stragey help for rollie vetsulin march

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Renee1960

Renee1960

Member Since 2016
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/vetsulin-advice.174324/
Ok am doing my curve today and the results are not what i've expected. I've linked my first post to this one. I am wondering what my strategy should be for the coming week? I got some tiki cat this weekend and have been feeding that since last night. i am working on getting a urine sample to test. His numbers just aren't very good today. @Tuxedo Mom @Squalliesmom @Kris & Teasel @JanetNJ @MrWorfMen's Mom @Alexi @scoobydoox @Critter Mom
 
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I am wondering if Rollie went lower last night leading to that higher AMPS this morning because he has had a nice drop of 200+ points as of +6 today. If you can get some readings during the evening cycle before bed, it should give you a clue as to how fast and how far he is dropping. For now, I'd stick with 3.25u for another day or so, to make sure any bouncing has cleared and get some evening cycle readings to see what he's up to. If after a couple more doses at 3.25u, he stays in the yellows or goes higher, you can up the dose to 3.5u. The problem is that you don't want to increase while Rollie is bouncing because that just sets off more bouncing and makes it impossible to see exactly what a particular dose is doing. It looks to me like he bounced after that 186 on the 11th and that may not have totally cleared by last night so if he hit another lower unfamiliar reading last night, then the bounce has just been extended. You can't force these guys into good numbers. Slow and steady wins the race and honestly I think today's curve is looking encouraging.
 
I agree with Linda (MrWorfMen's Mom), and second her advice to stick with the 3.25 dose for a couple of days, to make sure he has cleared the bounce. Today's curve is definitely encouraging! :):cat:
 
it really doesn't look bad... you are ALMOST in the blues. I'm confused by that 186 the other day. I'm wondering if that was an incorrect reading.... like if the drop was too small. that seems like a steep drop in two hours. the curve today looks like what i'd expect. keep where you are another day and if you aren't getting low enough bump it up to 3.5.
 
thank you all! i was discouraged but you all have encouraged me. I guess my question now is if he gets in the blues then we are doing ok? what about the high preshot numbers? or is that something he will always have?
 
Renee1960 said:
thank you all! i was discouraged but you all have encouraged me. I guess my question now is if he gets in the blues then we are doing ok? what about the high preshot numbers? or is that something he will always have?
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It is not unusual to see higher pre-shot numbers with Vetsulin, but you may see them come down some when the rest of his numbers start to stay lower.
 
ok we will keep on this dose for a day or two and see what happens. his amps this morning was 400 :(
 
That's not unusual. Many cats go lower at night and Rollie got down to 215 at +5 and could have gone a bit lower last night if he had a later nadir. Look at how much he dropped Sunday between +5 and +6. His body has to get re-familiarized with lower numbers so staying the course for the moment is best.
 
Renee1960 said:
I got some awesome numbers last night!! +5 was 100 and +6 was 86. This morning though we are back to 411.
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The 411 is probably a bit of a bounce from from the lower numbers, earlier. His body isn't used to seeing those low numbers so his liver dumped a whole bunch of glycogen into his system in a mistaken attempt to keep him safe.
 
i was feeding the paw licken chcken but this weekend i got green eggs and chicken and nine liver. i also got some tiki cat. he doesn't seem to like the tuna and crab but does like the tilapia!
 
ok - his +5 this morning is at 270. is it possible that he's still staying high from going lower last night? Thanks!!
 
It sure is! This is the hard part of dealing with the diabetes. Some cats tend to bounce more than others. That is still a good drop today and it may take a few cycles to clear this bounce and come back down again so patience is the name of the game. It's frustrating but this is a marathon not a sprint. :)
 
ok!! thank you! i was so happy with last night and then today kind of burst my bubble but we will keep on this dose and see what happens! thank you for the encouragement and advice!
 
Know the feeling all too well! While kitty is just chilling, we humans are scratching our heads as to what is going on... thinking we are doing something wrong when in fact, what we are seeing is just normal biological function. With time, we all get to the point where each number is just a number whether high or low. It's the patterns over time that become meaningful and provide clues as to whether dose needs to be kept the same, increased or decreased.
 
Rollie could have gone lower at +3 to +4 post shot and then his system kicked in to bring numbers back up to what he is used to. Is there any way you can get a test tonight around +3 to see what he's up to? Normal nadir with Vetsulin is often earlier than +5. Getting random tests between +2 and +6 instead of always doing a +5 will give you more clues as to what is happening. I'm betting it's a bounce too.
 
That drop from 409 to 259 in 3 hours and then to 245 in four hours is quite the drop. Drops like that can trigger bounces which lead to the higher pre-shot numbers. Hopefully as he becomes more accustomed to the lower numbers mid cycle, the pre-shot numbers will come down a bit too.
 
ok! this morning was 329. so i should just continue on with this dose then right and see if he stabilizes? Thanks!
 
Renee1960 said:
ok! this morning was 329. so i should just continue on with this dose then right and see if he stabilizes? Thanks!
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Three days ago this dose gave you a nice green. He's been bouncing since then so the effectiveness of the dose has been obscured. It can take up to 3 days (sometimes more) for bouncing to stop. Maybe give the 3.25 u again today and see what numbers he gives you. Tomorrow might be time to try 3.5 u if numbers warrant.
 
Sorry for the delay getting back to you. Given the lower AMPS this morning, I think you did the right thing sticking with the same dose. That said, it looks like Rollie may need a bit more juice (insulin). My personal rule with my girl is to only do dose increases when I can monitor closely. I agree with Kris that taking him up to 3.5u tomorrow if you can monitor may be in order but let's see what his numbers look like.
 
alrighty! i won't be able to get another reading until shot time but will monitor tonight a few times. Thanks!!
 
You don't want Rollie to go below 90-100 unless you are there to monitor very closely as that level of BG if it occurs shortly before nadir suggests a possibility of Rollie going too low and may need some intervention on your part to prevent a hypo episode. The normal BG using a human meter for a cat is 50 to 120 but with a diabetic on insulin, you can aim a little higher without any adverse effect on your kitty. Nadirs don't occur at exactly the same time every day but usually you can get a pretty good idea of when it occurs. So if you can get Rollie dropping into the low 100's for a good portion of every cycle, he'll be in good shape. You want to keep his BG below renal threshold (sugar spilling into the urine) as much as possible and that threshold while different for each cat is somewhere between 250 and 280. Just remember, this is a case of gradually taking his BG down so his body doesn't panic and bounce.
 
he was 408 this morning. i didn't go up in dosage as i was unsure of what to do. do i need to go up? last night like i said earlier we did get in the blue
 
I'd take him up to 3.5u and monitor through the expected low period of the cycle ( between +2 and +6) to see where that takes him. That 408 may be another bounce from that blue last night but I think he does need a little more insulin. Until he gets more regulated and predictable (stops bouncing quite so much), I'd hold doses for a few cycles to get an idea of how low he goes on each dose. Janet has provided a sliding scale which can work well for some cats (Janet's cat went into remission!) but you must also take into consideration how low any particular dose takes Rollie so I would suggest if you go that route, be prepared to monitor closely through a couple of cycle at each dose.
 
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