? Switching from ProZinc to Lantus

[chasenlibby]

I have a 10 year old female kitty named Libby who was diagnosed with diabetes in 2013. We used ProZinc when she was first diagnosed resulting in remission after 2 months. Then in 2015 she developed symptoms again. We put her back on ProZinc and again she went into remission after one month. Now in 2017 it reared its head again but this time we are unable to get it under control after 3 months. We keep a daily spreadsheet and test twice a day before each meal - (canned low carb food) we've also done a curve twice. Vet wants to switch insulin to Lantus hoping for better results. All the tests she's done before making the decision have good results - no pancreatitis, no ketones in the urine, etc. So she's thinking it is insulin resistance. Anybody out there have any similar circumstances that can shed some light on what to expect with the change?

 

[Wendy&Neko]

We've had a few kitties here who've made the switch from Prozinc to Lantus. @Bobbie And Bubba @Carol & Murphy come to mind.

Do you have a spreadsheet that we can view? It's easier for us to talk in terms of numbers. Here are the instructions to make and post the spreadsheet that most of us use.

My kitty had a couple of conditions that caused insulin resistance. There are several secondary conditions that can cause resistance. And glucose toxicity can also make it harder to get to good numbers. What dose of ProZinc is Libby on?

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Hey there! We switched from ProZinc to Lantas after 7 months and was so glad we did. Lantas has a protocol that I like as I need to be instructed. I was so glad that we made the switch as I do better with instructions to follow.

You will need to test more than just pre shots. With Lantus, you need to know how low the insulin is taking Libby.

With Lantus we base the dose on the nadir with consideration to the preshot whereas ProZinc is the opposite. So, you'll have to put away your ProZinc brain but , that said, we will help you along the way.

And like Wendy had asked, please tell us the dose of ProZinc Libby is on. That will help us to guide you with a Lantus dose.

 

[chasenlibby]

We've had a few kitties here who've made the switch from Prozinc to Lantus. @Bobbie And Bubba @Carol & Murphy come to mind.

Do you have a spreadsheet that we can view? It's easier for us to talk in terms of numbers. Here are the instructions to make and post the spreadsheet that most of us use.

My kitty had a couple of conditions that caused insulin resistance. There are several secondary conditions that can cause resistance. And glucose toxicity can also make it harder to get to good numbers. What dose of ProZinc is Libby on?

Hi and thanks for responding. I have an Excel spreadsheet that goes all the way back to 2013 when she was first diagnosed. I share two weeks worth of numbers with my vet and we touch base every other Friday when Libby needs insulin. My vet is awesome! I've attached a pdf of the last one I sent to my vet. I appreciate the feedback.

Hey there! We switched from ProZinc to Lantas after 7 months and was so glad we did. Lantas has a protocol that I like as I need to be instructed. I was so glad that we made the switch as I do better with instructions to follow.

You will need to test more than just pre shots. With Lantus, you need to know how low the insulin is taking Libby.

With Lantus we base the dose on the nadir with consideration to the preshot whereas ProZinc is the opposite. So, you'll have to put away your ProZinc brain but , that said, we will help you along the way.

And like Wendy had asked, please tell us the dose of ProZinc Libby is on. That will help us to guide you with a Lantus dose.

We started Libby on the Lantus this morning at 6 am - her usual time. Her number was 352. Vet said to give her two units. On the ProZinc she was up to 6.5 units with little to no results. I attached the spreadsheet I keep to this thread. Our plan is to do a curve to see how Libby reacts to Lantus. My usual testing was before meals so I knew how much to administer in case she dropped too low. What are the differences in testing with Lantus vs. ProZinc? Thanks for your help. I just want to get this little girl back to her old self!

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

It will be best if you can get another test in around +3 which is the usual onset of Lantus. And then try to get another test in around nadir so you can see how low the Lantus takes her . Just testing at Pre shot times are not going to give you the information that you will need to decide how to adjust the dose. If she drops lower than 68 on an AT meter, she would earn a reduction and without getting a test in mid cycle you could miss that and she could go low and bounce and then you are under the impression that she is still too high and keep raising the dose maybe needlessly. And the same goes for the other way, without those test you might hold a dose to long.

At the beginning of the Lanus Forum are stickies that give a lot of info about how Lantus works and the two different methods of using it, Tight Regulation (TR) protocol or the method called Start Low Go Slow. (SLGS) Read over them when you get a chance and see which method best suits you and your life style.

Can you start using our spread sheet so that we know how the insulin is working in what hour ? Since we are from a over the word here at this forum, the SS speaks to us a in a universal way which helps us help you. Wendy gave you the link above and if you need help getting it set up just yell and someone will help you.

Here's to good result with the Lantus and keep asking questions. We are will help you all we can.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

My usual testing was before meals so I knew how much to administer in case she dropped too low. What are the differences in testing with Lantus vs. ProZinc?

On Lantus we test, feed and shoot insulin all within 10-15 minutes, so that part will be the same But we don't decide what dose to give based on the preshot number, but rather the how low the dose takes the cat. That means you'll start with a given dose and stick with it for at least 5-7 days, unless she goes too low and earns a reduced dose. Getting mid cycle tests are key as that's how we decide what to do about a dose.

It will be very important to get tests somewhere in the middle of the cycle, between shots. We figure out how to dose a cat based on how low the dose takes the cat, and that is typically somewhere between 4 to 7 hours after the shot, though some cats mix it up a bit. Both Bobbie's cat and mine liked to do the low (or nadir) towards the end of the cycle. ECID - each cat is different. Getting night time tests are also important, as many cats go lower at night. If you can get a test just before you go to bed, that will help fill in the picture.

I don't see any tests between shots on the spreadsheet snapshot you attached. It also seems that the higher the dose, the higher the numbers. It is possible she was on too high a dose.

Good luck with the Lantus dose at 2 units. Since Lantus is a depot insulin, it will take a few days for the depot to build and the numbers will get better over that time. Since the Lantus dose is quite a bit lower than the Prozinc dose, it'd be wise to test for urinary ketones.