Taz is dying I think

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Sharon and Taz

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Hi all. I am desperately trying to see if there is anything else I can do for my 18 3/4 yr old siamese, almost 10yr diabetic, taking PZI 2u am 1 pm. In brief he had been doing well until April when he developed pancreatitis, rebounded but had a setback a month later at which time he lost a lot of weight and muscle mass in his hindquarters. He again rebounded and has been pretty normal up until this past week. He has never regained his weight and now is hiding, weak, and can barely make it to his litter box. I dipsticked his straw colored urine which was neg for ketones but showed mod protein, his BG range from 180-300. I have given him NSS sq bolus intermittently since April. He seems really out of it and just barely eats 3 oz of fancy feast supplemented with deli turkey and whatever else I can get him to take. He has been on pepcid but now I have him on reglan liguid as it is easier to get in. No vomitting. He had a very dry brown small BM yesterday. I realize he may be at the end of his life, but he has always been such a fighter and has been down like this before and come back. I wondered if his loss of weight might be due to inadequate nutrient absorption due to his recent pancreatitis. Any thoughts? My vet thinks with the protein in his urine he is catabolic and it may be time to put him to sleep.
 
I'm so sorry about your baby. Maybe he needs IVs at the vets to hydrate him better than the subqs, plus electrolytes. Maybe it is cancer causing the weight loss. What about an ultrasound/Xrays/ labs? Depends of how far you want to persue this. Poor baby. I can feel your pain. Donna
 
so sorry to hear Taz is not feeling well.
I agree with donna. maybe some diagnostics to make sure what is going one. has he had any bw ?? when is the last time he had a sr. panel done ( chem panel, cbc, thyroid and throw in fPLI to check his pancreatitis)
a good sr. check up would include a bp check.

has he ever had any kidney issues? At taz's age that would not be uncommon (btw Winnie's kidney values would go up during a p-titis flare and then back down. she only ever had mild crd)
Donna's suggestion of xray and u/s are also good.

as for the pancreatitis --- what are you using ( if anything) to treat? ( and of course, that may or may not be the problem )

If he is not eating well have you tried stimulants ? mirtazapine?
if he is nauseous or in pain those too need to be addressed. ( mirtz works wonders, but only if the nausea and pain are under control )
ondansetron works great for many cats for nausea. It is a very safe med. ( it works much better in cats than reglan per the literature and my own experience. also fewer side effects. and there can be nausea w/o vomiting of course. )
and buprenorphine is very helpful for pain. Pancreatitis is a very painful condition. My Wolfie would try and hide when he was in pain and then I would give him his bup and he would perk right up .
I used all these for Winnie and Wolfie.

Of course the fluids are important. If he still seems dehydrated you may ask vet if you need to increase
( of course only if he has not heart issues) Multil B vits in subqs can often stim appetite, B12 is helpful for gastro conditions, including pancreatitis. ( can put that in fluids too )

the small stool could be from dehydration or it could be from poor motility. the later could be addressed by adding some miralax to his food ( there are many other lax and softners to try too )

Personally, I would not feel right w/o investigating further.
depending on his b/w ( if his liver is ok) pred is now considered a go to treatment for pancreatitis.
With pancreatitis, the pancreas is inflamed and using pred or dex to combat that can work wonders.
many with sugar kitties try to avoid that. But you can adjust the insulin to shoot around that.
my vet has a theory in general about cats --- never give up til you try some roids. ( of course a cat's specific health issues considered)

The urgent thing I see here is getting him to eat. Treating the underlying cause is most important. But until you can get to the vet and start further treatment if it is warranted.
here a previous post of mine I cut and pasted for you on ideas to entice a cat to eat:


Remember -- getting to the bottom of why he is not eating is most important. That way you can treat the underlying cause ( or symptoms of underlying cause) . It is always very important to get cats to eat, as they can quickly develop hepatic lipidosis from lack of food.

Here are some things you can do do entice your cat to eat:

-sometimes in order to get a cat to eat you even have to resort to dry it is more important that they eat. there are a couple low carb / grain free brands -- EVO and wellness core.

-making a buffet to give him choices

sprinkle food with :
- forta flora -- a probiotic you can get at vets or online. is very smelly and cats love the taste of it.
- parm. cheese
- smashed crumbles of dry food
- bonito tuna flakes
- halo chicken treats -- crumble into dust over food -- my Wolfie loves this stuff.
- poor a little water from tuna in water over food ( I use low sodium/no sodium added as other kinds in water has veg. broth in it and I assume that means onions, which are toxic to cats-- check labels)
- I do not have a trader joes -- but others swear by trader joe tuna for cats
- powdered oregano. yep sounds weird . but some cats like it and it will entice them to eat.
-baby food -- beechnut turkey and broth or chicken and broth. they have no onions or other additives. some babyfoods have onions . please read labels if you can't find beechnut.
- ETA -- kentucky fried chicken : )

If enticements don't work, you should consider assist feeding ( syringe or make little meatballs and place in mouth)
and/or talking to your vet about appetite stimulents ( mirtazapine or cyproheptidine)



If you would like any other information about pancreatitis please ask. ( including links to info on the meds I suggested)
I treated Winnie for several years with a rather progressive form of CP and my Wolfie had a more mild form and was also treated long term. Others on the board are also way too familiar w/ this illness.

healing wishes for Taz.
 
With the diagnostics be sure that potassium level is checked. Tucker was losing weight from November of last year up until his potassium crash in March. At least a pound a month. He has recently been shaved for another reason and I see his hind quarters are thinner than I thought. Potassium loss can lead to muscle waisting, fatigue and weight loss.

Also as Cheryl wrote, pred, B12, sub q and bupe for pain. All help Tucker quite a bit.
 
Hi I am so sorry you Taz is not doing so good....Sending Angels & tons of green healing light to help you both through this . Lots of good advice here ..Bless you both surrounding you Taz in the green healing light too ,to help find what is wrong with him... Kath
 
confused_cat Thanks all for your input. I dont think I want to drag him to the vet as it is so stressful for him and he is so sick. I had labs drawn on him in June and all were normal except his flip was still slightly elevated, hence the pepcid and fluids. What do you all think of the malabsorption/wasting issue? Prior to this week, he ate fairly well for an 18 yr old but he loses weight quick when his appetite drops off. Should he be on Viokase?
 
Can you confirm with the vet that potassium was checked. My own vet did blood work on Tucker often, but when he crashed on a Friday, the second blood draw the following Saturday revealed the potassium. We now run an electrolytes panel on Tucker each month. Could be just my vet, but electrolytes weren't checked prior.

Also, hypert can cause back end weight loss. Some hyperts lose thier appetites from not feeling well. If the T4 was on the high end of normal, senior kitties can be considered to be hypert at that range.
 
I have the results and it was 4.2. His T4 was normal as well. I have always wondered how I would know when it was his time because he has come back so often from what we thought was the end. I want to do as much as possible to keep him comfortable but if I cant get hm to eat and be able to use that ood to build tissue, its for not. If I tried steroids, what dose would he be on? With his last pancreatitis flare he vomitted alot but not this time.
 
Sharon and Taz said:
I have the results and it was 4.2. His T4 was normal as well. I have always wondered how I would know when it was his time because he has come back so often from what we thought was the end. I want to do as much as possible to keep him comfortable but if I cant get hm to eat and be able to use that ood to build tissue, its for not. If I tried steroids, what dose would he be on? With his last pancreatitis flare he vomitted alot but not this time.
Click to expand...


Ask your vet what the lab reference for the T4 is. Lab reference range is usually 1-4, if that's the case that would mean your cat is HyperT and meds need to be started.

http://www.felineoutreach.org/Education ... idism.html
 
Sharon and Taz said:
Thanks all for your input. I dont think I want to drag him to the vet as it is so stressful for him and he is so sick. I had labs drawn on him in June and all were normal except his flip was still slightly elevated, hence the pepcid and fluids. What do you all think of the malabsorption/wasting issue? Prior to this week, he ate fairly well for an 18 yr old but he loses weight quick when his appetite drops off. Should he be on Viokase?
Click to expand...

a lot can change in a sr. cat from June. can your vet do a blood draw at home?
the wasting could be from so many things . It could be the p-titis even though his symptoms are not the same as his last flare. esp since you did say his fPLI was elevated last checked.
IF it is p-titis it should be treated aggressively w/ pain meds, anti nausea (pepcid takes care of stomach acid that can cause nausea , but is really not enough for most p-titis) and an appy stim.
along w/ fluids, b12 , and as mentioned the use of steroids should be considered.
what you are using now is obviously not enough if that is the culprit.

I encourage you to see your vet and talk to him about all these issues / possible issues (The possible p-titis and thyroid issue Jen brought up-- and of course there could be more than one issue going on) .
I know I was worried in the past about the stress on my seniors to take them the vet, but a short stressful trip to the vets may save his life and allow him to live much longer happy cat days. And I kept that in my head and told my kitties that too. ;-) no regrets here on that.

the usual starting dose for pred ( and is better to use prednisolone then prednisone in cats if you can get it)
is 5mg/day. BUT ECID ( every cat is different. ) you really need your vet for that dosing advice.

continued healing wishes for Taz.
 
Thank you all for your support. I switchd him to Reglan last night and gave him more fluid and metacam. He perked up a little this afternoon and ate some homemade chicken soup. My vet was only reachable by phone as he is away til monday and he agreed that he may be having a p-titis issue and that his recent hypoglycemic events may indicate the pancreas is no longer functoning in prod of insulin and glucagon but perhaps in digestive enzyme prod and that is why he is loosing weight. (his potassium was 4.2 and his T4 was 3.4) He wants me to put Accent an his food in lieu of Viokase, continue metacam, reglan and fluids and if that is not improving his symptoms, we will start a course of steroids. He also would like to get blood so I am working on getting someone to come get it. Unfortunately my vet is a 30min. ride away(we moved) so I have to try to see a local vet. All the prayers are much appreciated as well as the advice!
 
Prayers and Healing green light coming for Taz Angels will be helping out to ...Get well soon little guy hugsssssssssssss Kath
 
Have no answers for you but you've already received a ton of very helpful and great advice. I can only add my wishes for a recovery for your boy and lots of healing prayers and vibes are being sent your way.

Emmy & Dude (& Mittsi too)
 
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