Switching Fluffy to a more diabetic (and possibly hyperthyroid) friendly diet?

[Natalie & Fluffy]

Hi guys! Fluffy about half a year ago was diagnosed with diabetes. He's a sweet 16, and currently he's on 2 units of Novolin N twice a day (7 a.m & 7 p.m.). He eats his meals (1/2 a cup, twice a day, with the insulin doses) Purina ONE Indoor Advantage dry food and has been for all his adult life.

He was doing well until I noticed he was eating voraciously and drinking more, and started acting pretty restless and howling a lot, constantly running around and acting a playful but also needy and wanting to eat, eat, eat! It pains me to hear him meow for more food when I know I have to stick on a strict schedule for his insulin doses and feeding times! There have been times I noticed that he would also suddenly act reserved and it was like I could see his pulse beating through his fur, which frightened me, but that's only happened a couple of times. Yesterday I took him to the vet to do a fructosamine (? correct me if I'm wrong about the type of test) but turns out his levels were well regulated the past two weeks; his BG levels were actually between normal and just a little bit low. I was thankful his diabetes was generally well controlled, but they also did a blood test and my vet noticed his thyroid levels were in the normal to grey area range. (Ack!) He said it's too early to make a diagnosis and he wants to do another blood test in three months. Hmm.

Good thing is, I'll be starting to do some hometesting for his BG levels; because now I can't figure out his BG through his behavior anymore since he might be developing hyperthyroidism I'll also need to do this because I want to keep a close eye on his levels as I very slowly transition him to food that is healthy for diabetics, but is there something that will stave off developing hyperthyroidism? (Is there even such a thing? Can it be preventable through a specific diet? (Low in iodine perhaps? I don't know...) And why do cat food companies sell such crap high in carbs? I want to do all I can to prevent, if possible, developing hyperthyroidism, and perhaps lower his insulin needs if that's causing it...

Anyways, thanks guys <3 You've helped me and Fluffy so much throughout this process!

 

[Sharon14]

Hi Natalie, haven't heard from you in a long time. Glad Fluffy is doing better. I don't know anything about hyperthyroidism, so I can't help you there, but I'm glad you are going to start testing Fluffy and changing his food to low carb. Welcome back and good luck!

 

[BJM]

Treatment for moderate level hypothyroidism may be done orally or using a compounded product rubbed in the ear. I had a civvie on methimazole for years, before the dose was high enough to cause adverse reaction, then did the radioactive I-131 treatment which is pricey. I would dissolve her med into a little bit of canned food and she would scarf it right up. She lived to age 18ish (didn't know her birth date).

If there is an obvious goiter, or enlargement of the thyroid gland, partial surgical removal could reduce symptoms somewhat, however it will likely grow back, plus it is very delicate surgery.

I wouldn't do the reduced iodine food for cats; it wasn't difficult to medicate my girl.

 

[Lydia--(Rosie & Basil) GA]

I get my kitty's hyperthyroid meds from Drs Foster and Smith. It costs a little more but it is a coated pill that hides nicely in a bit of cheese and Rosie considers it a treat.

 

[billysmom (GA)]

Fish containing foods are high in iodine in general because they use a lot of fish heads. My guy popped a high test when I was giving him a lot of fish oil. I stopped that and removed fish containing food from his diet and his tests settled back to the normal range. I'm not sure that's what caused it. It might be coincidence or a bad test.

 

[Anitafrnhamer]

There really is no way to "prevent" HyperT. Just run your thyroid panels periodically and hope for the best.

 

[Natalie & Fluffy]

Hi Natalie, haven't heard from you in a long time. Glad Fluffy is doing better. I don't know anything about hyperthyroidism, so I can't help you there, but I'm glad you are going to start testing Fluffy and changing his food to low carb. Welcome back and good luck!

Hi Sharon! Thank you so much!

Treatment for moderate level hypothyroidism may be done orally or using a compounded product rubbed in the ear. I had a civvie on methimazole for years, before the dose was high enough to cause adverse reaction, then did the radioactive I-131 treatment which is pricey. I would dissolve her med into a little bit of canned food and she would scarf it right up. She lived to age 18ish (didn't know her birth date).

If there is an obvious goiter, or enlargement of the thyroid gland, partial surgical removal could reduce symptoms somewhat, however it will likely grow back, plus it is very delicate surgery.

I wouldn't do the reduced iodine food for cats; it wasn't difficult to medicate my girl.

Wow, your civvie lived such a long life! Yeah, it's obviously too early for me to find out anything conclusive, so I guess I'll just have to wait at sit back. My mom has hyperthyroidism too and she also takes methimazole-- just a bit worried if it's been causing heart damage to my poor kitty

I get my kitty's hyperthyroid meds from Drs Foster and Smith. It costs a little more but it is a coated pill that hides nicely in a bit of cheese and Rosie considers it a treat.

Ahh okay, thank you! I'll have to remember that if Fluffy gets diagnosed. Just curious, how much is Rosie's dose?

Fish containing foods are high in iodine in general because they use a lot of fish heads. My guy popped a high test when I was giving him a lot of fish oil. I stopped that and removed fish containing food from his diet and his tests settled back to the normal range. I'm not sure that's what caused it. It might be coincidence or a bad test.

Ah okay good to hear! Fluffy doesn't have any fish in his diet, but I don't even know if there may be some iodine in his food... the nutritional values are so hidden argh!

There really is no way to "prevent" HyperT. Just run your thyroid panels periodically and hope for the best.

Haha I'm so worried! How periodically do you think I should ask the vet to do them? I will be gone end of December to early January and he'll be staying with a special vet boarding hospital, but my original vet says he wants to wait 3 months to do another blood test... If he's continuing to mew a lot and act restless, even though his BG levels remain normal, do you think I should pressure my vet to do another blood test? I'm just worried that maybe they won't be able to catch his thyroid levels if they're acting up. I'll probably just have to do some regular glucose curves at home and wait and see how he acts from there :O

Thanks guys!

 

[BJM]

With a senior kitty, you might check bloodwork every 6-9 months. If it is due to thyroid overgrowth/tumor, it could progress rapidy and that would catch it.

Also monitor water consumption, dehydration, hunger, weight, and heart rate at rest (have your vet show you how or take Red Cross Pet First Aid). Tracking those in a spreadsheet over time will let you see if significant changes happen.

 

[Anitafrnhamer]

A couple of "symptoms" I noticed with Squeaker aside from daily vomiting and insatiable appetite, were wild bursts of energy (he would run up and down the hall for 45 minutes) and he was highly irritable. Just a couple of things you might watch for. Squeaker only tested at 51 (range 10-50) so the symptoms can hit hard and fast in some cats.

 

[Natalie & Fluffy]

Yesterday I received an Alphatrack Glucometer kit with lancets and test strips from my vet for free *0* We did a test on the spot and found out his levels were 55, pretty low which could be explaining his restlessness and meowing. I don't know what about his water consumption, because usually isn't that a sign of high BG? I guess I'll just have to wait and see how it goes until I can get his levels higher. So yesterday the whole day I free fed him and reduced his unit to 1 unit, twice a day as directed by vet. This morning before feeding and his dose, I was successfully able to do my first BG test (yay!) and got a pretty good number I think (105)! I might do another one when his insulin peaks 4-6 hrs? And then possibly another one at around 7:00 before I feed him. However, his behavior as took a complete change, he's sleeping restfully and not meowing needily, and he's acting calm!

With a senior kitty, you might check bloodwork every 6-9 months. If it is due to thyroid overgrowth/tumor, it could progress rapidy and that would catch it.

Also monitor water consumption, dehydration, hunger, weight, and heart rate at rest (have your vet show you how or take Red Cross Pet First Aid). Tracking those in a spreadsheet over time will let you see if significant changes happen.

Thank you BJM! I'll definitely be on the lookout when I have better control over his BG.

A couple of "symptoms" I noticed with Squeaker aside from daily vomiting and insatiable appetite, were wild bursts of energy (he would run up and down the hall for 45 minutes) and he was highly irritable. Just a couple of things you might watch for. Squeaker only tested at 51 (range 10-50) so the symptoms can hit hard and fast in some cats.

Ah poor Squeaker! That's what I'll keep an eye out for sure. It took my mom three blood tests to confirm she had hyperthyroidism, hopefully if that's the case, it won't happen to Fluffs.

 

[Sharon14]

Good morning Natalie. 105 is a good number, but pretty low to shoot. Novolin is a fast acting insulin isn't it? Did you shoot 2 units?

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Hey Natalie, I hope you are around to get these messages as 105 is a very good number and did not warrant any insulin. Novolin is a fast acting insulin with a rapid onset. You will need to test ASAP to make sure Fluffy did not drop too low and be prepared to steer him up with some HC food and/or corn syrup if necessary. Please respond back as soon as you get this.

 

[Olive & Paula]

Natalie, my Smokey is very restless (howls, head down, moping, pacing, confused) when very high >450 and if <65 he is pushing food bowls around room, trying to eat cardboard his bowl is on and crying. When he starts down out of the high reds he is very tired as if he is exhausted which I think he is because of the behavior.

I had a hyperthyroid civvie who howled relentlessly and hopped (3 legs) around continuously. It took a few days for meds to work. She got custom flavored liquid meds because she was difficult to pill. She was tested 6 weeks after initial dose then every 6 months. If her behavior changed she was tested to check levels and dose adjustment.

Hope Fluffy starts to feel better soon.

 

[Natalie & Fluffy]

Good morning Natalie. 105 is a good number, but pretty low to shoot. Novolin is a fast acting insulin isn't it? Did you shoot 2 units?

Good morning! Darn o.o No, my vet said to reduce it to 1 unit as of two days ago. I tried to do another BG this morning before feeding but I couldn't get enough blood same again too! I'm going to keep trying tonight before he eats his meal. Novolin N is a bit harsher. I want to see if I can someday switch to Levemir or Lantus but it's way too expensive and my parents won't hear any of it. (The novolin costs only 25$ a bottle).

Hey Natalie, I hope you are around to get these messages as 105 is a very good number and did not warrant any insulin. Novolin is a fast acting insulin with a rapid onset. You will need to test ASAP to make sure Fluffy did not drop too low and be prepared to steer him up with some HC food and/or corn syrup if necessary. Please respond back as soon as you get this.

Hello!! Agh! I gave him insulin that yesterday when his BG was 105... he was basically fine all yesterday, I gave him a midday snack when he seemed a little needy and felt much better than he's ever acted for a long time. Thank you for notifying me! It's been so difficult to hometest. I couldn't this morning and gave up after wasting three tests strips and poking him like 10 times... I just haven't gotten to the point yet where I can successfully do glucose curves and judge whether to shoot or not. It's a work in progress I suppose! Thankfully I do stay at home to keep a close eye on him.

Natalie, my Smokey is very restless (howls, head down, moping, pacing, confused) when very high >450 and if <65 he is pushing food bowls around room, trying to eat cardboard his bowl is on and crying. When he starts down out of the high reds he is very tired as if he is exhausted which I think he is because of the behavior.

I had a hyperthyroid civvie who howled relentlessly and hopped (3 legs) around continuously. It took a few days for meds to work. She got custom flavored liquid meds because she was difficult to pill. She was tested 6 weeks after initial dose then every 6 months. If her behavior changed she was tested to check levels and dose adjustment.

Hope Fluffy starts to feel better soon.

Poor Smokey! I hope he's doing alright too! It's almost like I can't tell what behavior is right or wrong anymore since Fluffy had been sick on and off for awhile :/ But that's good your sweet civvie handled her dose well~ Thank you!

 

[Olive & Paula]

Smokey is fine but feeling blah today. Fluffy will come around once the right dose of meds is reached. You will get the hang of testing. Hang in there.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Good morning! Darn o.o No, my vet said to reduce it to 1 unit as of two days ago. I tried to do another BG this morning before feeding but I couldn't get enough blood same again too! I'm going to keep trying tonight before he eats his meal. Novolin N is a bit harsher. I want to see if I can someday switch to Levemir or Lantus but it's way too expensive and my parents won't hear any of it. (The novolin costs only 25$ a bottle).



Hello!! Agh! I gave him insulin that yesterday when his BG was 105... he was basically fine all yesterday, I gave him a midday snack when he seemed a little needy and felt much better than he's ever acted for a long time. Thank you for notifying me! It's been so difficult to hometest. I couldn't this morning and gave up after wasting three tests strips and poking him like 10 times... I just haven't gotten to the point yet where I can successfully do glucose curves and judge whether to shoot or not. It's a work in progress I suppose! Thankfully I do stay at home to keep a close eye on him


Poor Smokey! I hope he's doing alright too! It's almost like I can't tell what behavior is right or wrong anymore since Fluffy had been sick on and off for awhile :/ But that's good your sweet civvie handled her dose well~ Thank you!

I am so glad that he is okay, I was worried when I read that you shot a 105 AMPS. New diabetic cats are recommended not to shot if their BG is 200 and under as usually enough data hasn't been collected to know how they could respond. Keep practicing the testing and you will catch on. It took most of us a while to get it.

 

[BJM]

Using an Alpha Trak meter, the glucose should remain above 68 mg/dL for safety. Any lower glucose level should be treated with food to bring it up to a safer level.
BCP PZI insulin is fairly low cost up front, and lasts about 12 hours per shot, compared to Humulin or Novolin which tends to last 6-10 hours in most cats.

 

[Natalie & Fluffy]

I am so glad that he is okay, I was worried when I read that you shot a 105 AMPS. New diabetic cats are recommended not to shot if their BG is 200 and under as usually enough data hasn't been collected to know how they could respond. Keep practicing the testing and you will catch on. It took most of us a while to get it.

Thank you so much! Last night I was able to test him at 224 and gave him a shot, hopefully this morning I'll be lucky to test him again! I feed him at 7 a.m, and give him his insulin at 7:30; should testing before the shot at 7:30 give me an accurate BG?

Using an Alpha Trak meter, the glucose should remain above 68 mg/dL for safety. Any lower glucose level should be treated with food to bring it up to a safer level.
BCP PZI insulin is fairly low cost up front, and lasts about 12 hours per shot, compared to Humulin or Novolin which tends to last 6-10 hours in most cats.

Thank you for the information!

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

You always want to test before you shot the insulin to make sure they are safe. So, you test and if the number is a shootable number, anything over 200 , you feed and the shoot. If the number is lower than 200, you can stall without feeding for 20 minutes and then retest. Sometimes the cat's BG will rise anticipating to be fed. If it still isn't at least 200, you can stall again without feeding (the food would bring up the numbers but you want the number to NOT be food influenced) and when you get a safe number you can shoot. Then adjust your next shot 12 hours from that time. Good job getting the test in before the shot! What time zone are you in?

 

[Natalie & Fluffy]

Smokey is fine but feeling blah today. Fluffy will come around once the right dose of meds is reached. You will get the hang of testing. Hang in there.

You too! My anxiety levels before I even was able to test went through the roof. I feel like my mental health is so dependent on my kitty haha. It feels so much better to be able to have a bit of control when you're able to have those numbers. I don't have to be some helpless owner who keeps going back and forth to the vet! Thank you though. Poor Smokey If you need to vent your frustrations, I'm always a listening ear!

You always want to test before you shot the insulin to make sure they are safe. So, you test and if the number is a shootable number, anything over 200 , you feed and the shoot. If the number is lower than 200, you can stall without feeding for 20 minutes and then retest. Sometimes the cat's BG will rise anticipating to be fed. If it still isn't at least 200, you can stall again without feeding (the food would bring up the numbers but you want the number to NOT be food influenced) and when you get a safe number you can shoot. Then adjust your next shot 12 hours from that time. Good job getting the test in before the shot! What time zone are you in?

Ah okay thank you!! So much to keep track of o.o I'm in Eastern Time Zone. I'm going to try and test him right now, wish me luck D;

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Good luck Natalie!! You can do it. Stay calm and determined.

 

[Natalie & Fluffy]

HAHA YESSSS SUCCESS
Got 243! I gave him the unit~ I'll test him again at night. Once I get better I'll do a full glucose curve~ this is like christmas to me XD

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Way to go! Natalie, when you get a chance, can you set up your signature so those who are assisting you will have all your information available at a quick glance. Information should include, kittie's name, date of diagnosis, what insulin you are using, what home meter you are using, what you are feeding kittie, and anything else you'd like to say that can fit into 3 lines. Look at mine under my post.

Also, if we could get you to set up Spread Sheet also. It helps the people who are helping you with dose adjustments. If you have any trouble, just yell and someone will assist you. Our spreadsheet instructions are here

Here is an explanation on how to read the SS. Again click on mine that says Bubba SS to see what it looks like.
On the spreadsheet... It's really not hard!

AMPS is the AM Pre-shot test (always test before shooting to make sure they're high enough to give insulin)...then the U column is for "Units" (how much you gave)

The +1, +2, +3, etc are for how many hours since shooting...so +2 is 2 hours after the AM shot, +9 is 9 hour after, etc.....Since we're all over the world here, saying "he was at 148 at 8pm" doesn't tell us anything...we need to know how long since his last shot

At the end of a 12 hour cycle, it's PMPS time! (PM Pre-shot) and the whole thing starts over.

When you need dosing advice, start a new thread and use the title editing tools to preface with a question mark and have your title say something like "Dosing Advice Needed ASAP" that way you will get the attention that you need.

You are doing a great job!

 

[Natalie & Fluffy]

Way to go! Natalie, when you get a chance, can you set up your signature so those who are assisting you will have all your information available at a quick glance. Information should include, kittie's name, date of diagnosis, what insulin you are using, what home meter you are using, what you are feeding kittie, and anything else you'd like to say that can fit into 3 lines. Look at mine under my post...

<3 Wow! Thank you, I'm so grateful!! I'm learning so much! You and BJM are pros at this! I added the signature and entered in his numbers for the spreadsheet! I can't wait to fill up those empty blanks haha.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

<3 Wow! Thank you, I'm so grateful!! I'm learning so much! You and BJM are pros at this! I added the signature and entered in his numbers for the spreadsheet! I can't wait to fill up those empty blanks haha.

I am still learning too, Natalie and as I do, I pay it forward with what I do know. Keep up the good work!

 

[Natalie & Fluffy]

I am still learning too, Natalie and as I do, I pay it forward with what I do know. Keep up the good work!

So I was finally able to get a few numbers for my chart... do you think it's too early to start adjusting Fluffy's dose? Should I make a new board post for this? His numbers are a bit high and he's been a bit meowy lately. I was thinking about seeing how he would do with 1.25 U to see if he can get back in the 100s.

 

[BJM]

Here is the link to the FDMB Humulin/Novolin guide. You may find that helpful in using it optimally. Most importantly, test, feed, wait a good 30 minutes for the food to get on board, then shoot.

Dose adjustments are made based on the nadir, the lowest glucose post-shot. This frequently happens between +3 to +4 hours after giving Novolin or Humulin.

Also, it usually wears off before 12 hours are up. It this is true for your cat (and Each Cat Is Different - ECID), tests in the +8 to +11 will likely show roughly when that happens.