sub q fluids....Please Help

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sorry for the 911 but i need eyes now.
I have 120cc saline solution but that is with IV
My neighbor is a nurse and brought this over for dehydrated Tom...
Question is IV 120 cc is how much Sub Q? and does this question even make sense.
She is running over to her house to get it right now...
Please help...
 
Well 120cc is the same as 120 mls, which is 1/2 cup. The amount of "saline" is dependant on the concentration, and I am pretty sure that they are all the same. The bag will say the amount.
That will perk Tom up I am sure.
Dana
 
I have been looking for post for posts from you all day.
I don't know anything about sub q's but I am sending good vibes and big hugs.
I'm so sorry Lori.
 
Dearest Lori,

I only had brief experience with Sub-Q Ringers with Giz... It's a big a** needle; but, I know you'll handle it well.

Hang the bag on a door and just go for full flow... 100 whatevers should take slightly under two minutes depending on the size of the needle... I couldn't do flank, so went between the shoulder blades...

Keeping you both close in my heart and prayers. Tom could just be needing a little boost is all...

Much love and continued hopeful, healing, hungry hugs,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, who taught me all about full flow...
 
Lori , I have been following you and Tom over the last week. I give fluids to Kitty daily. If you have any questions regarding administration that I can help with, please ask.

Kim
 
40 minutes after the sub-q SYRINGing of Tom....his golf ball size bulge on his scruff is gone but I pet him and my hand was wet....and it was blood, with an expose hole in his neck. is this ok?
 
I don't understand.
You were giving him the sub q fluids with a syringe?
How big is the hole?
That doesn't sound good to me.
Is it possible he got in a fight and has an injury? Maybe that is why he hasn't been feeling well? I had another cat awhile back, Callie Mae's *brother* from a different litter--whatever--you know what I'm talking about. Anyway. I noticed he was hanging out behind the TV for a while, which was not normal for him. He didn't want to come out or anything. Not interested in food, playing, getting loved on, anything. I noticed his nose warm and couldn't handle it anymore after a day. Pulled him out from behind the TV and started loving all over him and found a wound. Don't know how long he had it, it looked fresh, but had become infected. Vet put him on AB and he was back to his usual self in a matter of days.
Maybe something similar could be going on with Tom?
 
hi beachin, no, no fight. we did use the great big needle and syringe to sub q him.....I got the ok to do this from tuckers mom, jenn. my neighbor is a nurse and this is how humans get the sub q.
he has the hole from the large needle.
 
Hummm.
Maybe that big needle just went in a little to far or perhaps you just hit a *not so sweet* spot.
Poor guy.
Well, we all bleed when we get poked. And hell, we purposefully poke our babies to make them bleed, so hopefully he will be ok. Just a big, little prick.
Hopefully the fluids will make him feel better.

Still sending prayers and well wishes.

Angela and Callie Mae

Callie says
Mawl, meow. Mewl mulm.
Whatever that means.
 
lori and tom said:
we did use the great big needle and syringe to sub q him.....I got the ok to do this from tuckers mom, jenn. my neighbor is a nurse and this is how humans get the sub q.

Lori, you took Tom to the vet by now right? The vet didn't rx the SQ fluids? What was his bloodwork like? Did his physical exam show anything? Did you get a urinalysis too? What was the diagnosis?
 
We have always used the humongous syringe to get sub q's into Thomas. I am sure that he will be peppier soon, if it was fluids that he was needing.
Dana and my Thomas
 
When I give Kitty fluids, I use an iv line and needle from the bag. So, my needle probably isn't as big as what you used--but, the fluids always have some drainage back out of the hole. You have to pinch the area after removing the needle for a "few" seconds to seal off the area and allow the fluids to go in or they will drain out more. Kitty is always wet on her back from drainage after giving the fluids.

Sometimes there is some blood from the needle also, but normally not a lot---like I said though my needle is very small--so, you probably will get more bleeding with larger needle.

Hope this helps.

Kim
 
I wish i had seen this sooner. I've been giving Bob sub q ringers (100cc) regularly for weeks. You had to use a syringe and inject manually? Yikes.. i have been using a bag and drip tubewith an 18 gauge needle. It took (like someone already said) about two minutes each time. I'm so glad I didn't have ro wirry about trying to control the speed using a plunger. The bleeding thing has only happened once with bob and that one time much of the fluid.did leak out. I still don't know what was.different that one time. If i had seen this sooner i eould have pm'd you and tried to get on the phone to talk you thru it.
Keep an eye on him because he may need more tomorrow or the next day if dehydration is the problem. I'd also try to get him to the vet asap to find out the underlying cause of the dehydration. Are you also currently using insulin sub q? If so you will want to not be shooting the insulin in the same area as the fluids and will need to use another spot. Lots of people here use areas on the cat's sides and they can tell you where and how.
Hope your kitty is doing better real soon!
Carl in SC
 
Nevermind. I just read your other thread and obviously you know what you're doing. But i'd still ask the vet for a bag tube and needle kit so you can rehydrate a lot easier if needed again.
carl
 
Thank you everyone who is offering their support during this difficult time for us.
Jess, the vet appointment was made at 4pm on fri. for a 5:15 apt. I had everything in the car and was prepared to leave. Tom was out back. I've told this story before. He had'nt eaten in I forgot how long, too long. Soon as I called him he came marching down the hill, trooper that he is. The door he comes in thru is in my bedroom. He marched into the house and I followed behind him and guess what?
Went straight to the, by then 5 different food bowls and began chowing down. This was such a shock, and so wonderful that I was not about to interrupt it. I called the vet and said he was eating quite heartily at the moment and I would like to postpone.
Well, he did'nt eat again much after that...but I held hope. Occasionally their is some eating.

He does seem alot better since the sub q. The nurse who lives next door to me did it. He sat very well for her...that is just who he is. I stopped her at 25 u I think. That was 2 and a half cigar size syringes. She was going to give him 4 syringes worth but I was afraid. It was our first time and I just got nervous. I thought even if it's not alot it was better than none.

He does look better. Eating what I finger feed him....at times tonight.
I guess we are at the vet tomorrow. If for no other reason than I have to get the sub q's for myself and start doing him.

Thanks everyone. No one I suppose suspects their seemingly healthy cat will turn coat in just a day and become an anorexic. It happened and took my breath away and how quickly Tom went downhill.
He never stopped his 5 P's....even today he spent time loving on the banana from Althea.
He just has'nt looked well.
And it's funny, when Tom looses interest in meal time....I find it hard to know myself what time it is.
And folks, the saddest sound to hear is the opening of a cat food can not immediately followed by a cat appearing and meowing his approval. He does'nt even come to the kitchen. That is one sad lonely can opening!

Love and Hugs,
Lori
Tom is currently sleeping next to me.
 
I'm glad to hear you will be at the vet tomorrow with him, he needs a doctor, he needs to feel better. Please don't let anything stop you from taking him this time. Keep us posted.
 
I will Jess, I will get him in.
And Karen, 25u may not be much....but it sure looked like alot. And there was a lump forming in his scruff where she was shooting him.
The lump made me nervous. She told me he could take more...but respectfully stopped as soon as I asked her to. I guess I better get over it!
 
Hi - sorry if this is a duplicate post - tried earlier and think I lost it.

When you get fluids from the vet, you can ask for a smaller needle (higher gauge, like a 20 or 22) instead of the 18 gauge that they usually give. It takes a little longer for the fluid to run in, but the smaller needle is so much more comfortable that my cat didn't mind the whole thing as much. I was giving Argyle up to 100 mL a day (usually 50 mL in the morning and evening). With a 20 gauge needle, the 50 mL took less than 10 minutes. It was time to just sit together and hang out (because if I didn't hold the needle in, Argyle would just get up and walk off in the middle of everything...)

Jackie
 
Lori, if you get the subq items from the vet, I asked the woman who was there yesterday to show you how to massage the area as your giving fluids to prevent the big bulge of fluid. If you massage as the fluids go in, they absorb faster and you don't have the hump back look which made you feel nervous.

Please keep us posted on the vet appt today.
 
Thinking of you and hoping everything turns out ok. I will miss prayer lunch today due to sitting here at home getting the a/c fixed, but will pray myself. Cedric is at the office where it is cool, but he sends his hugs!
 
Lori,

Please keep us updated on how the vet visit goes today, DH and I are sending our prayers for Lord Thomas and the Fur Gang are sending purrs, and whisker kisses, as well as a few sloppy wet drooler kisses that the vetty bean will be a wise one and get Thomas feeling absolutely purrfect in no time flat.

Hugs,
Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang.
 
Jenn, Sue (neighbor, the nurse) did tell me to massage the bulge. When I failed to do it....what's WRONG with me????? she went ahead and massage him real well. Still the lump remained. I asked her if he would feel good right away and she said it takes a few hours to rehydrate the cells.
She said he did appear quite dehydrated as he had no 'fluff' to his skin...just flat and dull.

It amazes me that with as little food as Tom has in him he still follows all his rountines. This morning he skipped breffis, but went out to secure and patrol the property, dug a few holes, came in and played with his cat nip banana, let me love on him while purring LOUDLY.

As good a boy as he is, as tolerant as he is of every single thing I put him thru (never cried or moved when the BIG needle went in, which amazed the nurse) He will be terrified of going to the vet.
He will pee and poo on himself. He will cling to me with his nails. I will be calm and shed my tears quietly out of his line of vision. The vet will have to unhinge him from me.

Tom who fears NOTHING, no dog, no cat, no intruders....is terrified by the vet.
And so am I.

Hugs all of you.
Why are'nt you here with us?????????

Lori
 
We are there with you sweetie, just not in physical form. All you have to do is reach out to us with your heart and you will feel our love and support pouring through you, like so many invisible silken strands of a spider web, reaching out over the miles that separate us physically to hold you and Thomas and bind you too us. You know the power of this board, you know you never walk alone, that while you can't see us, we are there, lending you our strength.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette and The Fur Gang
 
Do you have some Rescue Remedy? You can use that to help calm him before the trip. Does he like catnip? If you don't have RR, you could get him stoned with some catnip first.

When giving subq, if you massage the area where the needle is inserted as the fluid goes in, you can avoid the lump. Tucker was always a dream so massaging the area with one hand and holding the bag with the other was easy with him, I'd imagine for some kitties it would not be so simple.

When is your appt?
 
Jenn I have the spray feliway...
Tom has no experience with it as of yet (unlike me :roll: ) so I don't know how well it will work.
Our appointment is at 4:30
Thank you Jenn for talking to the nurse....I felt much better since she is a human nurse knowing we got the ok from you.
Mel, check your pm's.
Lori
 
Well I'm no expert but I have seen the butterfly technique done and when a cat is dehydrated it's important to get fluids.

While you're at the vet, since he's having issues with hydration, make sure electrolytes are checked.
 
Tom keeps acting like he wants something...is asking me for something...but whatever I give him is not it. He goes to the kitchen and I offer him everything but the kitchen sink and it's not it. He comes to me and WANTS but I can't figure out what he wants. I just know he WANTS.
 
Hey Lori,

Is it possible that Tom has lost his sense of smell? Even though he is asking for food, when he gets it, it doesn't smell the same so he snubs it? As you know, kitty crack smells good to them...gets them hooked, so it seems like a safe bet for him? Kinda like when us humans get a cold and our nose is stuffed up...we crave our favorite comfort foods, but when we taste them, they all seem "blah", because our sense of smell is gone. IDK....just throwing out ideas. Do you warm up his food? Tried sardines? All I do know is that I am thinking of you and Tom, sending you warm hugs, love, support and strength from Nova Scotia!
 
Dearest Lori,

lori and tom said:
Tom keeps acting like he wants something...is asking me for something...but whatever I give him is not it. He goes to the kitchen and I offer him everything but the kitchen sink and it's not it. He comes to me and WANTS but I can't figure out what he wants. I just know he WANTS.
Put out the whole damn menu. Sprinkle everything with parmesan. Actually, Giz eventually preferred romano, if that helps...

Is there a Trader Joe's somewhere between you and Tom's vet? Lisa -- and Merlyn, forever in our hearts -- said TJ's cat food tuna is so stinky, she had to evacuate her apartment...

Keeping you both close in hearts and prayers. You just keep us posted, okay?

Much love and please remember to breathe kind of hugs,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, who taught me all about menus...
 
lori and tom said:
Tom who fears NOTHING, no dog, no cat, no intruders....is terrified by the vet.
And so am I.

Hugs all of you.
Why are'nt you here with us?????????

Lori

OOOh, I'd come in a heart beat. Beach, nice weather, and make you go to Disneyland for the day to cheer you up. Since I have a magic card that enables me and 3 people to get in free w/me! ;-)
you would have to ride all the great rides and be forced to endure IT'S A SMALL WORLD! Are you laughing yet?

And as for that Kitchen Sink:

http://allears.net/menu/menu_bc.htm

:YMHUG:
 
Utterly Emotionally Exhausted...will write more later. Don't know much yet...Tending to Tom right now.
Lori
 
Take care of yourself and Mister Handsome and we will just have to wait for the updates...just know we are standing by with prayers and hugs.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang.
 
well my first attempt to sub q myself did not go well.
tom cried....he never crys....he did not cry when the nurse or the vet did it.
I pulled it out too quickly and it was a water gun squirting everywhere.
I stupidly put my finger over the needle to stop it.....ouch, now I'm bleeding and stinging and fluid is squirting.
I finally got it turned off.
help?
why is he crying when I do it? he seemed fine the other 2 times.
 
Lori,
Here's the trick the vet showed me. I've done this sub-q 100cc thing 30 times in the past 9 weeks...
I scruff the cat with the last three fingers of my left hand, and make the "tent" with my forefinger and thumb. Then, just before you stick the needle in, "shake" the tented skin pretty good and when you stop for an instant, slide the needle in. As long as you are tented high enough, and parallet to his spine/body, all you'll be touching will be the outer skin when the needle goes in. Then I don't let go with my left hand. I turn the drip all the way up with my right hand, and then sort of rest it back on the plastic end of the needle to make sure it's still all the way in. Then while still scruffing him, I talk to him and scratch him under the chin and rub his head to distract him.
I do all of this sitting on the floor with my legs circled around Bob. His head is about level with my left knee and most of the time, he'll just lay there and rest his chin on my leg and purr. A couple of times he has tried to get away, and that scared the hell out of me. Once he pulled the needle loose and I had the same flood you experienced. Luckily I grabbed for the shut off instead of the needle. I was surprised how far and fast the liquid shoots out too. A couple of times, Bob has cried. Once when I stuck the needle in, and once when I guess I didn't have a good spot and I think that pocket filled before the 100 ccs finished dripping. I let him have his way that time and just shut it off after 74 ccs or so. I've also had one incident where he laid down right afterwards while waiting for his cut-up shrimp, and when he got up, there was a good sized pinkish puddle where he'd been laying. That one time, he did bleed just a little. Every other time, it's gone really well though. Usually you'll get some leakage but not a whole lot. I saw you massaged it, or the nurse did, after shooting. I've never tried that only because Bob doesn't seem to mind looking like a camel. Also, it gives me a better idea how quickly or slowly the fluids are being absorbed if I just leave him alone.
Just like ear pricking and insulin shots, this gets easier each time, for you and for Tom. I know you've been at this a whole lot longer than I have, but the sub q fluids, I've got a good bit of practice at. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

Carl in SC
 
Lori, it will get better, promise. The first time you try you are nervous, and that makes it that much harder because the cat picks up on your stress too. I've only done subQ with syringes a few times, when I had run out of IV sets. My other attempts were all done with IV bags and a line. If you go to the vet tomorrow, please ask for those as using syringes is expensive since you should not reuse them. An IV setup will make your life much easier. Syringes can work, but you have to control the syringe to keep it level and also control flow, and it is a lot to handle with a squirming cat. Also, if you warm the fluids some it makes it also a bit kinder for the kitty, since even if the room is warm, the fluids are a lot cooler than the cat's body. When I first learned how to do these, I did a ton of reading and watching videos which helped a lot to build my confidence. Below are some good links with pictures and videos. Most of these are geared to IV administration, which I hope you'll try to get set up tomorrow. I'd suggest trying lactated ringers (no dextrose!) if you get fluids tomorrow unless there is a particular reason for using regular saline. Sorry I didn't see your posts earlier.
http://www.weirdstuffwemake.com/weird/stuff/pets/cats/sophia/catjuice.html
http://partnersah.vet.cornell.edu/Cat-Owners-Guide-Kidney-Disease/Subcutaneous-Fluid-Therapy
http://marvistavet.com/html/subcutaneous_fluids.html
http://www.fabcats.org/owners/kidney/subcutaneous/info.html
http://www.felinecrf.org/giving_sub-qs_syringe.htm(this shows pictures of a syringe method, but there are good pictures of other methods too along with a ton of information on fluid therapy in general)

Will keep you and Tom in my prayers.

PS: Forgot to add these! If Tom is a wiggler, try the clothes pin trick. It works! Looks weird, but it works.
http://www.felinecrf.org/subcutaneous_fluids_tips.htm#clothes_peg_trick
http://www.felinecrf.org/subcutaneous_fluids_tips.htm (lots of other tips on how to deal with issues like where to put the needle, bleeding afterwards, the fluid pouch, etc.)
 
Oh, Lori, my post assumed you were using the IV bag and tube setup like the above post says. I knew you'd done the syringe thing a couple nights ago but figured you got set up with the IV stuff when you went to the vet yesterday. The process I described uses the IV bag, lactate ringers w/potassium added, a shut off in the line, and an 18 gauge replace-every-time needle.

Carl
 
I am using the bag now...and he is supposed to get it everyday. 150 units.....
 
Are you warming the fluids before giving them.

Be sure to insert the needle bevel side up.

A bag of fluids, IV line and 20ga Terumo needles are easier than a syringe
 
can you do 75 twice or does it have to be all at once? I was thinking once on the right side and once on the left maybe? two small humps instead of one big one.
carl
 
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