Sue and Joe-learning this and trying to get regulated

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going to concentrate on getting some pre-shots. The help here has been so valuable. I could not have gotten my Joe this far without the dedicated ladies that have helped us
 
It looks like Joe had a bit of a bounce!

Those pre-shot tests are important. It's the best way to know if it's safe to give insulin. We encourage getting your AMPS and PMPS and at least one additional test per cycle. Sometime soon, you'll want to get a curve (i.e., testing every 2 hours over a 12-hour cycle) so you have a better idea of when insulin onset and nadir occur.
 
Please explain bounce? Does 'each cycle' mean each day?
Yes, @JanetNJ just reminded me about the importance of pre-shots. I got off track. lol. SO MUCH to learn
 
There's a HUGE amount to learn!!!

A cycle is 12-hours. It's the period between shots.

A bounce is a term we use here so your vet is unlikely to know what you're talking about. Bounces typically occur due to one more reasons:
  • numbers drop low
  • numbers drop fast
  • numbers drop into a range your cat isn't used to
We don't know where Joe started out on 7/9 but the drop to 61 was likely a low number for him and certainly lower than where he's been spending most of his time. What you then saw was that a few hours later, he was at 420. When the numbers drop, the liver and pancreas go into panic mode. They release a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones that cause the numbers to spike back upward. It can take roughly 3 days/6 cycles for a bounce to clear. The bounces are annoying to us and cause some cats to feel a bit punk due to the swings in their BG numbers. However annoying this may be, it's a protective mechanism.

Part of why it's also important to get tests is that you don't know if the 61 was a bad test. If you see a number that looks out of sync, I usually advise that you get another test. Gabby could throw me some pretty wild numbers. Getting another test immediately will let you know if it was a bad test or bad strip or if the number is accurate. (And please remember that there's always variance -- if you got a 70 on an immediate test after the 61, it's accurate.)
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
There's a HUGE amount to learn!!!

A cycle is 12-hours. It's the period between shots.

A bounce is a term we use here so your vet is unlikely to know what you're talking about. Bounces typically occur due to one more reasons:
  • numbers drop low
  • numbers drop fast
  • numbers drop into a range your cat isn't used to
We don't know where Joe started out on 7/9 but the drop to 61 was likely a low number for him and certainly lower than where he's been spending most of his time. What you then saw was that a few hours later, he was at 420. When the numbers drop, the liver and pancreas go into panic mode. They release a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones that cause the numbers to spike back upward. It can take roughly 3 days/6 cycles for a bounce to clear. The bounces are annoying to us and cause some cats to feel a bit punk due to the swings in their BG numbers. However annoying this may be, it's a protective mechanism.

Part of why it's also important to get tests is that you don't know if the 61 was a bad test. If you see a number that looks out of sync, I usually advise that you get another test. Gabby could throw me some pretty wild numbers. Getting another test immediately will let you know if it was a bad test or bad strip or if the number is accurate. (And please remember that there's always variance -- if you got a 70 on an immediate test after the 61, it's accurate.)
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Thank you for the explanation. Since I have been looking at others SS to get an idea of what others are dealing with I looked at Gabby's. That lead me to look at Gobby's profile and then legacy. So beautiful and so well documented. Gabby was so lucky to have landed in the arms of someone who would take such good care of her for her entire life. Lovely tribute.
 
Joe looks so much better than he did a week ago. I feel like he feels better too
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Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Part of why it's also important to get tests is that you don't know if the 61 was a bad test. If you see a number that looks out of sync, I usually advise that you get another test. Gabby could throw me some pretty wild numbers. Getting another test immediately will let you know if it was a bad test or bad strip or if the number is accurate. (And please remember that there's always variance -- if you got a 70 on an immediate test after the 61, it's accurate.)
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Sienne,
I did test twice because it was such a wild number compared to his usual that I felt sure something was wrong. The second test was 63 only a few minutes later
 
@ +6 today Joes BG is very high. First reading is 494. I wanted to double check but he was not cooperating. Had to wait 4-5 minutes and fill his tuna bites, then test again. 545. worried. Is something wrong?
 
I strongly suspect Joe is bouncing. Every time you see numbers in the 200s or below, Joe skyrockets to the moon. He will drop back down and then bounces back up. He's due for an increase tomorrow.

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Susan Pomo said:
Is there anything I should be doing differently?
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It's ok, I know it's alarming, but the ladies here know their stuff, and if they were concerned they would tell you.

Off the top of my head, make sure to not let him eat 2 hours before you test his blood sugar in preparation for his insulin shot.
It's something that is hard for me, to think ahead two hours and have to time feeding accordingly.

I think you're doing great, and Joe seems happy with his cute little white chest. Does he scratch at those mats?
 
Relief!
Smorgasbord, thank you for the reassurance.
I have to let Joe eat while testing, but it is the minute of testing. Bites of chicken and tuna in order to get him to coop with testing. I will make sure he does not get substantial food 2 hours before going forward. His appetite is huge and has been for the last two days and I guess that is due to the high numbers
The mats were put down, in each doorway, as I sometimes have either a foster cat, foster kittens, or wild kittens in one or other of the rooms. I do a lot of trapping of ferals, for TNR (trap neuter return) and sometimes find a nice cat that I house for few days while I try to place it in Rescue. Or wild kittens that I am socializing so they can go to Rescue. When this is going on, room doors get shut with someone locked in a room or out of a room and they tear at the carpet in the entryway.
Once I put all mats down I realized it was a win-win because now all three scratch at these daily. Joe has always loved a big sisal coconut husk one I have at the front door and I am happy to see him doing that again.
YES Joe is happy and seems healthy. So much different than he was when I joined this forum and learned to manage him at home.

Is there a way to check a cats BP?
 
Susan Pomo said:
Relief!
Smorgasbord, thank you for the reassurance.
I have to let Joe eat while testing, but it is the minute of testing. Bites of chicken and tuna in order to get him to coop with testing. I will make sure he does not get substantial food 2 hours before going forward. His appetite is huge and has been for the last two days and I guess that is due to the high numbers
The mats were put down, in each doorway, as I sometimes have either a foster cat, foster kittens, or wild kittens in one or other of the rooms. I do a lot of trapping of ferals, for TNR (trap neuter return) and sometimes find a nice cat that I house for few days while I try to place it in Rescue. Or wild kittens that I am socializing so they can go to Rescue. When this is going on, room doors get shut with someone locked in a room or out of a room and they tear at the carpet in the entryway.
Once I put all mats down I realized it was a win-win because now all three scratch at these daily. Joe has always loved a big sisal coconut husk one I have at the front door and I am happy to see him doing that again.
YES Joe is happy and seems healthy. So much different than he was when I joined this forum and learned to manage him at home.

Is there a way to check a cats BP?
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You need specialized equipment to test their bp, but your vet should be able to do it.
 
Susan Pomo said:
I cannot believe this but I refused delivery of all the syringes I ordered once I bought the new ones from Costco.
Can you tell me which are better
https://www.chewy.com/pettest-u-40-syringes-31-gauge-x-516/dp/284667
https://www.chewy.com/ulticare-insulin-syringes-u-40-29-g-x/dp/206319
I need some with 1/2 mrkings
shorter needles if possible
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I have used both and liked both. The pet test ones are a little thinner which my cat liked I'm sure... The ulti ones didn't bend as easily and had a sturdier feel. I say get a box of both and decide which one you prefer. It's not like you aren't going to need two boxes eventually. Haha
 
If I am reading things correctly, it looks like the Pet Test ones have a shorter needle at 5/16 ( a smidgen over 1/4") and the Ulti ones have a 1/2 inch needle, being much longer. I feel this is where I get in trouble because that long needle goes into where I want it to go but out another side. Especially if Joe is not being still.
 
Susan Pomo said:
If I am reading things correctly, it looks like the Pet Test ones have a shorter needle at 5/16 ( a smidgen over 1/4") and the Ulti ones have a 1/2 inch needle, being much longer. I feel this is where I get in trouble because that long needle goes into where I want it to go but out another side. Especially if Joe is not being still.
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Ok then go with that one. :)
 
Susan Pomo said:
Relief!
Smorgasbord, thank you for the reassurance.
I have to let Joe eat while testing, but it is the minute of testing. Bites of chicken and tuna in order to get him to coop with testing. I will make sure he does not get substantial food 2 hours before going forward. His appetite is huge and has been for the last two days and I guess that is due to the high numbers
The mats were put down, in each doorway, as I sometimes have either a foster cat, foster kittens, or wild kittens in one or other of the rooms. I do a lot of trapping of ferals, for TNR (trap neuter return) and sometimes find a nice cat that I house for few days while I try to place it in Rescue. Or wild kittens that I am socializing so they can go to Rescue. When this is going on, room doors get shut with someone locked in a room or out of a room and they tear at the carpet in the entryway.
Once I put all mats down I realized it was a win-win because now all three scratch at these daily. Joe has always loved a big sisal coconut husk one I have at the front door and I am happy to see him doing that again.
YES Joe is happy and seems healthy. So much different than he was when I joined this forum and learned to manage him at home.

Is there a way to check a cats BP?[/QUOTE

Oh enticement at testing is fine, it will take 20 minutes to hit his bloodstream so you're good there.

Aww that's awesome. The rescuing, not tearing at the carpet. Oh yeah, win win for sure. Sisal is a favorite in our household as well.
I'm so happy for him, and glad you found the forum. You're really making fast progress, I can't say it enough.
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Joes vitamins came in the mail. I will be giving him 1/2 capsule once a day in his evening meal
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JanetNJ said:
Great! I would do half a capsule morning and the other half evening.
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OK, I full capsule a day then. Half with morning meal and half with evening.
The 121 was a good number.
I am still feeding Joe quite a bit because he is hungry and because he lost so much weight. A good weight for him is 12-13lbs and he got down to 8.
He has a morning meal, a late morning meal, a lunch and a late afternoon lunch. Dinner. All small meals but he eats it all. Each meal is about 2ounces. Or 1/3 of a 5.5 ounce can. Is this contributing to his numbers not regulating?
I feel he is putting on weight slowly and is certainly looking and acting better.
 
Susan Pomo said:
OK, I full capsule a day then. Half with morning meal and half with evening.
The 121 was a good number.
I am still feeding Joe quite a bit because he is hungry and because he lost so much weight. A good weight for him is 12-13lbs and he got down to 8.
He has a morning meal, a late morning meal, a lunch and a late afternoon lunch. Dinner. All small meals but he eats it all. Each meal is about 2ounces. Or 1/3 of a 5.5 ounce can. Is this contributing to his numbers not regulating?
I feel he is putting on weight slowly and is certainly looking and acting better.
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feed him as much as he wants. :D If his ideal weight is 12 lbs... aim for at least 240 calories! I'm glad he's feeling good. Don't restrict food just to get lower numbers. NO i don't think it's making a huge difference with the numbers. I always did breakfast, lunch, dinner, before bed meals. :)
 
JanetNJ said:
feed him as much as he wants. :D If his ideal weight is 12 lbs... aim for at least 240 calories! I'm glad he's feeling good. Don't restrict food just to get lower numbers. NO i don't think it's making a huge difference with the numbers. I always did breakfast, lunch, dinner, before bed meals. :)
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So glad! I did not even mention that before bed meal because I was a little embarrassed for him. lol
 
Susan Pomo said:
OK, I full capsule a day then. Half with morning meal and half with evening.
The 121 was a good number.
I am still feeding Joe quite a bit because he is hungry and because he lost so much weight. A good weight for him is 12-13lbs and he got down to 8.
He has a morning meal, a late morning meal, a lunch and a late afternoon lunch. Dinner. All small meals but he eats it all. Each meal is about 2ounces. Or 1/3 of a 5.5 ounce can. Is this contributing to his numbers not regulating?
I feel he is putting on weight slowly and is certainly looking and acting better.
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8 pounds!! Wow, we should talk about that some time, Templeton also lost 30% of his body weight, we probably have some similar stories to tell!
What is Joe's weight now?
Let him eat as much as he wants! Yeah you could have more precise data if you restricted his food to specific times and whatnot, but gaining weight is utmost priority.
How often do you weigh him? We eventually got fed up with holding him on the human scale, and bought a baby scale. It's pretty darn cute to see him on it.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009MFUZE?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20
 
smorgasbord said:
Well of course I HAD to to go find the photos of him on the scale.
View attachment 61676View attachment 61677
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I would share these photos everywhere if it were me. Pretty darn cute.
I was going to the vet weekly for Joe's glucose to be checked (before I learned to do it) and I would get weight then.
I am thinking about just zipping him over for weight now. If he is not gaining and it gets more in-depth I might buy the scale. Consideration for the future.
 
Joe is having a lot of Diarrhea. I suspect I made the change too quickly to Weruva. I am still not giving just Weruva. It is always mixed with Friskies canned Pate. I started Weruva about a week ago mixing half and half. Still doing that. Yesterday evening I added his Vitamin to his evening meal. The Diarrhea last night was bad and he did not even go in the box to do it. Just left trails all over the (thankfully) wood floors. I am going to start closing off all doors to rooms that have carpet when I am not in them.
 
Susan Pomo said:
Joe is having a lot of Diarrhea. I suspect I made the change too quickly to Weruva. I am still not giving just Weruva. It is always mixed with Friskies canned Pate. I started Weruva about a week ago mixing half and half. Still doing that. Yesterday evening I added his Vitamin to his evening meal. The Diarrhea last night was bad and he did not even go in the box to do it. Just left trails all over the (thankfully) wood floors. I am going to start closing off all doors to rooms that have carpet when I am not in them.
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oh no, poor kitty!
 
Can you get on a human scale at home with him and get a weight and then get on just by yourself and get the difference?
Ugh poor baby. Hopefully just diarrhea from the drastically better whole food ingredients in Weruva. Templeton sprinted to the bathroom after one of the ones with whole pieces of sardines.
 
smorgasbord said:
Can you get on a human scale at home with him and get a weight and then get on just by yourself and get the difference?
Ugh poor baby. Hopefully just diarrhea from the drastically better whole food ingredients in Weruva. Templeton sprinted to the bathroom after one of the ones with whole pieces of sardines.
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I can get somewhat of a weight of his doing it that way but not accurate. At the vet he was 8.5 and then 8.6, etc. Joe does not like to be held much so he will bucking this and it will not be accurate
 
Susan Pomo said:
I can get somewhat of a weight of his doing it that way but not accurate. At the vet he was 8.5 and then 8.6, etc. Joe does not like to be held much so he will bucking this and it will not be accurate
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Hmm. Yeah, if it's too difficult then it won't work.
Templeton would weigh himself for years just by waiting on the scale for us to turn on his "bathtub waterfall". Maybe you can get creative, maybe put some of his tuna on the scale!
 
smorgasbord said:
Hmm. Yeah, if it's too difficult then it won't work.
Templeton would weigh himself for years just by waiting on the scale for us to turn on his "bathtub waterfall". Maybe you can get creative, maybe put some of his tuna on the scale!
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I used to be able to get my guy Joe to do anything for me. I taught him how to stand and wave Bye-Bye for treats long ago. He is a grumpy old man now.
 
StarburstMom said:
Is this product better, worse or different than Jarrows?
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While looking for something to give Joe for diarrhea I ran across this Jarrow. It seems it is a Pro-biotic. What I am giving Joe is a vitamin for low red blood count. I might be turning to the Jarrow too though @JanetNJ. Good idea? Diarrhea still here and he is pooping all over. I think the Weruva is such a change
 
Susan Pomo said:
While looking for something to give Joe for diarrhea I ran across this Jarrow. It seems it is a Pro-biotic. What I am giving Joe is a vitamin for low red blood count. I might be turning to the Jarrow too though @JanetNJ. Good idea? Diarrhea still here and he is pooping all over. I think the Weruva is such a change
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Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm referring to the Jarrows B-right, it's a B complex vitamin.
 
Plain pumpkin is sometimes good for diarrhea because the fiber in it can bulk up stool. Worth a try. I like using pumpkin baby food because it's blended very smoothly.
 
Susan Pomo said:
I used to be able to get my guy Joe to do anything for me. I taught him how to stand and wave Bye-Bye for treats long ago. He is a grumpy old man now.
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Well. I'm sure he will be feeling better soon. That sounds like an amazing trick, do you have videos of it?!
 
I thought I had one on my youtube channel but it will take some time to go through my phone and find one. Most of them were from years ago. I did find this was, fairly recent before Joe lost so much weight. Before his diagnosis. He is mad because Cheddar is sitting at his place at the front door where they watch the daily activities outside
 
That must have been scary, to have him lose so much weight. And still be starving food like normal, I assume? Did you get to the emergency syringe feeding stage? Templeton learned real fast when I came bearing the syringe and a towel to put down on the kitchen floor. He would give me side eye and sprint away as fast as his paws could carry him.
 
The thing that happened is, I was on a walking routine, I would walk the dog morning and evening trying to get to my 8k steps on my Fitbit. Joe would walk with us, all the way around the block. He always followed (or lead) and so I assumed he was losing weight from the strenuous activity. He was not interested in eating as much but never really stopped eating. He had a few other issues and I was having his blood work done and nothing was showing up. By the time it got bad, when the weight just kept coming off, and he was always hungry, the next blood test revealed his bad numbers. He was close to 600 then. Right around this time he grabbed a turkey wrap out of my hand, another time I found he was stealing stuff, croutons, etc off the counter and eating them because I guess he was starving. It all happened so fast after months of nothing showing up in blood work. When it did show, it really showed. I was just grateful to have a diagnosis.
So Templeton was refusing to eat?
 
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