switched to Lantus, high numbers, new to forum

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I have an 11 year old male, orange, 23 lb cat named Sandman.
He had a front leg taken off a few years ago because of cancer on his shoulder blade.
He was diagnosed with diabetes Aug 31 of 09 and started on Vetsulin. His last dose of Vetsulin was 7.5 units. He now has neuropathy, which is really bad for a 3 legged overweight cat. He was switched to Lantus on May 28th in hope of better results. Attached is his spreadsheet since on the Lantus. His numbers remain high and I have been following the dose increase advice from http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_6_protocol2.htm.
Ginger
 
Hi there


welcome to the FDMB! Sandman sounds like a very cool kitty, love the name!

Could you tell us what diet Sandman is on?
Have you been testing for ketones?

Others will be along to offer feedback. Good to see you are using the Tilly protocol and home testing too!
 
welcome to LL, I'm sure others with more experience will be along to help you and Sandman. I'm just here to say hi, and offer support.
 
Welcome Ginger and Sandman,

Can't wait to hear the story of that name!

What kind of food is he eating? We urge you to feed wet lo carb. It makes a huge difference in the bg levels. What dose did you start with? We have a very active subforum for Lantus users. viewforum.php?f=9 If you haven't been over there, you might go and ask your dosage questions.

For the neruopathy, lots of people use Methyl B12 : viewforum.php?f=9
 
Welcome Ginger!!

Can you describe how Sandman was doing on Vetsulin?

One suggestion... If at all possible, can you get some spot checks in during the PM cycle? Many cats have lower numbers during the evenings and it will help to know whether Sandman's numbers are consistent with this daytime BG levels or if they are lower.

It's also quite possible that he's under dose. If Sandman had better numbers on 7.5u of Vetsulin, his Lantus dose may need to be higher than what you are currently shooting. You may not have reached his best dose yet.
 
Hi Ginger and Sandman! I just stopped in to say "hi". I like both your names. My civvie is named Ginger, too.
I hope to see you posting over on the Lantus forum. You'll get lots of advise and support there. And we're like a family.
Welcome!
KatKisses-1.jpg

That's Ginger on the left getting kisses from J.D. my diabetic.
 
Hi Ginger and Sandman!

Welcome!
As you are now switched over to Lantus, you may want to come on over to the Lantus group - there are plenty of people posting in that ISG who have made the same switch as you and can help you with the differences.

Profile Creation
New to the Group
List of Hypo symptoms
Tight Regulation Protocol
Help with signatures/links/images/avatars
Binky’s Food Lists

OK there are a bunch of links to start you off. :lol:

As you can see, everyone is saying what are you feeding? and other questions get repeated all the time, which makes having a profile a real time saver.
 
Hi Ginger and Sandman
Welcome to the board.
Sandman sounds like a very lucky cat to have you as his Mama.

Max is currently off insulin since April 3. We had(have) the most amazing help from the wonderful people here. Great speadsheet and testing. As Sienne said, try and get some night time ones as well.
 
Sandman eats Science Diet M/D which is for diabetics. He has food down all the time as years back he got into the garbage and ate some plant stems. He wouldn't eat for a week, the vet ended up giving him a valium to stimulate his appetite. Now if he gets hungry and doesn't have food down he gets sick as his stomach is sensitive. He also has a mother, Jessie, and sister Binky who fortunately are able to eat the same food.
As for the Methyl B12 we are on the 3rd bottle of Xobaline 3mg. I don't think it has helped. We tried 2 a day, then 2 am and 2 pm, now we are just at 1 a day as I am on last bottle and he still has neuropathy. I think my best bet is to get his numbers down.
Sandman also gets an amitryptoline pill (pm) and metacam every other day.
As for how he did on the Vetsulin, we would up his dose and he might have ok numbers for a couple days and then go back to being high. We might get a 237 or even 117 and then the next day 293 or 306, etc. With his neuropathy not getting any better we decided to switch.
I have not figured out how to post a photo of him yet.
Thanks for the links!
Ginger
 
Ginger,

I know it is hard to take advice from strangers on the internet, but the diet could be a big part of your problem. Not sure whether you mean Science Diet WD or Purina DM . The Science diet is 18% carbs, the wet is 12% carbs. The first ingredients in the dry is chicken by product meal, corn meal and rice. All grain. The wet is water first, then liver. Purina dry is 18% carbs with poultry by products meal, corn meal and flour. The wet is 12% carbs and like Science diet, water and liver.

We try to feed our sugar cats between 8-10% carbs. It is just like human diabetics; diet plays a big part and the fewer carbs, the better. Check out Janet and Binky's diet page: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html Oliver had been on Science Diet Light for all his life and he continued to gain weight. When he became diabetic, we put him on a lo carb wet diet. We picked Fancy Feast. The ingredients are as good or better as the "prescription" foods and much more reasonable to buy. If you want higher quality, Wellness wet is a good brand. With the change, Oliver's bg levels came down 100 points overnight and he was down to a good, normal weight in 3 months.

Janet and Binky's charts will let you do your own research into foods. Also be sure to read the catinfo.org site.

However, do not change to a wet lo carb diet until you are hometesting. Because it can mean a significant reduction in bg levels, you want to know what his levels are before every shot.
 
As for feeding wet food, that isn't really an option. I have 3 cats who eat the Science Diet MD. Two of them, Sandman included, are very prone to urinary problems, which that food addresses. The third cat has a very sensitive stomach and this is the first food she has done well on. Sandman has stomach problems, because of having ate some plants, and has to have food down all the time. If he gets an empty stomach, he gets sick.
I do appreciate your posts!
 
Hi Ginger,

You've already gotten lots of good advice. I want to throw out one more thing...considering your dosing history (7.5 u Vetsulin and now a fairly high dose of Lantus), you might consider getting a couple of blood-tests - IGF-1 and IAA (see viewtopic.php?f=12&t=375 ). If you had the blood drawn & shipped on Monday, you should have your answers on Friday.

There are quite a few high-dose cats on this board with confirmed reasons for insulin resistance. I personally believe that any cat that shows up on a high dose should be tested for IGF-1 and IAA. If the tests are negative, you may be asked to reduce your current dose and change your food, and work your way up via the protocol you are already following (same one we follow). If the tests are positive, it changes things a bit and you become more aggressive in your dosing.

When I came on board, Boo was at 5 u Lantus. We reduced her back to 1 u...a couple of months later, she was back at 5 u and I had the tests done. Had I done the tests immediately, I could have worked at getting her into safe numbers 2 months earlier, which might have reduced the damage her kidneys have suffered.

PS - Go to www.catinfo.org It has some great information about food, including urinary problems and sensitive stomachs. And, wet food can stay down all day long - it doesn't become dangerous.
 
Dry food suggestion - Innova Evo Cat and Kittin Chicken and Turkey. 8% carbs. They have other flavors as well but I'm not sure what the carbs are on those.

Also, Proctor and Gamble bought the company and say they are not going to change the formula, but everyone is keeping a watchful eye on it.

This and Wellness wet helped my cat go into remission for about six months. I know you said you can't do wet though.
 
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