Support/Wisdom Needed

Status
Not open for further replies.
Rockstah

Rockstah

New Member
Hello group! I`m new here, and happy to have found this forum. Actually, I found this forum over the holidays when I first learned that my black fur baby Raven was diabetic at 14 years. Over the past month I have been silently reading, deciding what course of action to take, and trying to master the art of "Stealth Injections." I've only been trying to give her the injections for about two weeks now, and after tonight I am ready to give up. My once loving cat who couldn't get enough attention now shuns me. She knows the routine, and when it comes to injection time, I swear she tenses up so tightly that I can't tent anywhere on her. After that, she runs and hides from me. I don't know what to do as my main concern when deciding to give the insulin was whether or not I could do it... not if she could, After all, I've been told by every person and vet I've spoken to that "they don't even feel it", which is a giant load of crap. She may not make a sound but it is obviously bothering her. I've tried treats, and an extra set of hands to pet her while I sneak the needle up on her. I've also varied her times so that she doesn't get used to a specific routine, and nothing is working. Now I'm starting to wonder if I'm doing any of this for the right reasons. Is it possible we cling and prolong the life of our beloved pets for our own selfishness and inability to let them go? At this point I would rather hold her and make her feel safe as she slowly slips away from me than to make everyday a small hell for her. Has anyone else gone thru this, and if so, how do I overcome it.... or at least feel better about the decision. Someone please tell me that this passes or gets better or why bother putting them and ourselves thru it at all?
 
Awwwww....poor Raven and how hard this must be for you.

You have arrived here at a time when most are sleeping and I admit, I am off to do the same, but first would you tell us what type of insulin and how much you are giving?
Some kitties have been known to be reactive to different insulins and this could be the case.
Other kitties have become very fractious when they sense their insulin needs have changed. Are you hometesting?

The other initial thought I have is, what size syringes are you using and where are you injecting?

There are certainly things members can offer to make this a little gentler for you both.
Diabetes is certainly no reason to see you friend slip away from you. This board has so many different types of cats and reactions, I certainly hope we can help you so that thought is put away.

Have a look at the faqs meanwhile, and maybe tell us a bit more about you and Raven, how you came to this diagnosis, any other medical issues etc.

Hang in there.....support is here..just a little sleepy at the moment :)

Kimmee
 
Welcome to the Forum
You have found the right place to get the help.
As Sweetgrass said, there should not be a reason why you should give up on treating Raven's diabetes.
I am sorry to hear that you are having problems with Raven and giving insulin.
There will be more experienced people that will come by later on.
I too had problems at the begining and my Max is a gentle cat. He would also take off on me when he knew I was coming with the syringe.
Although I was afraid to link eating and shot together for fear of him not eating, I give him his shot while he eats. I found that he was so distracted eating his food that he stopped paying attention to me.
Please try and give more descriptions as to what tye of insulin you are using and the dose.
As well, do you hometest?

As I said, others will be by with more experience but I wanted to give you a welcome and comfort that many of us have struggles but we can help our sugarcats.
 
I cannot successfully "tent" my cat's scruff to shoot him because his skin is too tight.

On the advice of my vet. I shoot straight into his side, behind the ribs and in front of the "meat" of the leg. The needle goes in at a 90 degree angle to his body. Use short needle--5/16" He isn't even aware I am doing it. Very little "handling." Ennis can be standing or lying down, I just rub my hand along his side, find my spot, put needle in, depress plunger, come away and keep petting.

I've shot other cats this way. Same lack of reaction. Might be worth a try. Maybe try with an empty syringe first.
 
Hi guys,
Thanks for your suggestions and responses. No worries on the timing of it... I had a good cry and some sleep and we start a new day, right? Its just I'm so frustrated and full of guilt for not being able to get this done... and I don't want her to hate me while doing it.
For insulin I use the Lantus Glargine, with a BD Ultra-fine needle (5/16") The vet has started her off with 2units twice a day, and when I can get the shots into her for more than two days at a time, there is a dramatic improvement. She drinks less, pees less, and retains some water in her skin, reducing the bony look she normally has otherwise. I've tried giving her the shots while eating, but she keeps moving away from me. The only way I was successful before was to have my husband pet her to death while I sneak in with the needle. I have been doing them everywhere and anywhere I can get a good tent going, so scruff and side of her belly mostly. I haven't made it to hometesting yet, as I was supposed to bring her back to the vet a week after starting the shots to try and get a reading then. The vet did warn me that it may be difficult as most kitties get stressed and spike their BS regardless when going in. So far though I haven't been able to get a solid week of all her shots in. I read somewhere in this forum about the idea of shaving a 2x2 inch area and doing a "clock" circle idea for the spots, which might help me out. I'm going to try that as soon as I can get her hair trimmed down.

As for other medical issues, she has none. Her life of an indoor cat has been happy and uneventful for the most part and she is a happy, affectionate, well adjusted cat and a bit on the portly side before her diagnosis. Her nickname was Jabba... :-) What I don't understand is she doesn't appear to feel the shots and makes no complaints for the first couple of days. Its after the first couple of days that she starts avoiding me and trying to escape when I pet her or pick her up. I know how important it is for her to be on her schedule, but as a cat she doesn't listen well to reason. How unhealthy is it for her to be missing shots, besides high blood sugar?
 
hi,

We have been dealing with a sugarcat for slightly over a year now. When we start it was tough on us all - and everyone here has gone through what you are going thrugh in one form or another but you can do this. We are lucky as Loki is docile and mostly laid back all the time. Does he feel the needle slipping in - sure and sometime he even complains a bit if I am giving it in his side. Most times I am able to inject him in the back of his neck - he knows something is going on but no exactly what. Sometimes it does take the pair of us - one holding him as the other (me as my better half still will not watch as the needle goes in) injecting. The idea of having your husband playing with Raven and giving lots of attention is a good one.

Now if this was Loki's civ partner in crime - it would take both of us - a towel - protective gloves and masks and we would still have to lock up all the knives and matches in the house as she would be working out a way to get back at us for this :-D

I wouldn't give up hope - when we started hometesting I thought we'd never get there - now Loki treats the whole thing like some sort of a game.
 
This is just a guess...but you are at the point where you need to consider everything.

Are you tenting the skin to shoot ?

If so, I would suggest the following technique. Grab a good bit of FUR to pull up the skin,
rather than pinching the skin itself. It may be the skin pinch she reacts to.

Since you are using short needles, you only need to pull the skin up about 1 inch, and shoot quickly
into the tent. At about a 45-degree angle downward to the body.

Vets usually show you to pull back on the plunger to check for blood before injecting the insulin, but
most of us here skip that step. Just tent, stab, depress plunger, remove syringe. Just a few seconds.

I have difficulty with Smokey at first. He really liked to sit on my lap and be petted, so I took advantage
of that. After eating, get everything ready in a comfortable place. Place pre-loaded syringe within easy reach.

Pet cat, brush and make a big fuss over him. While brushing, use brush to gently separate hair in the target zone.
Continue petting, etc. with one hand, set brush aside and pick up syringe with the other hand. Keep petting.
Now quickly tent and shoot as per above. As soon as possible set syringe down, pick up brush and continue
as if nothing happened.

Hope some of this helps.
 
((((hugs)))) Yes, it really does get easier. I know I was a complete wreck for a while with Bix, and now it's all so easy I don't even think twice about it. My hands used to shake though every time I had to give a shot. It's funny to even remember that (not funny for you I realize!!!), things have gotten just so much easier.

A couple thoughts:

1) I have heard anecdotally that sometimes cats know instinctively when they are getting too much insulin and will hide from the shots because of that. What you wrote, that she does ok for a couple days and then symptoms start improving and she starts hiding, suggests to me that after a couple days perhaps her shed is full, and then the dose may be too high at that point. I don't know a lot about Lantus, but I think they typically only start at 1u 2x/day, and your vet started you at 2u? You might want to try backing down to just 1u per shot, and see if the hiding stops.

2) If you post your location (nearest city, no specifics please!), maybe there is someone nearby who could come over and help you out both with learning the best way to give the shots, and also with home testing. Home testing is a challenge at first, but also gets to be really easy, and makes it SOOOOOO much easier to know what to do as far as the dose.

3) I believe I've read that Lantus can sting a bit, compared to other insulins. Not to open a can of worms, but I wonder if switching to Levemir or PZI might feel better for her? Something maybe just to keep in the back of your mind, and do a little research on and check with your vet. I don't use Lantus, so can't say how much of an issue the stinging really is.

I agree with you that quality of life is the most important, and you don't want your kitty to be miserable and hate you by being treated for diabetes. I think though with shots that most tolerate them pretty well - I had a really fractious cat once who I couldn't pill or anything, but he never minded much about shots. So I'm suspecting it's not literally getting the shot, i.e. the needle, but some other factor...

Anyhow, hang in there, there are lots of great people here ready to help you! :-D
 
Great ideas guys! I'm definately going to try pulling up just a bit on the fur, instead of pinching her. I've been trying to be very light with the pinch and when I pet her normally, I throw a few little pinches and pulls in so she gets used to it as a normal behaviour, rather than a needle tell. I'm also going to make another vet appt tomorrow to discuss her dosage and the insulin type as well...great advice. :-) I had no idea that the insulin could be stinging or that there was any such thing as a "shed". She did let me sneak a quick shot in tonight while she was snuggled in her basket without any fuss. Well... I did have to sing the Raven song. You all know the one.. don't pretend you don't do it too. ;-) She missed out on the last two, so maybe her shed was ready for a little more.

You have all helped more than you know just by responding with kind words and letting me know that I'm not alone with the frustration. I hope one day I'll be able to return the favour to someone else who is struggling with this. Also reading that there is a large percentage of kitties that get OTJ makes me hopeful as she has taken to her new wet food diet and feeding schedule from free feeding in a stride. Now its just the insulin part!
 
One other thing to keep in mind is to rotate the spot where you give the injection. When I started out, I kept giving the shot in the same spot, figuring it'd be easier on me to get used to one spot. Of course, I didn't realise that I was creating a bruise there -- no wonder Gwyn objected after a few days!
 
There's lots of great info over on the Insulin Support Group forums, if you go to the Lantus forum you can read the stickies there for tons of info, including all about the "shed". I really don't know if the sting factor is a minor thing, or really causes problems, so I don't know if that in itself is a real reason someone might switch insulins. If you can tackle hometesting that would be the best thing - then you have more confidence in the dose you are shooting and can be sure that's not the issue.

Glad you are feeling better. Sometimes I forget, but for me there were lots of tears along the way, a few things got thrown across the room in frustration ;-) (not the cat though!), and I'm pretty sure I invented some new swear words. :lol: It's amazing to look back and see how far one has come through the learning curve.

Just keep posting when you have more questions or need some moral support, and we will help if we can!
 
If it isn't hurting her then I would bet she is getting too much hence being ok with shots and then not. 2 units is a bit high for starting..consider posting where you live as we may be able to help test
 
Rockstah said:
Also reading that there is a large percentage of kitties that get OTJ makes me hopeful as she has taken to her new wet food diet and feeding schedule from free feeding in a stride. Now its just the insulin part!
Click to expand...

I was going to ask if you had changed her diet since she was diagnosed and it looks like you have. This alone could mean she is getting too much insulin now. Check with your vet, but she may very well need just one unit now or even less.

Ask your vet if he could help you with learning to hometest too.

You are doing great...hang in there. It does get easier. Keep asking questions.
 
We live in the East Kootenays of BC Canada.... anyone else live in th e general area? :-)

As for food, I'm feeding her Medi-cal Reducing, and Fancy Feast Turkey & Giblets Feast, which is the only FF food on the low carb list here that I can find in my area. The vet gave me four to try and Medi Cal one was Rav`s fav had the most gravy, and was therefore easier to mix up with the Fancy Feast. I have two kitties (Rantin & Raven... corny I know but a dear friend named Rantin) so I had to find something that both would eat. Rant wouldn't touch it for a few days, but now they both scarf it down like its all thev've ever eaten.

Now I'm off to see the vet, and hopefully to get some home test supplies! They did go over hometesting with me during my Injections Lesson, and she said Raven's big ears are perfect for it, as she has very little hair there and it is very easy to see the vein I need. I'll post what I find out. Cheers!
 
I am in Calgary; I love your area but don't get there often enough and I don't know of anyone closer..do you ever make it out this way?
 
Rockstah said:
We live in the East Kootenays of BC Canada.... anyone else live in th e general area? :-)
Click to expand...

Where abouts in the Kootenays? I live in Nanaimo (Vancouver Island) and Vic lives in Vancouver. I can't recall any other BC memebers right now. I also use Lantus (just switched to it in November). If you need an ear, I can always PM you my phone number & we could chat!

Have you checked out the Lantus board here yet? If not, I highly recommend it! There are a lot of very knowledgable people there that can also help! http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9

How did your vet visit go?
 
Sorry for the lag! Work has been extra demanding this week and the rest of my day is spent cooking, cleaning, injecting, feeding ... you know the cycle. ;-)
Vet visit went ok...Raven is still on the heavy side so I've reduced her food which makes both of them protest VERY loudly. My husband couldn't take it anymore last night while I was at work and caved in, putting my feeding schedule a little out of whack. The vet had opted to keep her at 2 units of Lantus twice a day as her bg is coming down, which is good news. It's still higher than it should be though, but considering she had just eaten and had her shot less than an hour before the test and she hates going to the vet, it was to be expected. Vet isn't keen on switching insulins at this time either as it seems to be bringing it down and Raven is looking better and drinking much less. She also showed me another way of tenting and injecting in the side, rather than the end of the tent and with the short needles, its nice and easy.

As for location, I'm about 12 hours from Vancouver Gwen, so that is a little out of the way... and I do get to Calgary on occasion but Raven doesn't travel well. They did show me how to do the test, and I think I could manage it with a set of hands to hold her. Right now, we are going one shot at a time. I need to get her exercising a wee bit more, so I'm off to find a laser pointer! :razz:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top