discounts. I use animeddirect. Their list price is £39.99 for a pod of 50 AT2 strips (cheapest list price I've ever found), but I've never once had a discount voucher from them.

FYI if you need one-off/occasional vet products and don't have any discount vouchers for medicanimal it's worth checking prices on animeddirect; their list prices have consistently been the lowest of all the veterinary suppliers I've seen in the more than two years I've been buying from them.


Mogs
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That's good to know Mogs thanks so much!
If I get any more vouchers or codes I will let you know. They do send me some to send to friends or family. :)
 
TempestsMum said:
Guessing it was the food as back to normal the last 2 days, waking me up by washing anything resembling skin that's not under the duvet! :woot:

@Kris & Teasel re the freestyle lite strips. I found them very good, they were only a few points of a difference from the AT strips. So I mainly used those - the only time I really used the AT ones were if she went low and I wanted to be extra careful so i kept some handy. The savings really made a difference to be honest.
The AT strips I bought really cheap off medicanimal which is an online site that gives me really good discount codes and offers. So I waited until they sent me those and got them almost half price. Still have plenty left.

At the end of the day I feel the freestyle lite were excellent for daily testing. But having the AT ones for those scary moments was comforting purely for my own peace of mind.
Click to expand...

I'm glad to know that Tempest is doing well. Hadn't seen anything from you since you mentioned her GI upset so I was wondering whether things had taken a turn.

Thanks for the info on the Freestyle Lite strips. I see on your SS that the heading shows that you use an AlpaTrak meter. Are the BG values you entered on it numbers generated with FS strips? I've been wondering how to show it on my SS when I start using FS strips - same SS or set up a new one. I've done a few tests comparing FS strip to AT strip on the same blood droplet and so far the values are very, very close.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I'm glad to know that Tempest is doing well. Hadn't seen anything from you since you mentioned her GI upset so I was wondering whether things had taken a turn.

Thanks for the info on the Freestyle Lite strips. I see on your SS that the heading shows that you use an AlpaTrak meter. Are the BG values you entered on it numbers generated with FS strips? I've been wondering how to show it on my SS when I start using FS strips - same SS or set up a new one. I've done a few tests comparing FS strip to AT strip on the same blood droplet and so far the values are very, very close.
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Yeas sorry about the slow updates I've not been too well lately and been really busy in work so getting home at 9pm and falling into bed lol and I wanted to be doubly sure Tempest was 100% back to normal. I'm a bit of a wait and watch before I decide things.

I didn't change my ss I just interchanged them but mostly used the FS strips as I got more and more confident with them. At the end of the day there's always going to be a slight variation even if you used 2 AT or 2 FS strips on the same blood droplet. So I really think it's pretty much the same.
 
TempestsMum said:
Yeas sorry about the slow updates I've not been too well lately and been really busy in work so getting home at 9pm and falling into bed lol and I wanted to be doubly sure Tempest was 100% back to normal. I'm a bit of a wait and watch before I decide things.

I didn't change my ss I just interchanged them but mostly used the FS strips as I got more and more confident with them. At the end of the day there's always going to be a slight variation even if you used 2 AT or 2 FS strips on the same blood droplet. So I really think it's pretty much the same.
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Thanks for this Tara!
 
Tara, another favour if you can manage it, please:

Do you still have some pouches from the Sheba batch that upset Tempest's GI system? If you do is there any chance that you could post a note of the date on the box AND the date on the pouches, please? I've still got to give Lúnasa Sheba Fine Flakes in Jelly Poultry Collection for the time being and I'd rather steer clear of any questionable batches of the food.

I hope you're feeling a little better in yourself today and that Tempest is in fine fettle.

:bighug:


Mogs
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Tara,
I hope that both of you are feeling much better.
I'm so happy that Tempest is in remission.

Mogs @Critter Mom!
I have read with great interest your story about the denying insulin for Saoirse and I have something to add to it and I hope that Tara would not mind that her post is becoming a host for another kitty's story - - I mean Rocky's.
It looks to me that Rocky, just like Saoirse needs a very small dose of insulin because as soon as I stop he starts feeling worse and his numbers climb up a bit. My vet would let me have more insulin but in case she didn't there is a solution:

you ask your vet for a repeat prescription for insulin which you than take to a pharmacy (only for insulin used to treat humans not pets as pet's one is dispensed from the vet). After the pharmacy dispenses the first lot your prescription stays there and you can request another lot direct from the pharmacy as the prescription is valid for a long time. I can find out exact period of time you can use that prescription for repeats. Your vet would not know how many vials of insulin you would need as they haven't got a clue about human insulins. My vet would not know that the vial I got for Rocky in January is still working for us now and we are in October! You also make a deal with the vet: they will charge you for writing that prescription (RX in short) because you take it away so you can argue that you don't want to pay that RX fee every time you get a prescription as FD is usually a long term condition.

I have decided to speak about it as it is a very important information and could potentially help another cat.
Hugs to everyone
Marlena:cat::cat::cat:
 
@Critter Mom

So sorry Mogs I've been really unwell and have had to go to work this week so been going to bed pretty much as soon as I got in the door. Hope this isn't too late!

The date on the pouches is 06 08 2018
The box number and batch is 020818 20 18:46
LT35-004

Really sorry I'm so late with this xxx
 
Hi Tara,

Thanks for the batch info.

I'm really sorry to hear how poorly you have been this week. I hope you can get some good rest over the weekend and that you'll feel much better very soon. I also hope that Tempest is fully recovered from the GI upset.

:bighug:


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
Hi Tara,

Thanks for the batch info.

I'm really sorry to hear how poorly you have been this week. I hope you can get some good rest over the weekend and that you'll feel much better very soon. I also hope that Tempest is fully recovered from the GI upset.

:bighug:


Mogs
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You are more than welcome. Does it match your bad batch in any way?

I had lots planned for this weekend as was trying to spring clean my room to redecorate - but sitting on the sofa still... Just can't seem to move yesterday and today. Lol oh well there's always next week I guess.

Thank you for the well wishes.
Tempest is back to normal and she's on tescos finest and +7 whiskas now and eating those well so will stick to that for now. :)
 
TempestsMum said:
You are more than welcome. Does it match your bad batch in any way?
Click to expand...
It's later than the batches I've had problems with. The worst ones have mid-July 2018 dates. I think the new formulation must be a major issue.

I'm going to try switching Lúnasa to the Whiskas 7+. Her stools started getting clay-like, soft and more frequent on the new Sheba. I'm feeding her the last of the yellow-box Sheba poultry pouches at the moment and her stool colour has started going back to a better colour and consistency again (anti-jinx).

I won't be giving her the Sheba poultry collection again. Just praying that she'll make the transition to the different food without problems.

Very glad to hear Tempest is well.


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
It's later than the batches I've had problems with. The worst ones have mid-July 2018 dates. I think the new formulation must be a major issue.

I'm going to try switching Lúnasa to the Whiskas 7+. Her stools started getting clay-like, soft and more frequent on the new Sheba. I'm feeding her the last of the yellow-box Sheba poultry pouches at the moment and her stool colour has started going back to a better colour and consistency again (anti-jinx).

I won't be giving her the Sheba poultry collection again. Just praying that she'll make the transition to the different food without problems.

Very glad to hear Tempest is well.


Mogs
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Click to expand...

Tempest had no problems switching to the whiskas - in fact I just stopped feeding the Sheba and went straight to the whiskas but! I had been giving her the odd +7 pouch previously so it wasn't a shock to her stomach.
I won't be buying Sheba again either, bit annoying as she liked it prior to that and it's easy to get.

Hope they go down as well as they have with my kitty :)

Marlena said:
How wonderful that Tempest is feeling better!
Now take care of yourself Tara.
Sending lots of love and hugs
Marlena:bighug::bighug::bighug:
Click to expand...


Thanks Marlena - hope all is well with you and ?Rocky too! Xx
 
TempestsMum said:
Tempest had no problems switching to the whiskas - in fact I just stopped feeding the Sheba and went straight to the whiskas but! I had been giving her the odd +7 pouch previously so it wasn't a shock to her stomach.
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Thanks for this info, Tara; helps to know Tempest had a seamless transition to the Whiskas. I've ordered some for my little Noodlebug. Fingers and paws crossed it will agree with her.


Mogs
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