Tell me there is hope?

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Ronald Kitty

Ronald Kitty

Member Since 2020
Hi:

My name is Pat and the picture is Ron, my best friend. Ron and his sister Herminie are bother and sister manx cats that were rescued 7 years ago from a pail on the side of a gravel road in rural Iowa .

I’m truly at my emotional and physical wits end. Ron had Fatty Liver last fall wherein I paid for by taking out a loan. Happy to do it. Now, he has developed diabetes which I recently learned is common with cats with Fatty Liver Disease.

Now, we are facing a cat that is my best friend and a part of the family that no one can seem to help. Ron has been on several (4) types of insulin in 2 months and I have been told several different stories by two different local vets. This last change was to an insulin called Lantus and told not to check his blood sugar for 1 full week by our local vet. He is at 3 units a day for a 24 lb cat. He was acting very odd over the weekend and we tested him and it was 625. We gave him an extra dose and that brought him down to 482 several hours later. I called the local vet and reported we had updated his amount to 4 units twice a day and she was not concerned.

I no longer have any trust in the vets but I don’t know what to do. He drinks gallons of water and in return urinates mountains of urine. His paws need to be cleaned with a toothbrush when I can get away from work and the house is swept in an attempt to not scratch the wood floors we are walking over his litter. I can’t test him everyday due to my work schedule and the fact that I feel horrible poking him all of the time.

I’m out of money, ideas, hope and patience. Can anyone help with some advice? I love this guy and he brings so much happiness to our lives; however I don’t want him miserable. Is there hope for us?
 

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Hello! I'm so sorry no one has answered your post yet. There is always hope, and you're in the right place! Well, almost ;) Unfortunately I'm not one of the experts around here, but I'd like to suggest that since Ron is on Lantus, that you also re-post in the Lantus and Levemir forum here:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-basaglar-glargine-and-levemir-detemir.9/

You'll get more eyes on your post over there. The downside is that it's a very active forum, so you might need to bump your post up a few times. Also, I don't know what part of the world you're in, but the board seems to be mostly asleep right now (it's 1:00 am here in CA where I am).

One thing I'll say is most of us are big advocates of testing here -- and most would agree that going a week without testing is dangerous. You're right to disagree with your vet. :)

Ok, like I said, it's very late here and I'm off to bed. I'll check on your post in the morning and if you haven't gotten some advice yet, I'll try to point you toward a couple of Lantus folks who can help. Give Ron a hug for me! :bighug:

Edit: Forgot to mention - at the top of the Lantus/Lev forums, there are a lot of "stickied" threads with lots of useful info. It's a good place to start if you haven't seen it yet.
 
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Yes there is hope. Feline diabetes is very manageable by using a good insulin, a low carb canned food diet, and home testing.


You are using a very good insulin for cats. However I believe your dose is probably too high and that may also be the reason you're seeing higher numbers. In order to protect the body from becoming hypoglycemic when too much insulin is given, the body produces extra glucose and that may be why you're seeing the higher numbers at a high dose. Most cats need between 1 - 2 units twice a day. 4 units is a very high dose and also your vet increased it by too much. Lantus should only be increased buy 1/4 to 1/2 unit at a time.

You said your vet recommended only testing once a week. Does that mean you were home testing or taking your cat to the vet to be tested? If you are home testing that is great. That is what we recommend and you should test before every shot to make sure it is safe to give the dose. If you are home testing are you using a human glucose meter or a pet glucose meter? Both work well and it is just a matter of preference to which one you use. We like to know in case we need to give you advice about either the dose or the glucose reading.

A low carb can food diet also will help keep the glucose levels down. Can you tell us what you are currently feeding your cat? Does it include dry food? Most dry foods are high in carbs including prescription ones. However do not remove any dry food yet until you lower the dose and are home testing. Removing dry food from a diet can significantly drop glucose levels and we do not want your cat to become hypoglycemic.

Feline diabetes is a very manageable disease and we can help you learn to give the best care to Ron.
 
Hi Pat and Ron and welcome to Fdmb. this is a very supportive and knowledgeable place to be and yes there is every hope we can help you help Ron.
I agree with what the others have said. You need to be testing the blood sugars every day to make sure Ron is safe. Test before EVERY shot to see it is safe to give the insulin.
I would suggest you set up a spreadsheet and start putting in any blood glucose levels you can get. If you have any trouble setting up the SS someone will help you.You only have to ask.
Here is the link
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

Don’t ever give an extra dose of insulin during the cycle as it is a dangerous thing to do. Only give it every 12 hours. Lantus is a great insulin for cats.
Ask lots of questions. We are happy to help.

Here is a useful link
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/
 
Oh my gosh so GLAD you found FDMB We are glad you did. Sanity WILL return!
This is the best place for you, to help your best friend. Its a bit of a learning curve but seriously if I could do it you can!
WELCOME TO FDMB!
Theres a wealth of info here waiting for you to use. Listen to these good folks and learn. YOU CAN DO THIS!
jeanne
 
Pat, your search is over. Sadly feline diabetes is not a priority in veterinary colleges so most vets will give you an educated guess and out the door you go.
This will require a leap of faith on your part, trusting internet strangers above someone with a degree on their wall. We are all volunteers and have been doing this for years. There is no such thing as a stupid question here, we all started somewhere, we all laugh and sometimes cry together and for lack of a less dramatic phrase we are a family and if you're willing we can help you.
 
Welcome!

I know it seems like a lot right now, but it will get easier of that we can all testify, most of us started just like you or worse, but you will get the hang of all this feline diabetes stuff and he certainly can go back to being his happy self, hang in there.

As they mentioned the insulin you are using is a very good one for cats, but the dose is probably wrong, for us to be able to help you and for you to help Ron one of the best thing you can do is start testing at home and recording the results you get, that is the information you need to be able to know what is really going on, and that is the only way to keep him safe while giving insulin ( sorry if we sound a bit pushy about home testing but some of us have found the hard way how really important that is) one thing you have to consider is you will be poking his ear and cat ears fortunately for them are not as sensitive as human hands so don't think poking his ear is like when you poke your finger, and with proper training (that includes some bribing with something yummy) some cats may eventually even volunteer for testing

The second very important thing to do is diet, just like humans diabetic cats have to watch what they eat no more candy for him ( or in cat's case no more carbohydrates) so what are you feeding him? His food needs to be low in carbohydrates and as high in protein as possible, and wet food

Regarding the litter which one are you using? Is the litter sticking to his paws or is he having some trouble getting into the litter box?

Where are you located,? we may be able to give some ideas about what and where to buy supplies so that you can save some money (home testing saves a lot of money in vets sorry again with the home testing;))
 
Pat Borel said:
I’m out of money, ideas, hope and patience. Can anyone help with some advice? I love this guy and he brings so much happiness to our lives; however I don’t want him miserable. Is there hope for us?
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Hope. There is absolutely hope for you Pat and for your extra sweet cat Ron. Give him a hug from all of us here.
:bighug::bighug::bighug:

You mentioned Iowa. Do you still live there?

This is the best place for new members to start out. We want to get you started with the basics before you switch to the ISG (Insulin Specific Group) forum for lantus.

p.s. I've been up and down I-35, been to Davenport, Manly and surrounding areas. Beautiful country, part of our heartland, farming country but big cities too.
 
Hello Pat! Ron is a handsome boy and I love that your cats are named Ron and Hermione. (Huge Harry Potter fan here.)

I want to help you by telling you my Billy's story. Billy's a fat boy. He has a history of steroid shots because of his asthma. When he was young, he got one once a month for years. Then we got him cut down to 2-3 year.

One day he stopped eating. We took him to the vet. He had an infection and diabetes with a BGL over 500. When he got home, he was very sick. Didn't eat for two days, lied around with his eyes half closed. Had litter caked in his back feet because he had diabetic neuropathy. We thought he was going to die.



We found this message board, started ignoring our vet's initial advice, and started following the advice here. (We love our vet, but he doesn't know feline diabetes as well as experienced members on this board do.) We switched Billy to a low carb canned food diet. Tested his blood often. Reduced his insulin dose as advised by this site. 11 days later, he looked like this.



No more litter caked in his feet. Active, alert, and full of purrs. We got our baby back, and he was starting to do things like jump up to the window, which we hadn't seen him do in months.

Now, Billy is in remission and diet controlled. The moral of this story? You can help Ron. You absolutely can. Even if he ends up needing insulin the rest of his life, he can have a long and healthy life.

You need to test his BGL. Before every single shot. If I hadn't been doing that, I would have given Billy 2 units of insulin on day 5 when his BGL was only 52. He would have died. You need to get some mid-cycle tests when your schedule allows. Those are the tests that tell you when to change the dose. Ear testing is harder on you than Ron, I promise. I used low carb freeze dried chicken for a post test treat, and Billy got to where he would come running when I picked up the testing kit.

To get the best help here, you need to set up a signature and spreadsheet. It's wicked easy, even I could do it, and I'm not Excel girl. Take a look at the link in my signature that says "Billy's Spreadsheet." You can see the progress he made, the tests we did, and that scary day 5. The instructions for setting up your own are here.

You can do this. I know it feels overwhelming right now, but it's just a matter of a little knowledge and a little practice.
 
Thank you. We do test him but I feel like we are always poking at him. He tests around 600 and my vet shrugs her shoulders when I tell her what he tests at and tells me to not test him so much. She is a good vet, but doesn't specialize in cats. I know he won't eat canned food, but I'm certainly game to try. I'm fairly good at Excel - that is a good idea. I feel defeated, but I think we can do this maybe I just need an attitude adjustment!

Thanks.
 
We have a standardized, color coded spreadsheet. There is a template you copy. No need to "reinvent the wheel" as I tell folks. Simply follow the instructions to copy the template and set up your own copy for your cat.

Step by step instructions include directions for setup on a pc, tablet, smartphone with accompanying diagrams.
See here: FDMB Spreadsheet Instructions

What it all means is here: Understanding the Spreadsheet/Grid

You do need a google account first.
 
Ronald Kitty said:
Thank you. We do test him but I feel like we are always poking at him. He tests around 600 and my vet shrugs her shoulders when I tell her what he tests at and tells me to not test him so much. She is a good vet, but doesn't specialize in cats. I know he won't eat canned food, but I'm certainly game to try. I'm fairly good at Excel - that is a good idea. I feel defeated, but I think we can do this maybe I just need an attitude adjustment!

Thanks.
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Hang in there your situation with the vet is unfortunately quite common, vets a lot of times do not know how to handle diabetic cats but won't admit it, and that has caused a lot of us sooo much trouble, sorrow, worries and anguish. My vet mentioned he even recommended not to test so that the owner wouldn't get stressed :mad: as if one wouldn't get even more stressed by seeing them ill and suffering and since they do not recommend the owners to change diet or test and even use insulin more suited for dog of course in they experience cats don't do well with diabetes but that is soo not true !

After Babu went in remission the vet admitted he thought he wouldn't last more than a month after his diagnose and that was 4 years ago he is now a very happy and active 17 year old cat

What is he eating right now?
 
Ronald Kitty said:
Thank you. We do test him but I feel like we are always poking at him. He tests around 600 and my vet shrugs her shoulders when I tell her what he tests at and tells me to not test him so much. She is a good vet, but doesn't specialize in cats. I know he won't eat canned food, but I'm certainly game to try. I'm fairly good at Excel - that is a good idea. I feel defeated, but I think we can do this maybe I just need an attitude adjustment!

Thanks.
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Heh... I got the exact "don't test him so much" from an internal medicine vet once too. Claimed it would "destroy the owner / pet bond." Funny thing is, Rocket usually gets all happy and purry when it's time to test. :rolleyes: Rocket is a different story, he has an underlying condition (acromegaly) which we had treated last summer. Lonnnnnnnggggg story short, his numbers can be pretty volatile, so he has to be tested more often. You'll get the hang of it, I promise. :)
 
Ronald Kitty said:
Thank you. We do test him but I feel like we are always poking at him. He tests around 600 and my vet shrugs her shoulders when I tell her what he tests at and tells me to not test him so much. She is a good vet, but doesn't specialize in cats. I know he won't eat canned food, but I'm certainly game to try. I'm fairly good at Excel - that is a good idea. I feel defeated, but I think we can do this maybe I just need an attitude adjustment!

Thanks.
Click to expand...
The change in diet will make a difference. Most dry foods are about 30-40% carb. A diabetic should have foods under 10 carb.
Don’t worry about poking. I’ve poked my cats ears about 5 times a day for three years and they are FINE.
 
Ronald Kitty said:
Thank you. We do test him but I feel like we are always poking at him. He tests around 600 and my vet shrugs her shoulders when I tell her what he tests at and tells me to not test him so much. She is a good vet, but doesn't specialize in cats. I know he won't eat canned food, but I'm certainly game to try. I'm fairly good at Excel - that is a good idea. I feel defeated, but I think we can do this maybe I just need an attitude adjustment!

Thanks.
Click to expand...
You not only can do this, you WILL! Once things mellow some and you get into a grove... You will be dispensing advice to other threads just like this one. YOU GOT THIS!!!
 
Ronald Kitty said:
He tests around 600 and my vet shrugs her shoulders
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One thing we try and avoid is telling a new member their vet is....deficient shall we say. I cannot begin to tell you what's wrong with that, 600 is very high.
> Whether your cat likes it or not canned food is the way to go.
> I did my spread sheets in Excel, big mistake. If you set up one of ours the other members can see what's happening day by day with no privacy concerns.
I'll get you some help with that @Marje and Gracie
> You will be poking him a lot, that's just the way it is. Again I'm not trying to scare you off but it needs to be done and like all cats and dogs they know you're not doing this to hurt them.
Oops, just realized Deb already gave you spreadsheet info. She's the busybody here. ;)
 
We feel your pain and frustration. Switch to canned food. ASAP. It made a big difference in Cleo's drinking and did bring down her BG#'s right away. We're on the Purina DM canned. It's a not too expensive and most vets support it. We were on the dry DM but it has too many carbs as does almost all dry food. Our current specialist vet said you only have to test every 4 hrs. on Lantus as it's a slow acting insulin and it builds up a level in the tissues then releases at a given rate. The food switch is fairly easy once he decides what he likes, but you need to be aware of the carb content. Some canned foods are really high in fat, and also can have some grain mixed in which relates to carbs.
 
Lisa and Witn (GA) said:
Yes there is hope. Feline diabetes is very manageable by using a good insulin, a low carb canned food diet, and home testing.


You are using a very good insulin for cats. However I believe your dose is probably too high and that may also be the reason you're seeing higher numbers. In order to protect the body from becoming hypoglycemic when too much insulin is given, the body produces extra glucose and that may be why you're seeing the higher numbers at a high dose. Most cats need between 1 - 2 units twice a day. 4 units is a very high dose and also your vet increased it by too much. Lantus should only be increased buy 1/4 to 1/2 unit at a time.

You said your vet recommended only testing once a week. Does that mean you were home testing or taking your cat to the vet to be tested? If you are home testing that is great. That is what we recommend and you should test before every shot to make sure it is safe to give the dose. If you are home testing are you using a human glucose meter or a pet glucose meter? Both work well and it is just a matter of preference to which one you use. We like to know in case we need to give you advice about either the dose or the glucose reading.

A low carb can food diet also will help keep the glucose levels down. Can you tell us what you are currently feeding your cat? Does it include dry food? Most dry foods are high in carbs including prescription ones. However do not remove any dry food yet until you lower the dose and are home testing. Removing dry food from a diet can significantly drop glucose levels and we do not want your cat to become hypoglycemic.

Feline diabetes is a very manageable disease and we can help you learn to give the best care to Ron.
Click to expand...

We are using a home test and test his ear. Now, he is on 5 units in the morning and 5 at night. Do you think that is too much? I will be getting some canned food this weekend, but pretty sure he won't eat it. He has to eat to take insulin.

Thanks.
 
Ronald Kitty said:
We are using a home test and test his ear. Now, he is on 5 units in the morning and 5 at night. Do you think that is too much? I will be getting some canned food this weekend, but pretty sure he won't eat it. He has to eat to take insulin.

Thanks.
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Yes, 5 units is too high unless there are any other health issues that would require that much insulin. Most cats only need between 1-2 units per dose. I am concerned that he may become hypoglycemic which is very dangerous and could lead to permanent damage or worse.

Do not change the diet until you significantly reduce the dose.
 
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
Hang in there your situation with the vet is unfortunately quite common, vets a lot of times do not know how to handle diabetic cats but won't admit it, and that has caused a lot of us sooo much trouble, sorrow, worries and anguish. My vet mentioned he even recommended not to test so that the owner wouldn't get stressed :mad: as if one wouldn't get even more stressed by seeing them ill and suffering and since they do not recommend the owners to change diet or test and even use insulin more suited for dog of course in they experience cats don't do well with diabetes but that is soo not true !

After Babu went in remission the vet admitted he thought he wouldn't last more than a month after his diagnose and that was 4 years ago he is now a very happy and active 17 year old cat

What is he eating right now?
Click to expand...
He is eating Science Diet Diet Cat Food - Chicken. I also got him so diabetic food from the vet. He is not real fond of that - the raccoons we feed won't even eat it!!!
 
Karen&Rocket said:
Hello! I'm so sorry no one has answered your post yet. There is always hope, and you're in the right place! Well, almost ;) Unfortunately I'm not one of the experts around here, but I'd like to suggest that since Ron is on Lantus, that you also re-post in the Lantus and Levemir forum here:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-basaglar-glargine-and-levemir-detemir.9/

You'll get more eyes on your post over there. The downside is that it's a very active forum, so you might need to bump your post up a few times. Also, I don't know what part of the world you're in, but the board seems to be mostly asleep right now (it's 1:00 am here in CA where I am).

One thing I'll say is most of us are big advocates of testing here -- and most would agree that going a week without testing is dangerous. You're right to disagree with your vet. :)

Ok, like I said, it's very late here and I'm off to bed. I'll check on your post in the morning and if you haven't gotten some advice yet, I'll try to point you toward a couple of Lantus folks who can help. Give Ron a hug for me! :bighug:

Edit: Forgot to mention - at the top of the Lantus/Lev forums, there are a lot of "stickied" threads with lots of useful info. It's a good place to start if you haven't seen it yet.
Click to expand...
Soooooo much information on here I thought I would spend the weekend going through the treads and figuring out a plan of action with all of this good advice.

Thanks.
 
Lisa and Witn (GA) said:
Yes, 5 units is too high unless there are any other health issues that would require that much insulin. Most cats only need between 1-2 units per dose. I am concerned that he may become hypoglycemic which is very dangerous and could lead to permanent damage or worse.

Do not change the diet until you significantly reduce the dose.
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Even though he is 24-25 lbs - that is too much insulin?
 
Lisa and Witn (GA) said:
You can get it at most pet stores. Look for it in the dog treat section. It is more economical to buy it there than buying the car treat version.
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I hate to be such a pest - but I found the items below on Amazon would any of these work? A pet store for me would be an afternoon off as I would have to travel to a city.
 
Ronald Kitty said:
I hate to be such a pest - but I found the items below on Amazon would any of these work? A pet store for me would be an afternoon off as I would have to travel to a city.
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I can't really tell from the packages. Two of them look like freeze dried dry foods rather than treats. We buy Halo Liv-a-littles. It's Halo brand freeze dried chicken, and you can get it on Amazon.

You can also use little bits of plain cooked chicken breast. My Billy loves chicken.
 
Ronald Kitty said:
He is eating Science Diet Diet Cat Food - Chicken. I also got him so diabetic food from the vet. He is not real fond of that - the raccoons we feed won't even eat it!!!
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The Science Diet is way too high in carbohydrates it is 35.2% according to Hill's web page (https://www.hillspet.com/cat-food/sd-feline-adult-dry) wich is no suprise since is dry food, so it is rasing his blood suggar for sure, you will need to transition him to wet low carbohydrates, it may take some time because some cats are kibble addicts but with a little patience it can be done and it does not have to be the vet's diabetic food there are quite a few comercial ones that will work just fine and that he will probably like a lot more.

There's a list that we use here that can help you find some adequate food this is the link (http://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf) you just have to look for food that is 10% or less in carbs in this list

Dr Lisa in her web site has some very good tips for transitioning kibble addicts to wet food this is the link http://www.catinfo.org/docs/TipsForTransitioning1-14-11.pdf

Ronald Kitty said:
View attachment 51864
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Reagarding the treats is hard to say but from the limited information I could find it seems that the Pet craft is only one ingredient chicken frezee dried so it appears like a good option, the other two look more like whole foods and have other ingredients, they could be ok but we would need to do some research to see if they are really low carb
 
Ronald Kitty said:
Soooooo much information on here I thought I would spend the weekend going through the treads and figuring out a plan of action with all of this good advice.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
We like to give individualized recommendations and advice to every member.

Please see back in post #11 for those spreadsheet setup instructions. We have a couple of members that can help you set up a spreadsheet for your cat Ronald. Takes them only a little bit of time to do that. Just ask and we can "tag" someone for you.
 
I've been a member here for a long time. The Lantus board is the most active board on FDMB -- we have lots of cats who are prescribed Lantus and to date, 439 cats have gone into remission and lots more are well regulated. So yes, there is hope.

4 types of insulin in 2 months is a lot. Lantus takes a while to work so please don't get frustrated. It's one of the two insulins that's recommended for treating feline diabetes.

Please let us know how we can help.
 
I can so identify with your story. Your cat has crazy pee production, copious drinking, lethargy, and dragging the ktty litter all over the house as stuck to his sticky paws just like Marley did in January. My cat's blood sugar was 486, and I got the no surprise diagnosis of diabetes. But, to complicate things, I was out of the country for a month after the vet visit, so I had to give him dry diabetic food (DM Purina) in an auto-feeder until my return and family had to come daily to visit and take care of the litter box- they bought 3 to rotate! Like you, my vet did not mention home testing except a visit the next week after starting insulin on February 21st. To give you hope, these wonderful volunteers her recommended free feeding instead of every 12 hours, showed me cheaper ways then the prescribed DM Purina soft food that was started with the lantus insulin, and gave me advice on the insulin dosing. He was started on 1 unit lantus every 12 hours and titrated down due to a good response.
So, this IS a commitment, but we do the best we can with finances, supports, work schedules and self care too! Over time, Marley reversed all the issues- minimal drinking, the usual use of the litter box, way more energy now, better grooming and fur, pristine paws etc. He has never noticed that I give him insulin. It is a non issue. I give it when he is just completing his meal. He stands still for the blood testing and now comes as he knows that this will lead up to a lovely meal! I am a newbie, but if you take the time to read the amazing resources on the site, and be aware of best practice guidelines https://www.aaha.org/aaha-guidelines/diabetes-management/treatment/insulin-therapies/ also, and ask questions you will feel in control and your hope with blossom and grow. Good luck with best buddy Ron.... Such a touching story of rescue and love
 
I don’t know about the other 2 but the Feline Naturals freeze dried food is very suitable. HOWEVER it is low carb so you just can’t swap over without monitoring the BGs closely or reducing the insulin dose and doing it very slowly. . Or you will risk a hypo event and a possible upset tummy.

I would recommend you set up your spreadsheet then we can help you with the change over. I would buy a pkt of the Feline Naturals first and give him some as a treat to see if he will eat it.
 
I am so overwhelmed with all of this great advice. I have tears running down my face just thinking there is help. I have been an animal lover all of my life. We live on an acreage and feed the deer, raccoon, birds and squirrels. For some strange reason I'm exceptionally close to Ron. I have ordered treats from Amazon and will go to the vet to get the wet canned food. I have downloaded all of the advice to see if I can get him to eat and go from there. I'm so thankful for this forum you have no idea. BTW we have dialed back the dosage to 3 units fearful we were giving him too much. Again - he is 25 lbs so I hope this is okay?

Thanks.
Pat and Ron
 
We have dialed back the units for Ron to 3 tonight based on what I read here. Again- I am worried because he is 25 pounds that 3 is enough. Can everyone please chime into agree or disagree if this is right or wrong?
 
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
Welcome!

I know it seems like a lot right now, but it will get easier of that we can all testify, most of us started just like you or worse, but you will get the hang of all this feline diabetes stuff and he certainly can go back to being his happy self, hang in there.

As they mentioned the insulin you are using is a very good one for cats, but the dose is probably wrong, for us to be able to help you and for you to help Ron one of the best thing you can do is start testing at home and recording the results you get, that is the information you need to be able to know what is really going on, and that is the only way to keep him safe while giving insulin ( sorry if we sound a bit pushy about home testing but some of us have found the hard way how really important that is) one thing you have to consider is you will be poking his ear and cat ears fortunately for them are not as sensitive as human hands so don't think poking his ear is like when you poke your finger, and with proper training (that includes some bribing with something yummy) some cats may eventually even volunteer for testing

The second very important thing to do is diet, just like humans diabetic cats have to watch what they eat no more candy for him ( or in cat's case no more carbohydrates) so what are you feeding him? His food needs to be low in carbohydrates and as high in protein as possible, and wet food

Regarding the litter which one are you using? Is the litter sticking to his paws or is he having some trouble getting into the litter box?

Where are you located,? we may be able to give some ideas about what and where to buy supplies so that you can save some money (home testing saves a lot of money in vets sorry again with the home testing;))
Click to expand...
 
We have a formula for a starting dose for a cat that is based on weight, but otherwise weight doesn't come into the picture. We decide on how to change the Lantus dose based on the blood sugar numbers, and how low the dose is taking the cat. We have large cats on small doses and small cats on larger doses. There is a saying, Ever Cat is Different. Dose needs can also change over time. My girl was a little more complicated with some secondary conditions, but a good dose for her varied from 8.75 units down to 0.5 unit, back up to 7.0 units and back down to 0.25 units. Her weight did not vary by that much over that time period.
 
We live about 60 miles north of Waterloo, Iowa. We use a sweater box with no clumping litter for Ron and Herminoe. i scoop 2 times per day. With the water intake he usually pee's on his paws as I'm sure everyone knows which is another frustrating issue! I can deal with these "inconvenient" things, but not that I feel like we are neglecting him somehow with blood sugar levels being so high. I've ordered the freeze dried treats and I will get the canned food this weekend. We will some how start testing and using the spreadsheet everyone has provided me for more input on his sugar levels.

These are my questions right now:

1. Is 1-2 units enough for a 25 lb cat?
2. Why does he want to be out in the cold all of a sudden?
3. Why doesn't he sleep with me anymore?
4. How can more insulin produce more sugar in his body as opposed to too low of sugar (see above)?
5. What is the answer if he won't eat wet food?
6. How do I treat his sister for food?

Thank you!!!
 
Ronald Kitty said:
Is 1-2 units enough for a 25 lb cat?
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The dose that Ronald will need is not based on his weight. It may or may not be a good dose, that's why we blood test to find out.
Ronald Kitty said:
3. Why doesn't he sleep with me anymore?
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Maybe he will when he feels better because his blood sugars are closer to normal.
Ronald Kitty said:
How can more insulin produce more sugar in his body as opposed to too low of sugar (see above)?
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It's not the insulin producing more sugar, but rather his body's self defence system dumping sugars because he is seeing numbers he's no longer used to.
Ronald Kitty said:
. What is the answer if he won't eat wet food?
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First try to get him to eat wet food. It can be a slow process, have patience. Worst case, there are some lower carb dry foods or freeze dried raw that is low carb.
Ronald Kitty said:
6. How do I treat his sister for food?
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Ideally she should get the same food he does. That'll be better for her and easier for you.
 
Ronald Kitty said:
I can deal with these "inconvenient" things, but not that I feel like we are neglecting him somehow with blood sugar levels being so high. I've ordered the freeze dried treats and I will get the canned food this weekend. We will some how start testing and using the spreadsheet everyone has provided me for more input on his sugar levels. These are my questions right now:

2. Why does he want to be out in the cold all of a sudden?
5. What is the answer if he won't eat wet food?
Thank you!!!
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2. Possible answer to question number 2 is because it's spring, and cats like to see all the mice and birds that are outside. Is Ron an indoor/outdoor kitty?

5. You might want to print out and read this document. >>>> Transitioning Dry Food Addicts to Canned Food. I used every trick and tip in that document to get my stubborn dry food addict to eat canned food. It took time and patience.

It took time for Ron to become diabetic. It will take time to get him better. Symptoms of feline diabetes can be so subtle, they are easy to miss. But now you know, you are treating him for the diabetes, and everyone here will help you to help Ron get better.

As his blood glucose becomes better controlled, he won't be drinking so much water and peeing so much. The puddles in the litter box will go from the size of small lakes, to smaller ponds, to smaller puddles, to fist size and then back to more normal size.

He is probably ravenous, wanting food all the time. That is normal, since with unregulated diabetes, the food can not be processed properly to give him the nutrition he needs.
Ronald Kitty said:
I have ordered treats from Amazon and will go to the vet to get the wet canned food.
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You do not have to get a specific food for Ron from the vet. There are other food choices that are good for a diabetic cat (and non-diabetic cats also). The Friskies Classic pate style foods are a good inexpensive choice and they come in 5.5 oz cans. Some people also feed Fancy Feast classic pates. They are smaller cans, only 3 oz, so you will need more of that size can to feed Ron and Hermione enough food.

There is a Tractor Supply Company in Waterloo Iowa and another one in Mason City. They carry the Friskies Classic pate variety packs, as well as the Fancy Feast Poultry and Beef variety packs. Check to make sure they are in stock first. I like to order on-line for pickup at the store from my local TSC.
 
Ronald Kitty said:
We have dialed back the units for Ron to 3 tonight based on what I read here. Again- I am worried because he is 25 pounds that 3 is enough. Can everyone please chime into agree or disagree if this is right or wrong?
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It's impossible to tell if that is too much or too little insulin without some blood glucose test numbers for us to look at.

Could you list a few of Ron's test numbers in your post?

The test you take before you give him the insulin is called the pre-shot test.
The pre-shot test you take in the morning is called the AMPS.
The pre-shot test you take in the evening is called the PMPS.

We then count the number of hours from the insulin dose. Any tests taken after that time are counted in a + hour format.
So, 1 hour after insulin is +1, 2 hours after insulin is +2, 3 hours after insulin is +3, etc.

So a list something like this would be helpful for us to see. Until you get your spreadsheet set up. Replace the xxx with the actual BG (blood glucose) test number you got.
AMPS xxx 3U +2 xxx +4 xxx +6 xxx
PMPS xxx 3U +2 xxx +4 xxx +6 xxx

What meter do you use for testing?
 
Ronald Kitty said:
I am so overwhelmed with all of this great advice. I have tears running down my face just thinking there is help. I have been an animal lover all of my life. We live on an acreage and feed the deer, raccoon, birds and squirrels. For some strange reason I'm exceptionally close to Ron. I have ordered treats from Amazon and will go to the vet to get the wet canned food. I have downloaded all of the advice to see if I can get him to eat and go from there. I'm so thankful for this forum you have no idea. BTW we have dialed back the dosage to 3 units fearful we were giving him too much. Again - he is 25 lbs so I hope this is okay?

Thanks.
Pat and Ron
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I'm glad you lowered the dose. I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat CC at home.
 
Hi Pat,

This thread is starting to get long. Moderators have asked if we could keep threads to under 50 posts.

So, when you get a chance, please create a new thread and link this older one up at the top.

Thanks.
 
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it but when you reduce the dose of insulin it is a good idea to test the urine for ketones.
To do this you buy a bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy.. collect a urine sample from Ron. Dip the test strip into the urine and read it exactly 15 seconds later against the colours on the side of the bottle. It should read negative. If it is above a trace of ketones you need to tell the vet and post result here.
 
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