SubQ questions, please

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Melissa&Paul-Kyle

Melissa&Paul-Kyle

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I have 3, 20 yr old +/- cats that have just come through a very seriuos bout of possibly giardia or coccidia (fecals were inconclusive, Vet dx on bloody/mucus liqui-poo and gobs of vomit, no appetite for 7 days!) All my 10 cats had this, and all are being treated, but only the oldest, sickest are getting subQ's.

2 of the 3 cats, Suze and Deb are Dx CRF...the 3rd, Timothy, WAS Dx CRF several years ago, but last years blood tests showed a "reversal"? Such marked improvement on values, Vet took CRF Dx off chart. Anywho- all were Rx subQ at some time or another, Vet said to make sure they are getting subQ now to replace fluid loss from liqui-poo and puke-age.

But now I am concerned and Vet has gone out of town for a week, and it is a weekend, so no one to ask.

The 3 oldies, Tim, Suze and Deb- they all seem like they need fluids- scruff stays tented when I pull it up....and when I shoot the 20-40ml once a day, depending on how poorly they look or how brave I feel, it does disappear pretty quick. Minutes. Deb's seem to disappear as I put it in.

Once a few days ago, Timothy's slipped down into his arm and stayed there...I was reading last night about SubQ's not being absorbed if the body is too sick to do so....so, maybe it wasn't that he was hydrated then, but sort of dying or something? His body was acting backward? The last few days fluids seem to disappear as I put them in.

Anyway, I am concerned that the fluid seems to disappear just 'cuz they are so skinny and saggy from weight loss and the suqids bump is just spreading out in her skin? Is that possible? What if I give too much fluid? Won't that mess up their electrolyte balance? How do I know if the squids is effecting their hearts? Nobody has been Dx with any heart ailment, but vet has not seen each one for some time. She Dx recent stuff with fecal (or lack thereof).

They are so old and frail- I just worry...Tim and Suze got 30ml + 2ml subQ dextrose this AM, Deb got 40ml, no dextrose (she is eating enough on her own).

All of it seemed to disappear within a few minutes in all 3 of them, and Tim and Deb have hovvered over water dish the last few days. Might be from upset tummy or different foods I am giving to get them to eat might have more salt than normal? Suze WAS hovering over water, but the last 2 days has settled back from it.

They all are getting Albon, and I was giving kaolin-pectalin to slow the diarrhea, as well as pro-pectalin as probiotic. Suze and Timothy have been getting NutriCal syringed as they JUST TODAY ate for the first time on their own in 9 days! Deb was getting syringed NutriCal but started eating on her own a few days ago (knockwood,antijinx)

Just could use some guidance on the fluids, please. I want to give 40-50ml a day each, but am so worried to give too much!

Thanks for your replies!
 
well. this is just my experience with subq fluids, but last year when my cat man needed major dental work, and had a serious mouth infection and wasn't eating/drinking in a few days, the vet sent him home with me for the weekend, with instructions to give him 100-150 ml of fluid at a time.

in the vets office he gave a 250ml bubble of fluid, and told me to do 100-150ml 2x a day.

now my cat was also very sick at the time, and his kidneys were shutting down, his bubble of fluid would disappear pretty quick too, but i also want to point at my cat is about 17-18lbs of lean cat mass, and 2-3lbs of cat fat. 'your cats might be smaller and not able to take as much fluid, but my kitty certainly did.
but you could probably up their fluids a bit, the 40-50 ml sounds reasonable. maybe even twice a day reasonable?
anyone else have any advice?

good luck, it sounds like you are doing good for your cats. the best you can do!
 
I would do it BID. cal is skinny and can handle 100cc. 20cc is like spitting in your cats eye, fluids will drop down leg or chest area depending on where injected. since CRF not terribly progressed, i would give more fluids especially since appear dehydrated.
the bump stays a bump and is absorbed as the body needs it. I would shoot for a total of 60-100 cc a day. or 120 if doing 60 BID

ya know this took a lot to type let alone reading your novel ;) . eyes better but still sore and watery. back to my dark corner
 
I had been giving my sisters cat subq for the last 6 weeks unfortunately she just lost her battle with CRF. She was a very small cat at only 70oz in weight. We were giving her 100 each day. Vet said we could go up to 150 and that we would know if we were giving her too much if the fluids started accumulating around the bottom of her feet. we did notice 1 day that she was showing some fluid retention around her ankles so we held off that day.
Hth
Cj
 
Can't answer, but wanted you to know I send prayers and good thoughts. What an amazing momma bean you are. I like Dian's answer to do bid. That way it doesn't overload the heart. What precious babies. Donna
 
When I was sub-Q'ing Simone, the fluids would make a lump in her armpit and stay for a few hours. I think she was getting 100 or 150 at a time, every other day.
 
thanks all of you for your replies. Every cat in my house is eating on his/her own now, thank God! Soild poo outweighs liqui-poo now, too. No pukes for 3 whole days now. Whew!

We have 4 days left of Albon and scrubbing sticky yellow goo off of every surface in the cat room, including my glasses, hair and shirt. gads.

I am continuing fluids for the oldest that were also the sickest, and will up to 50ml at least once a day until I can get some hands on Vetting done for them. I need to get blood tests for all and make sure we don't have heart stuff, too.

Other than poking them and making sore spots, I have no problem giving fluids BID and that is a good idea. If I see that one or more needs more than the 50ml, I'll shoot again in the evening and watch to make sure they are alright.

The hoveringof water dishes has subsided, too, so I think we'll be okay with 50ml until the Vet returns.

THANKS very much for your suggestions and experience!
 
Was looking for this update I had no experience to share but was sending prayers and good vibes out to you. Glad to see things are going better. You have my total admiration at your dedication.
God bless,
jeanne
 
Hi Melissa

I assume you mean 2mL of the dextrose solution (the farm animal product you linked to), not 2mL dextrose. I calculated how much dextrose was in the amount you said you gave, and it was quite low which made me feel better. Also, I assume your vet dispenses this regularly to small animals so his/her experience is worth something. In general, giving dextrose SQ is contraindicated because it can cause abscesses. But the sugar in small animal dextrose is much greater (500mg/mL).

I can't agree that a bit of SQ dextrose would help anyone gain weight, though.
 
All great advice above, but also wanted to mention one of the biggest things too much fluids is bad for, is if they have a heart condition. The heart works extra hard to absorb the fluids into the body.. so that was really the only concern when I was giving Cuddles fluids. She was getting 100ml SID every day for 2 years. Hers would settle in her chest. So as long as her chest was dry by the next time I gave fluids, the vet said it was enough. If it was still squishy, then hold off until you don't feel fluids down there anymore. Could be around the legs, chest, abdomen.. anywhere gravity will take it. ;-) But if her chest was dry a long time before the next fluids were due, then she needed more. Thankfully, they were all absorbed right around 24 hours.

I wouldn't think twice about giving 50-100ml to my cats if they needed it, provided they didn't have any kind of heart problems. When Misha (50 lb dog) was sick & not eating, my vet told me to give her 500ml of fluids! (half of a bag) :shock: THAT was quite the bulge on her scruff!
 
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