? Switching from Dry to Wet - right amount so not hungry or overfeed

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Suzanne873

Suzanne873

Member Since 2015
My 13 old cat, Campy, was diagnosed with diabeties about a week ago. I came home with Hills dry and wet MD both of which I have now learned are poor quality and could do more harm if I continue to let her eat dry food. I have switched to low carb/high protein canned food in the last 2 days and she goes for her first glucose cycle tomorrow. My question may seem like a simple one and appreciate any help in figuring out how much to feed her as I switch my dry food lover over to all canned. She is a 10 lb cat who used to get feed 3x a day (no free food) total dry food was 1/4 cup split up 2x and about 1 oz of wet at 9 pm. Now she is now being feed 2x 7am/7pm - vet recommended.
Do you agree with the canned feeding guidlines of an an ounce per lb (Campy is a 10 lb cat = 10 oz wet) becuase it seems like a lot? She is ravinous right now and that should have been one clue to her condition but sadly it wan't. I will be looking for a new vet but in the meantime I hope to rely on this forum to help me thru the initial stages of human and cat adjustments. Thanks to all who respond.
 
The food guidelines are usually pretty far off

The "general" guideline is [13.5 x ideal weight in pounds] + 70 calories per day but that's just a starting point. What's more important is to weigh Campy once a week and if she needs to gain weight, add more food and if she needs to lose, give her less.

If 10lbs is her "ideal" weight, that's 205 calories per day. Most foods can be found on This Food Chart and the amount of calories per can is over to the right.
 
If this is any help to you, my cat holds steady @ 11 lbs (she's got a large skeletal frame, btw) on 7.00 oz/day Fancy Feast Classics turkey w/giblets.

She was on 2 meals/day throughout her treatment until we got to micro-dosing as needed; then I went to 4 mini-meals/day. But now I'm transitioning her back to 2 meals/day to see what that does for her. (As she's been on the cusp of remission for a while now w/the mini-meals, am hoping that the change back to 2 meals/day might help get her there). Anyway, I hope the amount my cat's getting at her weight might help you determine what you'll need for Campy. :)

Might want to take a look at this to help you assess her: body condition chart
 
Suzanne873 said:
Do you agree with the canned feeding guidlines of an an ounce per lb (Campy is a 10 lb cat = 10 oz wet) becuase it seems like a lot? She is ravinous right now and that should have been one clue to her condition but sadly it wan't. I will be looking for a new vet but in the meantime I hope to rely on this forum to help me thru the initial stages of human and cat adjustments. Thanks to all who respond.
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Actually, Suzanne, that does sound like a lot of food ... And what Chris posted above is right - the "food guidelines" on the side of a can aren't the best thing to go by, especially with a diabetic. One thing you should also consider is your cat's activity level. (My cat only plays hard for maybe 10 min./day, the rest of the time she's a couch-potato.)

Campy will be ravenous until her blood glucose is well-regulated, so it's pretty normal for a cat to act hungry all the time at the start of treatment. That will change in time.

Are you testing her blood glucose (BG) at home yet? (Has your vet talked with you about that?) As is really important for you to know your kitty's BG# before you give a shot of insulin to avoid hypoglycemia. I noticed you wrote above, "and she goes for her first glucose cycle tomorrow." Regardless of whether your vet wants you to bring Campy in to let him/her do a fructosamine test or full-cycle BG testing, you still need to be getting a pre-shot BG number before every insulin injection.

Another tip: Regular at-home BG monitoring is not only important for safety of your kitty, but it also helps you treat your cat's diabetes more effectively. (And it is more cost-effective than taking your cat in to have this done at the vet's office. And some cats stress out when at the vet's; this can artificially spike BG readings considerably!)

Our members set up a spreadsheet and plug the daily results of their home testing & insulin dose, etc. into that chart - it's a wonderful tool! This data helps us to help our members whenever there's a question regarding treatment.
 
I stick to what I was doing when CJ was on insulin: several mini meals a day. It has kept her weight and BG at a good number.
 
I'm a firm believer in feeding mini-meals instead of 2 big meals per day. The best chance our kitties have of remission requires that the pancreas rests so it can hopefully resume production of natural insulin.

By feeding huge amounts twice a day, you're asking the pancreas to work harder to be able to pump out enough insulin to deal with those big meals...with smaller meals broken up over the day more, the pancreas doesn't have to go into "Full gear" to try to deal with the food since there's a smaller amount to deal with.
 
Chris & China said:
I'm a firm believer in feeding mini-meals instead of 2 big meals per day. The best chance our kitties have of remission requires that the pancreas rests so it can hopefully resume production of natural insulin.

By feeding huge amounts twice a day, you're asking the pancreas to work harder to be able to pump out enough insulin to deal with those big meals...with smaller meals broken up over the day more, the pancreas doesn't have to go into "Full gear" to try to deal with the food since there's a smaller amount to deal with.
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@Chris & China - Well, I don't know, Chris ... I think it depends on the individual cat, including consideration of whether or not that cat has additional health problems at/after diagnosis. Either feeding method can work. In my own cat's case, she did great on 2 meals/day on Lantus & TR, and was in full remission within 8 wks of starting insulin. Some cats do better with mini-meals, and some don't.

In my own situation with Bat-Bat, I've come to believe that the way I'd fed her for years, free-fed/multiple meals of primarily high-carb kibble (like so many of us have, as most vets NEVER talk about diet until something like diabetes appears) was a primary factor in her acquiring a "lazy" pancreas.
So for us, the "gorge/fast"-type effect of 2 larger meals per day (even this time around, on ProZinc) worked quite well --- for her. But again - Bat-Bat had no additional health problems (pancreatitis, CDK, cancer, etc.), so perhaps her pancreas didn't require as much "gentle" handling as is provided by mini-meals.

So, as we all say 'round here: Every cat is different. What works best for one may not work best for another. It's up to each of us to weigh the pros and cons of either feeding method in order to figure out what works best for our own diabetic cat's individual metabolism.
 
One thing I forgot to add, though, for anyone considering the pros & cons of either method: I'm able to be around to monitor my cat's BG levels at all times; but for those who must be outside the home for many hours of a cycle, mini-meals (using a timed feeder) may help prevent a hypo event.
 
My Bojangles is around 11.5 pounds. I'm glad to read this as the can's feeding instructions would indicate she should eat 1 can for every 3lbs a day. That would mean 3-4 cans per day. She eats 1-1.5 cans. We're working on transitioning off from dry, but she's not eating much dry.

Does anyone have thoughts on bonito flakes or other treats - safe low-carb treats - for those days when she turns her nose up at the food? One day she'll gobble up a certain flavor - the next time she won't touch it. I can only throw out so much food in attempting to get her to eat. On some levels I know she'll eat when she gets hungry, but when she needs to eat to get her insulin, it can be a struggle.
 
@Bojangles' Mom - Could you start a new thread of your own here on the forum, titled something like "Your Thoughts on Safe Treats for when Cat Won't Eat?" --- or something to that effect? That way more eyes will see your question & you'll likely get lots of responses. Thanks! :bighug:

P.S. Sorry that I don't know anything about safe treats; my cat is a chow-hound & would eat my kitchen table if I let her.:rolleyes:
 
Robin&BB said:
@Bojangles' Mom : Your Bobo is sooo beautiful!!!
Love that avatar photo!:cat:
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Thank you, so is your Bat-Bat! Bobo's adopted sister looks a lot like Bat-Bat. We adopted Waimea into the family 1.5 years ago. She was 11 so considered a senior and blind (due to eye issues they literally had to remove her eyes) and being a black cat too, she had three strikes against her for being adopted. She was at the Humane Society for at least 1.5-2 years and I was the first to ask about her. I'm a sucker, so she came home with me. She does have her own room separate from Bobo, but she loves it and is happy having her own living space.
 
Chris & China said:
The food guidelines are usually pretty far off

The "general" guideline is [13.5 x ideal weight in pounds] + 70 calories per day but that's just a starting point. What's more important is to weigh Campy once a week and if she needs to gain weight, add more food and if she needs to lose, give her less.

If 10lbs is her "ideal" weight, that's 205 calories per day. Most foods can be found on This Food Chart and the amount of calories per can is over to the right.
Click to expand...
Suzanne873 said:
My 13 old cat, Campy, was diagnosed with diabeties about a week ago. I came home with Hills dry and wet MD both of which I have now learned are poor quality and could do more harm if I continue to let her eat dry food. I have switched to low carb/high protein canned food in the last 2 days and she goes for her first glucose cycle tomorrow. My question may seem like a simple one and appreciate any help in figuring out how much to feed her as I switch my dry food lover over to all canned. She is a 10 lb cat who used to get feed 3x a day (no free food) total dry food was 1/4 cup split up 2x and about 1 oz of wet at 9 pm. Now she is now being feed 2x 7am/7pm - vet recommended.
Do you agree with the canned feeding guidlines of an an ounce per lb (Campy is a 10 lb cat = 10 oz wet) becuase it seems like a lot? She is ravinous right now and that should have been one clue to her condition but sadly it wan't. I will be looking for a new vet but in the meantime I hope to rely on this forum to help me thru the initial stages of human and cat adjustments. Thanks to all who respond.
Click to expand...

I have not been on this site for three years. Our little Attie Mae was a diabetic for 12 of her 14 years. We lost her three years ago. Just last year we got another kitty (Willie was 8 weeks when we "rescured " him). I just want to make a comment about feeding a diabetic cat. We have talked to three vets regarding this. We want to do all we can to make sure Willie does not become insulin dependent diabetic like our little Attie was. All three vets have told us to use (wet food) Fancy Feast almost exclusively. This is just the opposite of how we fed Attie Mae, per our vet's instructions at that time. Gave her dry food that vets recommended. It seems that the dry food has many carbohydrates that can lead to cat being overweight, possibly becoming diabetic. So, we have changed Willie to 1 1/2 cans of Fancy Feast a day (given half in morning and half at night). Willie weighs 12.8 lbs. I give him 1/8 cup dry Purina One Indoor cat each day. In case he needs to graze. And he does. This was all new to us and I just wanted to share with those on this site. thank you, Melinda Joyner
 
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@mbjoyner1 - Thanks for sharing your experience, Melinda! Yes, seems that as time goes by, more & more vets (but not all, unfortunately) realize that feeding high-carb kibble to cats is a recipe for disaster. Am so happy that you're feeding Willie low-carb canned - good job!!!:bighug:
 
Just returned from seeing the vet's office to get her first glucose curve (down from 400 to 241) and brought up that I don't want to feed her dry food now that she is diabetic. The vet tech who was taking the blood said that I ABSOLUTELY should be feeding her dry and to leave food out so she has food in her system to keep her more balanced. It is a long stretch between feedings (7am/7pm) but want your opinion if anybody feeds any wet in the middle. Campy is also vomiting today but since she didn't vomit before her morning injection I didn't receive any further instructions or how to help her. I have just started her on low carb/high protein and isnt' used to all wet diet yet so she might be adjusting but wanted to check with this audience.
 
Suzanne873 said:
Just returned from seeing the vet's office to get her first glucose curve (down from 400 to 241) and brought up that I don't want to feed her dry food now that she is diabetic. The vet tech who was taking the blood said that I ABSOLUTELY should be feeding her dry and to leave food out so she has food in her system to keep her more balanced.
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Oh, my ... I think it's time you start interviewed new vet prospects, as that vet tech is DEAD WRONG about the dry food. The Hill's dry w/d (I'm assuming that's the dry formula they gave you?) is a whopping 25% carbs; the Hill's m/d canned is 14% carbs - both are beyond the recommended carb content for diabetic cats - the dry kibble especially so! I'm sorry to have to say it, but the people at your vet's office are - in a nutshell - clueless about treating a cat effectively for diabetes!!!
(Forgive me, but I am so angry :mad: on your behalf right now that I could just go into my kitchen and, and ... break a plate!)

Please follow the great guidelines that are available here on the FDMB site regarding home monitoring, best choices for food, etc., get a spreadsheet up & running --- and find a veterinary office where the docs & staff are better educated about feline diabetes. I know you can do this - and we're all here to help!:bighug: - Robin
 
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As you're transitioning your kitty over to lower-carb canned foods (and if you must feed any kibble, Young Again or EVO are much better low-carb choices), you'll need to do that gradually --- and monitor blood glucose at home because the low-carb food alone can drop her numbers significantly. resulting in the need for a reduction of insulin dose.
 
Can you provide more details regarding Campy's vomiting? Was this at the vet's office, in the car, or what? Is it still happening? (Tummy upsets can occur if you try to switch foods too quickly/ all at once.)
 
Suzanne873 said:
Just returned from seeing the vet's office to get her first glucose curve (down from 400 to 241) and brought up that I don't want to feed her dry food now that she is diabetic. The vet tech who was taking the blood said that I ABSOLUTELY should be feeding her dry and to leave food out so she has food in her system to keep her more balanced. It is a long stretch between feedings (7am/7pm) but want your opinion if anybody feeds any wet in the middle. Campy is also vomiting today but since she didn't vomit before her morning injection I didn't receive any further instructions or how to help her. I have just started her on low carb/high protein and isnt' used to all wet diet yet so she might be adjusting but wanted to check with this audience.
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Why is she vomiting? Does she have other medical issues aside from the diabetes?

See this handy cat feeding chart. You want to aim for wet/canned food under 10%: http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

If your kitty is a dry kibble addict, see the handy guide in the right hand corner for Transitioning Dry Food Addicts to Canned Food: http://catinfo.org/
When I was weaning CJ off kibble, I sprinkled Forti Flora in her canned food. The guide discusses the use of Forti Flora.

A lot of vets and techs, unfortunately, are not familiar with diets, home testing and managing feline diabetes. That is why we have FDMB. You are in good hands here.

Next we need to get you to test Campy's glucose and do curves at home. No need to waste time and money at the vet. Plus vet glucose values tend to be higher than at home, especially with a stressed cats. Vet values can be 100 points or higher.
 
@Suzanne873 See the discussions above about how often to feed. There are some good tips. It's going to depend on your cat. Timed feeders are very handy for when you're not home.
 
Robin&BB said:
One thing I forgot to add, though, for anyone considering the pros & cons of either method: I'm able to be around to monitor my cat's BG levels at all times; but for those who must be outside the home for many hours of a cycle, mini-meals (using a timed feeder) may help prevent a hypo event.
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Feeding styles are very controversial. I know that I started seeing Bubba's numbers come down when I went back to 2 meals a day. I too am home all day to test and make sure he is safe. I remember reading a long time ago that cats should not "free style eat" (even though that is what I use to let them do) because they are not grazers like herbivores such as cows. They eat or should eat a high protein diet (carnivores)that sustains them for longer periods of time. Sigh.....
 
I will be making a donation to this site becuase you all are just making me cry because you care so much to respond so quickly. Probably poor judgement on my part to switch to wet food too quickly having been a dry foodie for her whole life. Will read up on the links you provided. In regards to the vomit, I give her 1 unit of lantus at 7 am and she vomited up a small amount of brown liquid (color of her wet food) at 11:30 and found another larger vomit patch in another room but don't know the timing.

I am already in the process of investigating new vets.
 
Suzanne873 said:
I will be making a donation to this site becuase you all are just making me cry because you care so much to respond so quickly. Probably poor judgement on my part to switch to wet food too quickly having been a dry foodie for her whole life. Will read up on the links you provided. In regards to the vomit, I give her 1 unit of lantus at 7 am and she vomited up a small amount of brown liquid (color of her wet food) at 11:30 and found another larger vomit patch in another room but don't know the timing.

I am already in the process of investigating new vets.
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I know, when I first joined FDMB, I cried every time someone answered me promptly and helped me. This is an awesome group of people!
 
Suzanne873 said:
I will be making a donation to this site becuase you all are just making me cry because you care so much to respond so quickly. Probably poor judgement on my part to switch to wet food too quickly having been a dry foodie for her whole life. Will read up on the links you provided. In regards to the vomit, I give her 1 unit of lantus at 7 am and she vomited up a small amount of brown liquid (color of her wet food) at 11:30 and found another larger vomit patch in another room but don't know the timing.

I am already in the process of investigating new vets.
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Aww --- you're sweet, Suzanne! Please don't beat yourself up (re: your "poor judgment" remark), as diabetes is steep learning curve for anybody; even those of us who have been dealing with it for a long time always learn something new here!
Am so happy you'll be finding a new vet - you go, girl!!!:cool: I can tell how much you love Campy!:cat:
 
Suzanne873 said:
I will be making a donation to this site becuase you all are just making me cry because you care so much to respond so quickly. Probably poor judgement on my part to switch to wet food too quickly having been a dry foodie for her whole life. Will read up on the links you provided. In regards to the vomit, I give her 1 unit of lantus at 7 am and she vomited up a small amount of brown liquid (color of her wet food) at 11:30 and found another larger vomit patch in another room but don't know the timing.

I am already in the process of investigating new vets.
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I am glad you're looking for a new vet for Campy. The vomiting concerns me. Unflavored pedialyte administered by syringe can help with mild dehydration from vomiting. But if the vomiting continues, it needs to be addressed promptly by the vet.

Don't blame yourself one bit for feeding dry food. We have all been in your shoes. If we all knew dry food was bad for our cats, we wouldn't have fed it in the first place!

My suggestion would be to start a new thread in the Main Forum (where you are now) or in the Welcome to the Group forum and introduce yourself and Campy. Let people know about Campy's vomiting issues as we have a lot of members with experience. We'll then guide you towards home testing and other goodies.
 
Check my signature link for some Vet Interview topics to help rule in/out candidate vets.
 
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