Still need help...Pumbaa down to 38

Status
Not open for further replies.
Pumbaa

Pumbaa

Member Since 2012
What do I do? I tested him about 20 minutes ago, and gave him some food, but don't know whether I should do a big chicken shot, or what.

Twenty minutes after the first test and some food (Friskies Turkey & Giblets) he's up to 108. That is probably the food kicking in.

I'm thinking about shooting 1.5U instead of the normal fat 2.0U.

UPDATE:

AMPS = 389
+6 = 119
+9 = 86
+10 = 90
PMPS = 81
Gave some food = normal food, Friskies pate, turkey & giblets, 7% carbs.
20 minutes later = 108 (food spike)
Gave a BCS of 1.5U one hour after his normal shot time.
Gave more Friskies turkey & giblets with some parmesan.
+1 after injection = 82
Gave Trader Joe's Tuna for Cats - not sure the exact %Kcal from carbs, but I know it's extremely high protein, low in fat and carbs.

ANOTHER UPDATE:
+2.25 after injection - Pumbaa down to 38. He was just tormenting Larry, the civie, about 30 minutes ago. I gave him some Friskies Whitefish & Sardines in Sauce, which used to be his favorite canned food. He ignored it, and went to eat his other normal food. I put some honey on his tongue, and will test him in about 15 minutes. I'm happy that he's showing no signs of being hypo, and that he was still interested in eating, just not eating the higher carbed food I gave him.

9:45 pm: still at 38. No change 15 minutes after the initial honey given. Gave more honey, and rubbed it on his gums. He still ate more of his normal food after this. Showing no signs of hypoglycemia.

Are we having fun yet? *LOL*

ANOTHER UPDATE:

+3 after injection = 56. That's the honey kicking in. But just now, he was, again, eating more of his low carb food. Concentrating on the high-protein tuna with some parmesan sprinkled on top. Still not showing any signs of being hypo, other than the fact that he wasn't running from me when I went to grab him for a test, and was sitting at the back patio door watching the bugs attracted to the outside light. That is normal for him this time of night. Maybe he's just one of those cats who function well at a really low BG level?

So, since he had only been upped to a fat 2.0, instead of going back up to 2.25U, does this reward him with a dose decrease back to 2.0U or 1.75U? Maybe I did the fat 2.0U before he had cleared his bounces. If he would just stop bouncing and diving, it would be so much easier to predict the correct dose! Sheesh!


+5 PM UPDATE:
Pumbaa is now up to 362. *sigh* I so don't know how much of that is the honey he received, or just a bounce from his low of 38.

In any case, I guess I get to go to bed now.
 
Re: Help - Pumbaa PMPS = 81 +10 was 90

Let's see what the old hands say.

But I'd say you have lots of data, and plus one would be blue anyway. So shoot the fat 2.0 as long as you can watch him for a few?

Maybe a chicken shot would be a plain 2.0?
 
Re: Help - Pumbaa PMPS = 81 +10 was 90

Hmmm depends....got time to stay with him and keep testing? Got plenty of strips and HC food ready to go encase you have to steer his drops? If so, go ahead and shoot, just make sure to get a +2 or +3 test, remember onset is normally around those times for most cats..have looked over Pumbaa's SS in awhile so not sure when his onset is exactly. But this is what you have been working for, you want a dose that will keep him in normal healing numbers all day and night long without dropping too low.

Or then again it could be that he just wants company tonight and likes it when you are sleep deprived.. :lol:

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: Help - Pumbaa PMPS = 81 +10 was 90

I did the 1.5U chicken shot, but will still keep watching him. I think I'm going to change his name to "Diver Dan". Hahahaha!
 
Re: Help - Pumbaa PMPS = 81 +10 was 90

And might be an early morning with another batch of greens right before AMPS?
 
Re: Help - Pumbaa PMPS = 81 +10 was 90

MommaOfMuse said:
Or then again it could be that he just wants company tonight and likes it when you are sleep deprived.. :lol:
Click to expand...

haha_smiley

I think he loves when I have to chase him around the house at night to catch him for a test. Just went and closed my bedroom door because getting him out from under the bed is exhausting!

You know how cats react to the sound of a can opener...because sometimes their food has to be opened with the can opener? Well, Pumbaa now knows that when the microwave only works for 15 seconds, it's his rice sock in there and an ear prick is imminent. And he hides. So tonight, trying to outsmart a cat, I caught him first and when I was holding him, I put the rice sock in the microwave.
 
Re: Help - Pumbaa PMPS = 81 +10 was 90

Dale 'n' Chip said:
And might be an early morning with another batch of greens right before AMPS?
Click to expand...

Or, at the rate "Diver Dan" has been going, he'll be getting carbs tonight which will throw him into bounce mode, which will mean I'll get to sleep tomorrow night.

Good thing I have a comfy sofa to nap on in between tests, and my cell phone has an alarm. Unfortunately, in the wee hours of the morning, sometimes the alarm doesn't wake me up!
 
Yep, still up and testing regularly. I can't believe he dropped down to 38 with what, and how much, he has been eating tonight. I also can't believe he turned down his previously favorite higher carbed canned food, the whitefish and sardines in sauce!

I am thankful that he's showing NO signs of hypoglycemia.
 
Pumbaa said:
ANOTHER UPDATE:
+2.25 after injection - Pumbaa down to 38. He was just tormenting Larry, the civie, about 30 minutes ago. I gave him some Friskies Whitefish & Sardines in Sauce, which used to be his favorite canned food. He ignored it, and went to eat his other normal food. I put some honey on his tongue, and will test him in about 15 minutes. I'm happy that he's showing no signs of being hypo, and that he was still interested in eating, just not eating the higher carbed food I gave him.

Are we having fun yet? *LOL*
Click to expand...
He should be heading for blue soon just because of the normal pattern? So just keep testing.

What I think is the safest thing to do in that scenaro with Lantus is to shoot the normal dose at the normal time to keep the shed stable. My green nightmare was the same thing as yours. I did a 75% chicken shot (at the normal time) and it dumped the shed for Chip's only greens on Lantus so far. It seems stalling (same as reduced shot) token shot, or missed shot/fur shot, may go lower in the short term, because Lantus seems to dump the shed, followed by a big bounce.

There is one other thing MammaOfMuse has taught me and that is to fear (lower) greens a little less.

Stay on top of it and if you test 24 or lower, then put up a 911 somewhere for more help. But he should be pulling out of it soon.
 
Dale 'n' Chip said:
He should be heading for blue soon just because of the normal pattern? So just keep testing.

What I think is the safest thing to do in that scenaro with Lantus is to shoot the normal dose at the normal time to keep the shed stable. My green nightmare was the same thing as yours. I did a 75% chicken shot (at the normal time) and it dumped the shed for Chip's only greens on Lantus so far. It seems stalling (same as reduced shot) token shot, or missed shot/fur shot, may go lower in the short term, because Lantus seems to dump the shed, followed by a big bounce.

There is one other thing MammaOfMuse has taught me and that is to fear (lower) greens a little less.

Stay on top of it and if you test 24 or lower, then put up a 911 somewhere for more help. But he should be pulling out of it soon.
Click to expand...

Had Pumbaa been in the 100s and falling, I would have shot his normal dose. But I didn't feel comfortable doing that tonight, and for good reason, as it turns out. I hate changing the dosage and messing with the shed, due to low pre-shot numbers, but before tonight, Pumbaa had never had a green pre-shot, and especially not one where his numbers were still dropping. Very difficult decision to make tonight, that is for sure. But I tried to err in favor of Pumbaa not going hypo. I still can't believe he went as low as 38!

I pray that when I test him again for his +4 he is up in the blue, due to his eating, and not just due to the honey I gave him.

If he wasn't such a bouncer and diver, as you understand, this wouldn't be an issue. He went from 389 for his AMPS to 38 today! Talk about keeping us on our toes!

Suze
 
Hi Suze,
I can't be much help with dosing since I'm a PZIer, but wanted to let you know someone was watching...

So, since he had only been upped to a fat 2.0, instead of going back up to 2.25U, does this reward him with a dose decrease back to 2.0U or 1.75U?
Well, I'm thinking it would mean a fat 1.75? ;-)

Carl
 
Thank you for checking in, Carl, and giving your input, which you know I treasure.

Pumbaa is in my office right now and being feisty, which means he feels great!

I think a fat 1.75U might be the dose for the morning. And I am fully prepared for some pink numbers in the morning, due to how low he got tonight.

I just wish that bounces were easier to figure out, especially when they have ended. Maybe it's just me still not able to read Pumbaa's numbers accurately, and dance his dance.

Suze
 
Feisty is good!
I know the one thing that made an impression on me on the very first day my vet showed me how to home test (Relion Micro) that got stuck in my head and never went away was her telling me "Remember, your meter reads about 30 points lower than a "real meter". LOL. I know that isn't 100% true, and meters don't vary by the same amount every test, or all across the BG ranges. But anytime Bob would give me a green number, I'd think "well, that 60 is really a 90, so I'm okay...." Of course, I wasn't "here" then, so I was blissfully ignorant. The lowest number I ever caught was a 42 (no idea how often I missed a low number). It sort of freaked me out, then that little voice said "nah, it's a 72, I'm good". I never saw any sign that Bob was "hypo", not any clinical sign anyway. But I was at work for a whole lot of nadirs too.

What's the latest number you have, or when is the next test?
Carl
 
The problem was the nadir was shifted right into PMPS. Thanks Lantus for that. Right now he is at his widest green stretch to date. Actually that's what you're aiming for but the first time you see a number that low is unnerving.

I still think the hour long stall and the reduced dose freaked the shed. So now things might be crazy for a few cycles.

Wonder if his two green stretches for the day slid together in the center? :?
 
Carl:

Normal, feisty mode for Pumbaa tells me that he could survive at much lower numbers than the "50" in his normal life, pre-FD. I wish I would have had a reading of his BG levels before he became diabetic.

I think what your vet was telling you was that human meters read 30 points lower than animal meters. And I have had it beaten into my head that human meters have a +/- 20% accuracy rate, so Pumbaa's 38 low tonight could have been a 30 or it could have been a 45.6. In either case it was too low, and deserves a dose reduction. :)

Just tested at +4 after his injection with the Big Chicken Shot of 1.5U, and he's up to 92. Pumbaa keeps eating low-carb, high-protein food every time I test him, so I pray that the 92 isn't just due to the honey I gave him twice when he was down to 38. Looks like I'll be up for hours yet, watching over him and testing him, to make sure he doesn't dive again.

It cracks me up that, when I turned my life around and started working at night and trying to sleep during the day, to accommodate Pumbaa having lower numbers at night, he decided to have lower numbers during the day. I swear he just doesn't want me to sleep, ever, while it's okay for him to sleep 16 hours a day! *LMAO*

Suze
 
The honey was about 2 hours ago? I think the 92 is more from the real food than the honey still sticking around, so that's a plus. If there's one "advantage" to a P insulin, it when it comes to something like this. Prozinc kitties who go low, once they start back up due to HC or LC food, tend to stay up, so we don't seem to have to "nurse" these dives like L kitties have to be. These L lows can linger for hours (at least the few I've watched as they happen).
It may be that you have to set your alarm for "catnaps" for a few hours while Pumbaa does his normal 18 hours of naps per day!

Carl
 
Dale 'n' Chip said:
The problem was the nadir was shifted right into PMPS. Thanks Lantus for that. Right now he is at his widest green stretch to date. Actually that's what you're aiming for but the first time you see a number that low is unnerving.

I still think the hour long stall and the reduced dose freaked the shed. So now things might be crazy for a few cycles.

Wonder if his two green stretches for the day slid together in the center? :?
Click to expand...


Chippendale's:

Yes about the nadir. Sometimes Pumbaa has a 6 hour nadir, and other times he seems to have a nadir at +6, but then drops again for the PMPS. I don't get it! For today's morning cycle, when I saw that at +9 he was in dive mode, I tested him again at +10, and was pleased that he was going up, as he should have been. So the PMPS number shocked me.

Yes, I want wide green and blue stretches, but none of this dropping to below the 50s (terra cotta backgrounds). And not a green dropping number at the PS point.

To me, it seemed like "Diver Dan" decided to hit the green and keep going down, because he liked it down there. I don't blame him if he feels better down there, but I wish he would have stopped before dropping to 38 and causing me to give him carbs to bring him back up and cause a bounce to occur.

I'm sure the stall and the reduced dose and forced honey will cause repercussions over the next couple of days, but that's okay. Better that than having him die from a hypo episode!

I have a love and hate relationship with green these days. :)

Suze
 
Carl & Bob in SC said:
The honey was about 2 hours ago? I think the 92 is more from the real food than the honey still sticking around, so that's a plus. If there's one "advantage" to a P insulin, it when it comes to something like this. Prozinc kitties who go low, once they start back up due to HC or LC food, tend to stay up, so we don't seem to have to "nurse" these dives like L kitties have to be. These L lows can linger for hours (at least the few I've watched as they happen).
It may be that you have to set your alarm for "catnaps" for a few hours while Pumbaa does his normal 18 hours of naps per day!

Carl
Click to expand...

The honey was given about 1.25 hours before the last test results of 92 at +4. I'll be testing again at +5 and +6 and + infinity if need to, and if my cell phone alarm wakes me up from my necessary naps! :)

While "L" insulins have their positives, ProZinc is much more flexible and allows you to react better, I think. And your Bob went into remission on ProZinc, didn't he?

This lack of sleep every other night is killing me. But that is how Pumbaa's "dance" has been going while on Lantus. *sigh*

I'm not the only one going through this, and I empathize with everyone else and their sleepless nights.

Suze
 
That's how it went for me as well. Only I wasn't on the board with Carl as the calm voice of reason to talk me though it.

It was harrowing because you just don't know how low it's going. Of course ever since I've regretted the overreaction.

MammaOfMuse had a 24 the other week and didn't even bat an eye or do anything but feed lo carb. :shock:

I suspect Pumbaa is out of the woods now but keep checking to be sure.
 
Suze, Bob was actually on compounded PZI, which is like prozinc but actually from bovine insulin rather that prozinc's formula which is actually recombinant human insulin... works the same way though.

Dale....lol, it's a lot easier to appear as a "calm voice" from where I'm sitting. I don't have the kitty crashing in front of me while I'm holding sharp objects in each hand :-)
I just know it's terrible when someone is on the board late at night in the middle of a crisis asking a question or three, and for a few awful moments, it looks like nobody is around to hear them. So if nothing else, I can let them know they aren't alone....then I try to look for people who can answer if I can't. I've" met" a lot of really fantastic people that way! This place rocks :-)
Carl
 
Carl & Bob in SC said:
lol, it's a lot easier to appear as a "calm voice" from where I'm sitting. I don't have the kitty crashing in front of me while I'm holding sharp objects in each hand :-)
I just know it's terrible when someone is on the board late at night in the middle of a crisis asking a question or three, and for a few awful moments, it looks like nobody is around to hear them. So if nothing else, I can let them know they aren't alone....then I try to look for people who can answer if I can't. I've" met" a lot of really fantastic people that way! This place rocks :-)
Carl
Click to expand...

You are a total sweetheart, and I appreciate the hand-holding, that is for sure! You make me, and others, calm down when we are the most stressed, and answer questions we should have been asking ourselves, except for the current stress. That is a priceless gift, Carl, and i thank you for that. (((HUGS))) You are a wonderful asset to these boards!

Suze
 
[quote="Dale 'n' Chip"MammaOfMuse had a 24 the other week and didn't even bat an eye or do anything but feed lo carb. :shock:.[/quote]

Yeah, but she has experience and knows what she is doing! :) I don't !
 
Dale 'n' Chip said:
It was harrowing because you just don't know how low it's going. Of course ever since I've regretted the overreaction.
Click to expand...

Dale, don't regret the overreaction, it was a learning experience and you acted cautiously because you love Chip. I will never forget that too little insulin kills slowly over time, but too much insulin can kill quickly. I'd rather err by giving too little insulin than giving too much. :)

Suze
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top