sunday 3/6 asher

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Here's hoping for a good day.

Donna, don't lose sight of the fact that Asher is basically a regulated kitty - in the 200s most of the time with dips in the 100s. I know he is frustrating because he doesn't react like we think he might. Patience and a dental should mean improvements.

And that's my sermon for this Sunday. :mrgreen:
 
Your sermon is much appreciated Sue.

I also can’t loose sight of the fact that he is now happy, is downstairs making a ruckus and playing with his brother, is affectionate, looks healthy, and acts normal!

But that doesn’t stop me in my quest to make things better. I am gonna call Mom’s vet tomorrow. I don’t know which days he works at that practice, but I will leave a message for him to call me back at the least. Just want to get that ball rolling and going to someone I already know will speed that up a bit. I just need to know his philosophy on FD, what insulins they use, and what they use before/after the dental, etc. I already know his bedside manner is great and he is a kind man.

Also in a philosophical moment, since it is Sunday, I am wondering if my perspective on things could be making things harder for me. I guess I feel like FD is something I have to fight. And maybe “fight" isn’t working for me. There isn’t much I can do to change the fact that this disease happened, so maybe I need to treat this instead of fight this. And maybe that makes no sense at all ;)

Question- you mentioned yesterday that obviously the dental has to get done to see if things get better afterwards, but that an insulin switch might be something to think about. What makes you think that and what insulin would work differently than ProZync? I know we’re not at that point yet, but I was just curious about it all. Esp since I am gonna call another vet to discuss what they use.
 
Reverend Sue appreciates your response to her preaching.....

Two things that might help with perspective: 1. If he was your child and was diabetic, you would be thrilled with his health and happiness and perfectly willing to just give that shot of insulin every day with no thought of a "cure". It is only because some cats go OTJ that we tend to have that goal in mind. 2. Sometimes we think that everyone's cat is OTJ but ours. Lantus is the largest group forum and while cats there do go OTJ, there are many cats there who have been on insulin for several years and are regulated but still not close to OTJ. You might just lurk over there a little.

One reason the dental keeps popping up for me are situations like this: I tend to keep track of people I helped on the Health forum and then sent to an ISG. Georgia and Simon are such a pair. They were doing great on Lantus, almost OTJ and then he was diagnosed with pancreatitis. He is back up in the 300s. So I do think pain can be a real bg raiser and someone we can't quantify or even recognize. Cats are so good at hiding pain.

If I were you, I would not consider an insulin change until after the dental. Then, if PZI is still not giving Asher reasonable, understandable cycles, then I would look at something else. There just is no perfect insulin; it is always that ECID thing......

Climbing back down from my pulpit...

I hope you have a wonderful reassuring talk with your mom's vet. It would be great for you to find someone who appreciates your dedication and hard work with Asher.
 
Well I have been wanting low numbers, and we got em. Just tested for pmps. (Took a couple readings since the first one was a real small drop of blood and we had that trouble before.)

We got 79, and then 102 and 128 on a second large drop of blood.
So this is an avg of 103.

I am assuming this means 2.2 is too much of a dose that we r this low this late.

So, any suggestions? We can’t go too low on the dose because you know what happens on this dude. We fed just a chicken snack for the test and are on hold for food until we see what we’re gonna do. I am hoping his number goes up soon.

Please note the spreadsheet where we took a chance on the pmps 126 that we shot 1.8 into on March 3. He was high all night.

I know I am asking the world here, but I’m open to what you guys think.
 
Well, it usually means the dose is too high, but who knows with Asher.

It is going down, so you do need to get a rising number before shooting, Donna. I honestly don't know what to shoot. He just doesn't react like we think he should. We think we choose a dose that will have him react like we want and he throws a curve.

I'd say go with a dose you are comfortable and plan on some testing. Wish I understood his patterns. My only idea is that when he feels good (maybe no tooth pain?), he throws good numbers. When he doesn't feel good, we get those high numbers.
 
Wow, great numbers! Boy he sure keeps everyone guessing what he'll do next. This isn't much help to you but my gut instinct would be to skip the shot. But then I'm just a big yellow chicken!

Big help that was. ;-)
 
Unfortunately, his brief history shows we can’t really skip a shot without some real crappy numbers ahead.

So I am inclined to wait as long as we can to shoot the closest to a full dose as we can. Since we raised him to 2.2, I’d be happy to get 2 into him but....

Just depends on how loud the clammering gets from the fur crew that wants din din. And Tom and I haven’t eaten yet either. So much for a schedule tonight and tomorrow :shock:

So we’ll test again and see where we are. I’ll letcha know what we decide to do. Unless it’ll make ya too nervous ;) drinking09
 
Oh---I see the March 3. So from those two times, it would appear 2U is not such a stretch. But I hate to contribute to your staying up at night to test!
 
In early Feb we shot .75 into 149 and were in the 100s overnight.

On Feb 21st we shot 1.4 into a 137 and we ranged between 300 and 245 from what we tested.

On March 3 we shot a 1.8 into a 126 and were in the 300s overnight.

So I can’t say this isn’t evolving somehow. Maybe I am reading it wrong but I think we have to shoot as much as we can feel safe about.
We took a chance on that last example but he was high anyway.

He is trying to make my hair match his gray fur ;)
 
To make this crazier---(I apologize if I am complicating things)---what If the pink numbers that followed those two low PS numbers were rebound? Would that mean that more insulin is not the answer?
 
It could certainly mean that Judy. I don’t think I truly understand how rebound works or at least how it applies to Asher.

We just upped his dose to 2.2 three cycles ago. We were trying to get him a bit lower overall in numbers.
It’s possible he needs 2.1 right now, dunno. We don’t see mr green much and were trying for that I guess.
 
I wasn't thinking that there is a general pattern of rebound---just that when he has a low PS and you shoot a reasonably fair dose, that he then tends to go higher than he has been. But you know him best and your gut works well. Wish this were not so complicated.
 
Just tested again and he hasn’t gone up enuf to say he’s on the rise, he’s at 109 now. We’re still in a holding pattern....
 
He does continually push the envelope. He acts like an unpredictable teenager :mrgreen: Just when you think you understand them a little.

Not that this isn't a great problem to have. Just wish I knew what exactly would keep the momentum going.....
 
Nah, we didn’t eat dinner yet. Seems mean for us to eat and have the kitties smell our fud when they, or at least Asher, can’t eat yet :(
Solidarity :razz:

Sue, is Niko in a soda case in that pic? Avatars are so small and my eyes so bad :(
 
Hi Donna, please don't shoot 2u into a 100ish bg, my heart can't take it.

I have been staying out of it because you all have been making good decisions and I'll be the first to admit I tend to hang out in the big yellow chicken coop but I've caught my breath a couple of times and prayed for the best.

IMHO the higher numbers after a healthy dose of insulin on a lower bg is panicky liver meaning too much insulin. But you have been getting good results on doses bigger than I would recommend so keep going with your gut but I would back off the dose some now. It's good that you are looking back at your ss to see what worked and what didn't and go from there, that is how we all learn from each other.
 
Hi guys,
He is finally going up and all of us got to eat :) My dinner is a piece of cheese and glass of wine at this point. Ok down to biz......

We got a reading 154 a half hour ago (so he went from 109 to 154 in 45 mins) and we fed him.
He ate like a pig to be quite honest, I guess because of waiting so long since he’s been asking for food for about 2 hours now :(

Tom and I discussed it and looked at his chart for the 50th time tonight. We shot 2 units. We based that on his last low pmps and that he rose almost 50 points in 45 mins. I hope that didn’t scare anyone out there. I will be testing tonight obviously.

Now that I get back here and read Robin’s post I hope I didn’t screw anything up with the panicky liver. I was back and forth about what to do 6 times :(
I hope we chose correctly.
 
Don't stress, Donna. There are no absolutes with predictable kitties, and we all know Asher is not predictable. You are going to test tonight and you know what to do if he dips low.
 
Yep, we have a hypo kit in the kitchen and bedroom. Heaven forbid. The night time testing kit is already in the bedroom with frozen chicken treats.

Oh, and momma has a glass of wine so she can get some sleep until the first test.

Thanks guys. I truly appreciate you always being here. It’s always a panic here in the dutch ghetto. I apologize for so much commotion.

G’nite all...peace, out......
 
ECID. What worked for Harley won't work for other kitties, that's why I've been staying out of it because I don't have any experience with shooting higher doses into lower numbers, but others here do and that is what makes this site so great.

My heart may skip a beat but you know what to do, so I'm not worried about Asher.

Have a great night.
 
donnahc said:
Also in a philosophical moment, since it is Sunday, I am wondering if my perspective on things could be making things harder for me. I guess I feel like FD is something I have to fight. And maybe “fight" isn’t working for me. There isn’t much I can do to change the fact that this disease happened, so maybe I need to treat this instead of fight this. And maybe that makes no sense at all ;)
Click to expand...

Late to the party, but I think you hit the nail on the head. I think it helps to think of the insulin as a support system - you are providing the juice that their body needs to stay balanced - it's just a matter of finding the right balance, which if their body were working flawlessly it would do on its own. So it's kind of like being a behind-the-scenes mom/dad trying to give your kid enough support that they can have the illusion of managing on their own, i.e. don't smother, but don't be too far away either. Ok, not sure if that analogy works. :)

And remember too that even OTJ cats are still diabetic. There is no "cure", just diet-controlled. We've seen a number of cats end up back on insulin (not to demoralize anyone, sorry) for various reasons. It's just about managing it as best you can, sometimes it's easy, more often it isn't, every situation is different.
 
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