Success without insulin injections?
- Thread starter corteza
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MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Not with oral meds, but I have a guy here that just celebrated 4 years in remission on just about diet change alone. He did have about 2 weeks worth of insulin shots while in a foster home waiting to be transported to me, but I love to say he wasn't pack well enough when he was transported because he broke in shipping (a broken diabetic is one that is in remission) because once I got him home he only had one shot after that and then went completely off the juice.
Mel and The Fur Gang
Mel and The Fur Gang
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
I would much rather give injections any day to any of my cats than try to pill one. The shots really aren't bad and Autumn never even looks up when I give them to her. But pilling her is an entirely different ball of wax. I need a suit of armor and shackles to get a tiny pill down her throat and she is front declawed. lol
The problem with oral meds is they seldom work for a cat and they cause the already weak pancreas to work harder, which means that if you do have to finally go over to insulin injections you have probably greatly lessened your cat's chances of going into remission and coming off insulin altogether. The sooner insulin therapy is started with a newly dxed cat the more likely they are to go into remission and stop needing insulin or any thing other than diet to control the diabetes.
The very reason my Autumn will probably never completely come off insulin is because her previous owner didn't start her on any treatment at all for 10+ months after she was dxed and now the damage has been done to her pancreas to the point it may never heal enough to take over again on it's own.
Mel and The Fur Gang
The problem with oral meds is they seldom work for a cat and they cause the already weak pancreas to work harder, which means that if you do have to finally go over to insulin injections you have probably greatly lessened your cat's chances of going into remission and coming off insulin altogether. The sooner insulin therapy is started with a newly dxed cat the more likely they are to go into remission and stop needing insulin or any thing other than diet to control the diabetes.
The very reason my Autumn will probably never completely come off insulin is because her previous owner didn't start her on any treatment at all for 10+ months after she was dxed and now the damage has been done to her pancreas to the point it may never heal enough to take over again on it's own.
Mel and The Fur Gang
Melanie and Smokey
Member Since 2010
Diet change alone can absolute help a cat go into remission, but often times a short period of time with insulin is what a cat needs to assist the pancreas in healing. Many get shots for just a few months or less. My Smokey was on insulin for less than 3 months (I think about a month after we switched foods and started testing), foster Cecil was on Vetsulin for about 2 months and got very ill, switched him to Lantus and took the rest of the dry food out of his diet and he was into remission in about 1 month, foster ChrisFarley is approaching 2 months on insulin and hopefully only a couple more weeks and he will be "off-the-juice".
Giving a cat a diet change trial is great. But don't hold out too long trying to avoid giving shots. The sooner a cat is given insulin after diagnosis, the better chance they have at remission. Historically, there haven't been any good oral meds for cats, I would use caution with those. Glipizide actually damages the pancreas (and the liver) and makes remission harder. I think the med you are using might be in the same class of drugs as it is. I would use pills for a diabetic cat only if shots were absolutely not an option myself.
Giving a cat a diet change trial is great. But don't hold out too long trying to avoid giving shots. The sooner a cat is given insulin after diagnosis, the better chance they have at remission. Historically, there haven't been any good oral meds for cats, I would use caution with those. Glipizide actually damages the pancreas (and the liver) and makes remission harder. I think the med you are using might be in the same class of drugs as it is. I would use pills for a diabetic cat only if shots were absolutely not an option myself.
dirtybirdsoaps
Member Since 2014
Melanie and Smokey said:
I was worried about this as well.
Diet change: definitely
Oral meds: Errrrr, not so much
Yes, I was also worried about the effect of the oral meds, but thought with diet change I would have to try them. I guess I am concerned about not giving him the right amount, causing him pain and checking his blood more often as he does not like it now at only once every 2 days. He also does not have very much skin between his shoulder blades for injection. confused_cat
Melanie and Smokey
Member Since 2010
I think I'd actually be inclined to be testing more on the Glyburide. The most common side effect I've found it noted for in people is hypoglycemia. A much higher rate than other meds it appears. This is the first time I've ever seen someone with it prescribed for their cat so I am not sure what kind of track record (if any) it has in feline diabetes treatment. If you are only testing once every couple of days, do keep an eye on him for physical signs of hypoglycemia, any acting out of sorts or not eating. Hopefully he comes down gently and quickly and can get off those meds in the short term.
phlika29
Member Since 2014
The long lasting insulins seem to be the preferred option. I have got my cat on lantus but levemir is also used and one called prozinc (I think). I bought my lantus in 5x3ml cartridges and you use syringes to draw it up. The amount you need is tiny so although just 3 ml they last a long time if stored correctly (in the fridge).
I was very afraid of starting insulin but really besides the first few days where it is all so new and confusing it quickly becomes manageable. He syringe needles are so small they are easy to inject and my cat hardly even notices me doing it. My advice would be to speak to your vet sooner rather than later about switching to injections. Uncontrolled blood glucose just isn't a good thing in the long term. In the meantime I would have a look at the stickies in the top of the tight regulation and relaxed lantus forums. There are some great ones that show how you store, draw up and inject insulin.
I was very afraid of starting insulin but really besides the first few days where it is all so new and confusing it quickly becomes manageable. He syringe needles are so small they are easy to inject and my cat hardly even notices me doing it. My advice would be to speak to your vet sooner rather than later about switching to injections. Uncontrolled blood glucose just isn't a good thing in the long term. In the meantime I would have a look at the stickies in the top of the tight regulation and relaxed lantus forums. There are some great ones that show how you store, draw up and inject insulin.
Melanie and Smokey
Member Since 2010
When he acts that way, I'd recommend grabbing the meter and testing him. You will be able to know then what is going on and not just guess whether meds are working or not/whether they are dropping him too low or not/etc. The more often they get tested, the more they get used to it. Trust me ;-) Right now our foster Cecil climbs on top of our foster ChrisFarley purring whenever I am trying to test Chris because we don't test Cecil that much anymore and he is jealous. I am an absolute preacher for testing. Regardless of what meds they are on, the only way to know what is going on is to test. Once you know what is going on you can make informed decisions.
Usually when we get the pens, we still us syringes to draw the insulin out of them. Cats are micro-dosing compared to people so the syringes are easier to use. There is a rubber stopper at the end of the pens. There are a few members now that use the pens with their tips and are doing fine that way too. You just have to do full units I believe, I don't think they do partial units.
Can you spend the next couple of days getting some tests in? Maybe at the time of meds, and another 2-3 others in the day? Maybe we are alarming you for no good reason. Maybe his numbers are looking good and he shouldn't be on meds right now and you can try a food trial. Maybe his numbers are still sky high, maybe they are way too low. A couple days of a few tests could give you an idea of whether he should continue on, switch to shots, or just get off of meds all together for a bit. Personally, I think it would be a good idea to get off of the pills and look at something like Lantus, Levimir, or PZI/Prozinc, but with some data, you may be able to see a clear path on what to do.
Usually when we get the pens, we still us syringes to draw the insulin out of them. Cats are micro-dosing compared to people so the syringes are easier to use. There is a rubber stopper at the end of the pens. There are a few members now that use the pens with their tips and are doing fine that way too. You just have to do full units I believe, I don't think they do partial units.
Can you spend the next couple of days getting some tests in? Maybe at the time of meds, and another 2-3 others in the day? Maybe we are alarming you for no good reason. Maybe his numbers are looking good and he shouldn't be on meds right now and you can try a food trial. Maybe his numbers are still sky high, maybe they are way too low. A couple days of a few tests could give you an idea of whether he should continue on, switch to shots, or just get off of meds all together for a bit. Personally, I think it would be a good idea to get off of the pills and look at something like Lantus, Levimir, or PZI/Prozinc, but with some data, you may be able to see a clear path on what to do.
For a cat's pancreas to heal, you want him to spend as much time between 2.8 (50) and 5.5 (100) as possible. Anything over around 13 (230 ish) can be over renal threshold and harder on the cat's kidneys. The sooner you can get his numbers down with insulin, the greater the chance of remission.
Since you are in Canada, you want the BD Ultra-Fine II syringes, 3/10 mL/CC, 8 mm, 31 gauge needle - it's the purple and yellow box. Lantus or Levemir are best bought by the 5 pack of cartridges. They barely notice the 31 gauge needles. There are alternate sites you can give a shot - look here. There are pictures of the cartridges and a video of drawing insulin from them on this thread.
Testing very much becomes a habit with cats. Often Neko will go hang out near the testing spot when she thinks it's meal time or even just a regular test time and sometimes I can tell she is going lower because she does the same then.
Since you are in Canada, you want the BD Ultra-Fine II syringes, 3/10 mL/CC, 8 mm, 31 gauge needle - it's the purple and yellow box. Lantus or Levemir are best bought by the 5 pack of cartridges. They barely notice the 31 gauge needles. There are alternate sites you can give a shot - look here. There are pictures of the cartridges and a video of drawing insulin from them on this thread.
Testing very much becomes a habit with cats. Often Neko will go hang out near the testing spot when she thinks it's meal time or even just a regular test time and sometimes I can tell she is going lower because she does the same then.
I have now printed out the above info so that I can take it to my pharmacist. Do you use a pen to take blood tests? I tried with One Touch Delica and could not get any blood though my setting was at around 5. It is very nice to have help with this. I do want him to get better, at least give him a couple more years of quality life. As he is 14 I am still concerned about stressing him out too much...
When you first start doing blood tests, it's better to start with a 28 or 29 gauge lancet. Their ears will learn to bleed easier, and over time you can move to the Delica (which is what I use now). Some people use the lancing device and some free hand. It's a matter of personal preference. My cat is almost 14 too, and she'll very willingly come for her test cause she knows there is a treat afterwards. 
It's great that you are wanting to help your cat. We have one member whose cat was diagnosed at age 11, he's still on insulin, and he turns 20 today.
It's great that you are wanting to help your cat. We have one member whose cat was diagnosed at age 11, he's still on insulin, and he turns 20 today.
That is a great success story. If all our wonderful cats would be able to live til 20 and be relatively healthy wouldn't that be great! flip_cat I actually do my testing free hand. Not always able to get blood the first time but usually second time. Starting to feel abit better now about insulin shots. Do not know what my vet has prescribed but hopefully it will be the longer lasting one that seems to be the choice here.
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
The shots are very easy, and the needle is no bigger than a human hair, Autumn doesn't even blink as I usually give it to her while she is whiskers deep in her food dish.
Actually I think you will find the shots much easier than pilling a cat.
Mel and The Fur Gang
Actually I think you will find the shots much easier than pilling a cat.
Mel and The Fur Gang
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Yep I test, feed and shoot all in about 15 minutes ( I have 3 to test, 16 to feed and 1 to shoot). I just test everyone, then get all the food ready, serve the crew and swoop in and give Autumn her shot, easy as pie. For awhile I was shooting 3 back then my Cassanova was still on insulin and I was fostering a diabetic cat for my vet. Same routine except times 3 on the shots.
To give you an idea how small the insulin needles are most of us use 30 or 31 gauge, now the smaller the number the bigger the hole it makes. A typical pieced earring post is around 22 gauge and a french wire is about 24 gauge so the needle you will use to give insulin is thinner than the part you stick in your ear when you put on earrings.
Mel and The Fur Gang
To give you an idea how small the insulin needles are most of us use 30 or 31 gauge, now the smaller the number the bigger the hole it makes. A typical pieced earring post is around 22 gauge and a french wire is about 24 gauge so the needle you will use to give insulin is thinner than the part you stick in your ear when you put on earrings.
Mel and The Fur Gang
A lot of people give insulin when their cat's head is buried in the bowl. My Neko eats raw food and hoovers so quickly that I do it afterwards. I've even had her purr during injections.
I know what you mean about large needles. I also give Neko cartrophen shots monthly for her arthritis and it comes in larger needles. I've occasionally transferred it over to an insulin syringe first - so much easier! My hubby helped out with shots right away but was reluctant to help at first with testing. Since you've already started testing, I think you've done the harder one first.
I know what you mean about large needles. I also give Neko cartrophen shots monthly for her arthritis and it comes in larger needles. I've occasionally transferred it over to an insulin syringe first - so much easier! My hubby helped out with shots right away but was reluctant to help at first with testing. Since you've already started testing, I think you've done the harder one first.
Good visual to have in terms of needle and hole size. Unfortunately, my husband works up north for 21 days, so I have had to start this on my own! My cat always twitches when I test his ear, maybe doing it free hand I prick it a bit harder. I just hope that I will be able to do the needles as confidently as you do! If the needle is that small then surely he won't feel anything. I have another 14 year old cat but is a female and not so prone to diabetes as a male and another younger female at 1+ years. Thankfully I only have one to deal with at the moment. Hugs to those of you have replied and offered your continued support. cat_pet_icon
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
I have to agree with Wendy. Testing is far harder than shots. Shots are easy, getting a cat to hold still and getting the freaking ear to bleed is far worse than the little stick of the insulin needle. When I adopted Autumn she was severely dehydrated so I had to give her sub-q fluids now that was a crow bar of a needle. @-) Even the lancets you use to test with are going to be bigger than the ones you use to give a shot with. Don't let the fact that one is female fool you, yes they are less likely to be diabetic but Autumn is very much a lady. ;-) And so were my two guardian angel diabetic cats Muse and Musette, as well as my foster girl Calley. We see just about as many females as males. The real trick in keeping diabetes away is a good diet that is high in protein and low in carbs and keeping the extra weight off them.. Cats should not be round, or at least that is what I keep trying to tell my civie Patches (a.k.a. Pudgely). And I have to tell you, because I would never have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, the ones that got the greatest benefit of a sugar cat in the house were my non-diabetics (civies) my guy with allergies had them disappear, my two guys with rough coats became as soft as bunnies and my two baby kittens are sleek and muscular and oh so soft to touch. They went straight from mom's milk to canned food and are stunning to look at, they get everyone to ooh and ahh over them when we go to the vet's because they are so sleek and shiny.
Mel and The Fur Gang
Mel and The Fur Gang
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
No I rotate where I inject, I have a system set up where I use the left side in the morning and the right side in the evenings. I also shoot anywhere from the scruff on down her sides.
Here is a picture of all the places you can give an injection
Any of those spots work just fine, Autumn is kinda picky about where she will let me shoot as she had a little run in with a gun before I adopted her so she has some scar tissue in her right shoulder and scruff area so I usually shoot her along her belly and flank. (she was shot in the face and neck long before she became my cat)
Mel and The Fur Gang
Here is a picture of all the places you can give an injection
Any of those spots work just fine, Autumn is kinda picky about where she will let me shoot as she had a little run in with a gun before I adopted her so she has some scar tissue in her right shoulder and scruff area so I usually shoot her along her belly and flank. (she was shot in the face and neck long before she became my cat)
Mel and The Fur Gang
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phlika29
Member Since 2014
corteza said:
I wouldn't worry about his age. My cat remi is 15 and the insulin doesn't stress him out at all. Trust me once you see him getting back to his old self it will be worth all the stress in the world. The members of this forum will be there to hold your hand and will stay with you if you are having trouble.
corteza said:
No you swap injection sites. I do the left side of remi in the morning and the right side in the evening. I think someone linked you some photos didn't they. I find remi stops eating if I come near him so our routine is to test blood glucose, give him the food, whilst he is eating I am drawing up the syringe, let him finish and then wait till he finishes licking and then I push him onto his side, lift his skin to create a small tent shape and then inject anyway on his side.
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Oh we are excellent at hand holding. And Miss Autumn is 18 and going strong so age isn't a factor at all. Plus Autumn was adopted after she was diabetic, and if there ever was a cat that should hate me for all the pokes and stickers it would be her, as I started testing her ears and giving her shots from the moment I first met her, and you know where she sleeps? With her head on my shoulder and her body curled up at my side purring like crazy. If she will form that kind of a bond with me who she didn't know from Eve when we started this journey think how much easier of a time your are going to have because your boy already knows and loves you.
Mel and The Fur Gang
Mel and The Fur Gang
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