Switching over to all-wet food

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gizmos59

Member Since 2012
I have read enough to now know that an all-wet food diet is much healthier for my cats.
Here are the particulars I need to work out:
I have 2 tuxedo brothers, pushing 12 years old.
Sammy: diagnosed last year with diabetes and getting 4 units of Prozinc 2x a day.
Gizmo: Sammy's twin brother & healthy as a horse, so to speak.
They split a can of Fancy Feast 2x a day, once in the morning before I leave for work, & in the evening when I get home.
I have always left kibble out for them to munch on during the day, & it's usually mostly gone when I get home.
They LOVE their canned food at breakfast & dinner, but my job quite often keeps me gone for 10 to 12 hours a day.
I don't have the luxury of being home to give them 3 or 4 small meals a day. So what's the solution?
Do I give them each a whole can twice a day? Feed them a third time around midnight?
None of the above? Am I overthinking the whole thing? Goodness knows, they're not starving to death. In fact, Sammy could stand to lose a pound or two. He weighs in at about 19 lbs.
I just don't want to cut back too drastically on their diet.
Any & all advice would be greatly appreciated!
 
Hello and welcome to the board,

Your tuxedo brothers sound cute!

It's great that you want to switch them to all wet canned food but I strongly advise you start home testing him.. When you switch to canned (which tends to be lower carbohydrate) his insulin requirements may drop significantly. Without testing you won't know if/when that happens and by how much! He could go too low. Are you open to home testing? We can help advise if you are.

You can work out how many calories they need by this calculation:
Required calories per day = [13.6 X ideal weight in lbs] + 70

And you can find the carbohydrate levels and calories here http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food Chart Public 9-22-12.pdf

Some members here freeze the food and let it defrost for them to eat later. Some members buy a timed feeder.

Let us know on the home testing!
Wendy
 
Hi there! Yes, I see alot of folks on these boards that do home testing. I try to understand all the counts & so on that they list, besides the meter reading. But, it all looks Greek to me. I don' t understand the jargon. It's like I'm in grade school trying to understand a college textbook! My vet is wonderful, I've been going to her for years. But she doesn't do all the testing some people get from their vets. She checks his glucose & does a fructosamine test. At first we had it done monthly, but the last time she tested him, his numbers were "perfect", in her words! She sees him again next month. All I know is I see 100% improvement in Sammy under her care. He used to suffer from neuropathy & was listless & had an unhealthy coat. Now, he runs! And plays! And he' s happy as a clam! He still loves water, but then, he always did.
I know some folks might freak out about him not getting the myriad tests they may feel she should be doing, but, to me, the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. And the last 2 times we went to get tested, another unit was shaved off his Prozinc dose. He was at 6 units for the first month, when he was first diagnosed. He was a pretty sick little boy, and it seemed to come down on him very quickly. I have a good feeling she's going to drop his dose even more when we see her in Feb.
I really do want to see if an all-wet diet will help him even more.
I hope this finds you & Wendy & Tiggy well! And, as I said, any comments, suggestions, or just support, is always welcome!
 
Many of us use a timed feeder with canned food. There are a couple of types where there's space for an ice pack under the food trays. How much you leave out depends on when you're leaving the house and if they graze or if your kitties will hoover up their food. I use a 2 compartment feeder for my two cats. There are also 5 compartment feeders.
 
Well why don't you take a look at these links below and see how you feel about home testing? Then you can decide if you want to do it or not. If not, I would chat with your vet before making the move to solely wet mentioning my concerns above.

- How to home test http://www.sugarpet.net/bloodtst.html. It's surprisingly easy and painless for both you and Sammy once you get used to it. Many people here use the cheap and reliable Walmart relion.

- Getting started on the board http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18139. Key thing here is setting up a spreadsheet to track your results. You can see mine in my signature below. It can be kinda complicated to set up at first. We can help,

But anyway take a look at these and we can advise more if you think you want to give it a go. The amount of support you get from us is really up to you! Let me know if you have questions.

Wendy
 
Hi Wendy! Thanks so much for the input & the links. You're right, I didn't take into consideration his levels may drop on all-wet food. I'm really thankful you pointed that out. That could've been disastrous! The more knowledge, the better. I'm sure I could get comfortable rather quickly with the actual glucose testing. Sammy is so good about putting up with pretty much anything I may need to do to him. He's an absolute sweetie when it comes to getting his shots. And I once had a furson named Casper (God rest his soul), who passed from kidney failure, at the age of 15. I had to give him bagfuls of subcue fluids during his last months. So I have some experience with such things as having to poke & give meds & so forth.
I see the spreadsheet info says that they're designed for Lantis & Lev. Would adjustments have to be made for Prozinc?
Thanks again.
Meghan (and Sammy!)
 
Hey meghan,

Its great that you are going to home test, it will help immensely! I believe you use the same spreadsheet because prozinc works very similarly in terms of duration as lantus and levemir. However I am going to ask an experienced prozinc user to comment.

Let me know when you have picked up the meter and supplies:
1. meter
2. strips
3. lancets (Either freehand or use a lancing device; new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed; then progress to a 31g or 33g which are finer.)
4. neosporin (for healing the wound after)
5. cotton buds
6. low carb cat treats (freeze dried chicken is popular) as a reward.
7. Pack of keto- diastix for testing for ketones (FYI http://www.felinediabetes.com/ketones.htm)

While you are out pick up a hypo kit too in case you don't have one.. Karo/corn or other syrup and a few cans of high carb cat food (something with gravy like fancy feast gravy lovers)

Let us know when you are ready or if you have issues with the Spreadsheet.

Also if you are moving to all canned food you will want to choose food that is less than 10%carbs to help reduce and control blood sugar. So for fancy feast that's only the classic pâtés . Here is a list http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food Chart Public 9-22-12.pdf

Wendy
 
Hi Wendy. Thanks so much for the help. I just downloaded the food analysis list. I had no idea there was such a difference in carbs between the FF pate & the FF grilled (their favorite, of course!) Needless to say, I was stunned. Changes will be made around here, you can be sure. You know, so many foods out there don't even list this info on the package.
I will be purchasing supplies in a couple of weeks. Gotta pay the rent first! :smile:
I will let you know when I have everything on board. Then, we can go over the spreadsheet info. I'll definitely need help with that!
"Talk" to you soon!
Meghan, Sammy, & Gizmo :-D
 
To Sienne & Gabby:
I sent you a reply but I don't think it went through.
I didn't know they made an automatic feeder for wet food. I would love to see how it works. You would think it would get clogged up. But then, if they can put a man on the moon...
Their eating habits are a little different. Sammy likes to wolf down alot of his wet food, then walk away for a little while, then go back & finish it off, along with any his brother may have left behind.
Gizmo, on the other hand, will eat most of his, the walk away, period. He's done.
But, they both love to nibble their kibble throughout the day. I hate having to take it away from them.
What to do?

Thanks,
Meghan, Sammy, & Gizmo
 
Cool. I got an email from Carl and he will be posting on here soon. he said however you can use the same Spreadsheet which is good.

Also we might have you post in the prozinc forum once you are set up where the experienced people can keep an eye on you. But for now we wait until you get the supplies. I believe the Relion meter is like $15, strips are $9 for 50, and ketone strips are like $6.50. They sell feeders too.

If you use the shop link above to buy from walmart.com then the forum gets a % which helps keep the site running.

We will be waiting and watching for you!
 
Be tough on them.. no more kibble! I would LOVE to eat pizza and steak subs and chocolate all day but its not good for me :( Same for kibble and cats. You are being kind in the long run.

Did you do the calorie calculation above? You may need to increase the amount of fancy feast they get which may keep them happier.
 
Oh, I'm sure they won't complain about getting more Fancy Feast! For them, it'll be like going to Disneyland :-D
 
Hi Meghan,

Wendy sent me a PM earlier and asked if I could take a look.

I see the spreadsheet info says that they're designed for Lantis & Lev. Would adjustments have to be made for Prozinc?
Click to expand...
Wendy linked you to the "sticky thread" from the Lantus forum, which is why it said it might be specific to those insulins. But we all use the same template at google to set them up. No difference, spreadsheet wise as to which insulin you use. Here's the link to the instructions from the Tech Forum:
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

I saw you mention that at one point, Sammy was on 6u of prozinc, twice a day??? That was his starting dose? Wow! Most cats are started at 1u, some even less. Did the vet mention anything back then that made the higher dose seem logical? Sometimes there are other complications that might lead a vet to prescribe a higher dose, and I just want to make sure that doesn't apply.

So he's currently on 4u, twice a day? That's still pretty high, but not unheard of. My cat Bob started at 1u, and went up to 4u before he started to really get better.

As others have mentioned, when a switch to all canned, low carb food is done, it will often reduce your cat's insulin needs significantly. If you plan on going with the "classic" Fancy Feast flavors exclusively (great choice, that's was Bob has eaten ever since he was diagnosed), you should definitely be home testing first, and you should also probably plan on reducing the dose accordingly. Staying with 4u, switching to low carbs, without home testing is very risky.

Once you are home testing, you will need to test before every shot for sure. You'll also need to get spot checks in between shots. Prozinc is intended to last between 10-14 hours per dose, and should be most effective between 5-7 hours after the shots. That is the number you want to know. The low point, or "nadir" in the 12 hour cycle will help you to see how effective the dose is. Some people (a lot of vets apparently) base Prozinc dosage on the Preshot numbers, and don't emphasize the importance of the nadir numbers. But without those, it's impossible to tell if a dose is too high, too low, or just right.

Do you have any numbers that Sammy's BG was from the vet visits? Just wondering about what led to the determination to shave a unit off his dose after he got tested there.

Carl
 
gizmos59 said:
To Sienne & Gabby:
I sent you a reply but I don't think it went through.
Click to expand...

Don't worry. The message was sent :smile: It sits in your Outbox until it has been read by the recipient.


didn't know they made an automatic feeder for wet food. I would love to see how it works. You would think it would get clogged up.
Click to expand...

I think you're thinking of an auto dry feeder, one that has a big jar that holds dry food and sits over a bowl. A programmable timed feeder is different. It has a compartment that you fill with food and a lid that covers the compartment. You program the time you want and at that time the lid will pop open (or rotate) to allow the cat access to the food. Here is one popular programmable timed feeder people here use: http://www.petsafe.net/products/feeders-and-waterers/feeding-systems/5-meal-timed-pet-feeder
 
gizmos59 said:
To Sienne & Gabby:
I sent you a reply but I don't think it went through.
I didn't know they made an automatic feeder for wet food. I would love to see how it works. You would think it would get clogged up. But then, if they can put a man on the moon...
Their eating habits are a little different. Sammy likes to wolf down alot of his wet food, then walk away for a little while, then go back & finish it off, along with any his brother may have left behind.
Gizmo, on the other hand, will eat most of his, the walk away, period. He's done.
But, they both love to nibble their kibble throughout the day. I hate having to take it away from them.
What to do?

Thanks,
Meghan, Sammy, & Gizmo
Click to expand...

I also work 12 hours during the day, but feeding 4+ times a day is still doable! I freeze portions of food and put it in an auto feeder. Frozen, the food will stay fresh for up to 12 hours.

With two cats, you can either get two feeders and set them to go off at the same time (that's what I did with my cats), or one of the feeders with double compartments. This is the feeder I have (I have two, one for each cat). Feed each cat every meal in different spots, and then when you put down the feeders, put them each in their "spot." Continue to feed small enough portions that you know your picky cat will eat most of in one sitting. By the time your gobbler makes it over to steal the other cat's food, he'll be almost done.

Dry food causes problems with regulation and pretty much eliminates the possibility of remission (84% of cats go into remission when on a canned diet, a long acting insulin like Lantus or Levemir, and dose adjustments via home testing, where the number of cats that go into remission eating high carb dry food is practically zero. Plus, dry food causes all sorts of other problems, like Urinary tract disease and Kidney disease. Ditching the dry was the best thing I ever did for my cats.

Most average sized male cats need about 2-3 cans of FF a day (each). To give you an idea, Bandit is 12 lbs (his ideal weight), and when I fed him FF he got 2 cans a day. However, if your diabetic is not well regulated (which you would not know unless you're home testing), then you may want to feed him extra--unregulated cats need extra food because the cat cant break down utilizing all of the nutrients in its food.

As others have mentioned, make sure you're home testing and monitoring him as you do the diet change--most cats on a low carb canned diet do not need much more than 1u of insulin. If his insulin need drops from the diet change and you don't lower the dose, it could cause a dangerous hypoglycemic incident.
 
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