Still in the hospital... but trying to learn fast

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JenM said:
Finally he agreed that the plan will be to get his potassium up, then take him of the iv. He'll come home to be tube fed and injected with regular insulin every six hours, plus sub q fluid as needed. Once his liver Isn't acting up, we'll work on longer lasting insulin.

This sounds really promising if it's just the potassium levels that is keeping him hospitalized! (Hypokalemia is another potential side-effect from either the DKA and/or the Hepatic Lipidosis, so it's another thing to not overly worry about.) Good job on sticking to your guns. Please let us know how Tink is doing today and if the vet gives you an ETA for when he might be able to come home. :-D
 
Ok... FINALLY. So, although the vet still "officially recommends" continued hospitilization, he is willing to send him home. I could have gotten him this afternoon, but we decided to wait until tomorrow afternoon so we had time to get him back on his insulin injections, rather than the CRI. The CRI was basically done so the "fill in" vet didnt have to get up in the middle of the night to give insulin (we dont have a 24hr vet, but they've been taking him home with them).

His potassium level is low-normal now (he's been on IV drip again since his bg spike over the weekend), but I really want it normal or better before taking him home. So we're going to continue the IV fluids until I pick him up, but take him off the CRI first thing in the morning and go back to regular insulin injections, which I can then take care of the "middle of the night" dosing.

At home, he'll still have the feeding tube and will get subQ fluids (which I've done on both cats and dogs) once or twice a day. He wants me to check his bg half way between doses of insulin to see how low it goes. I think I might check before dosing too... but we'll see. I dont know that doing it every time is an option, with the regular insulin. 4 injections, plus 4 pricks sounds like one pissed off cat. So we'll see. Open to suggestions there.

He's also on amoxi for a uti and the vet wants to keep him on that for "a week or two" because it could help his liver too (depending on what the issue is, but he says it COULD be an infection also). I guess it can't hurt. He's never really been on antibiotics before (except maybe once as a kitten) so I'm not too worried about it.

He's being sent home with a/d for tube feeding... but I'd really like to get to a low carb food sooner than later. I dont see potassium listed on any of the food lists... though it might be listed on the can... I can't recall. Wouldn't mind getting a food high in potassium since he's struggling to keep that up. But I think getting him back to normal via IV, then tube feeding should be ok. He didnt have the tube yet when they took him off IV the first time.

He's going to put him on 1.5u of regular insulin every 6hrs. So I'll be doing that at 6, 12, 6, 12... how would you all suggest I do the bg monitoring??

I got a ReliOn Prime meter. Is that ok? I wanted to get the Confirm or Micro as some had suggested, but the strips were WAY more expensive (like $40 vs $9 for 50). Will it work? At first the vet was adamant that a human meter isn't calibrated for cats and dogs and I needed a pet meter... but then yesterday he said someone gave him a bunch of human diabetic supplies that he'd give me - so I think maybe the internist he's been talking to set him straight??

With doing the sub Q fluids, he says I should give the insulin injection somewhere else, rather than in the scruff. He wants it in the muscle (which is odd, if the scruff is an option)... but he doesn't HAVE much muscle right now. Where's the best place to give it? I know he'll tell me where... but I want to hear your thoughts as well as I think this room has a lot more experience with FD than he does.
 
JenM said:
At home, he'll still have the feeding tube and will get subQ fluids (which I've done on both cats and dogs) once or twice a day. He wants me to check his bg half way between doses of insulin to see how low it goes. I think I might check before dosing too... but we'll see. I dont know that doing it every time is an option, with the regular insulin. 4 injections, plus 4 pricks sounds like one pissed off cat. So we'll see. Open to suggestions there....

...He's going to put him on 1.5u of regular insulin every 6hrs. So I'll be doing that at 6, 12, 6, 12... how would you all suggest I do the bg monitoring??

Do you know when he wants you to switch over from the R insulin to the Lantus? Or are you going to do it based on Tink's recovery progress?

You want to test before injecting the insulin just in case Tink is already low, so 4 injections = 4 pricks before shots + 4 pricks mid-cycle. Here's a page of ear-testing tips to help you get started. Cats have less nerve endings in their ears than we do in our fingertips so it doesn't really hurt them. I test Michelangelo 10 to 20 times or more a day and at this point, half the time he's the one seeking me out for a test. What annoys them more than anything is being restrained. I wrote this up to help with creating a conducive environment for ear testing that will not only help you with testing, but also with the tube-feeding (a lot of the techniques I used to get my part-feral Michelangelo to let me ear-test him I actually borrowed from when I had to figure out how to tube-feed my part-feral Patrick).

As for feeding only twice a day, this is not a good idea. You'll want to feed several small meals throughout the day, most especially at each shot time and possibly half-way between shot times if his numbers are low. You want to make sure you feed only a little bit at a time (don't overload the tube) and flush the tube with water after every syringe of food. You also want to stroke under Tink's chin in a downward motion to help trigger his salivary glands and stomach digestion since he's not eating through his mouth. This will probably be the easiest step out of everything else you're having to deal with. Food generally makes cats happy, even cats who aren't eating, and Tink will most likely be very accommodating. This also might give you a good chance to do ear-testing on him if you have an extra set of hands because Tink will be sitting relatively still while he's "eating."

JenM said:
I got a ReliOn Prime meter. Is that ok? I wanted to get the Confirm or Micro as some had suggested, but the strips were WAY more expensive (like $40 vs $9 for 50). Will it work? At first the vet was adamant that a human meter isn't calibrated for cats and dogs and I needed a pet meter... but then yesterday he said someone gave him a bunch of human diabetic supplies that he'd give me - so I think maybe the internist he's been talking to set him straight??

Yep, the Prime is fine to use. It does require more blood than the Confirm/Micro so you might want to look for larger gauge lancets labeled for "alternate site testing." Warming the ear with a rice sock is highly key when first starting out because it helps get the blood flowing. (Rice Sock: fill sock with rice, beans or lentils, microwave 10-25 seconds, test heat against forearm like a baby's bottle.) You also want to make sure you apply pressure directly after getting blood to stop the bleeding and reduce bruising because the first couple of weeks, their ears will look terrible! Once their ears "learn to bleed," the bruising clears up and you won't even be able to tell that you test him.

JenM said:
With doing the sub Q fluids, he says I should give the insulin injection somewhere else, rather than in the scruff. He wants it in the muscle (which is odd, if the scruff is an option)... but he doesn't HAVE much muscle right now. Where's the best place to give it? I know he'll tell me where... but I want to hear your thoughts as well as I think this room has a lot more experience with FD than he does.

Here's a great diagram of places to give injections on cats that might help. Most people shoot in the flank or scruff. You don't want to shoot the insulin into the muscle so I don't know why he's telling you to do that?? I give "flat" shots to Mikey because when he was first diagnosed, he was a 4.8 pound 6-month old kitten who had nothing to "tent" properly. What you do is lightly pull up on the fur/skin so you can see the "shot spot" clearly. Then, you want to slide the needle in at about a 20* angle, not so shallow that it pokes through the other side but shallow enough that you don't hit muscle. You can practice this angle on a cut apple or potato that will allow you to "see" the needle through the skin/meat as if it were a cross-section.
 
So glad he is coming home. Tink will be in better hands with you taking care of him with the help from everyone here at FDMB. :-D

Even though I am not very experienced with some of the things you will have to do, Rumpelteazer and I are following your ordeal and keep giving healing vines and paw-hugs every day.

Glad to hear you set the vet straight. :thumbup

You are a SUPER FUR-MOM and Tink will surely be happy to be home with you taking care of him.

Prayers sent for Tink's recovery. cat_pet_icon
 
Wow, glad to hear he's coming home! I'm just new here. My cat has his appt tomorrow to see if he is diabetic. He's got all the classic symptoms. Lots of awesome information and great people from what I've been reading!
 
@KPassa
The subQ will be once or twice a day... not the feeding. That will be at least 4x/day, corresponding with his insulin injections.
The plan for longer lasting insulin is to try the Lantus again once Tink is in better shape. Once the feeding tube is out and he's been regulated on the regular insulin for awhile. Probably a couple weeks. I think once he's feeling well and not being stuffed with carbs, it might be easier to get the longer lasting stuff to be effective.

So... a question for ya'll.

With feeding... should I just keep doing the Science Diet a/d for a bit as the vet is going to suggest, while we're tube feeding? Even on the can it says "for intermittent feeding only" which tells me it's probably not as nutritious as it could be. It's also labed for "feline/canine" which I found extremely odd since they have completely different needs. I'm guessing any pate could be fed with the tube. Should I switch ASAP to Wellness or Evo or something... or should I just stick with a/d for now? I just dont trust Science Diet AT ALL. I'd rather get him back on a good quality food asap, but managing the bg and getting his body back in order is my primary concern. He needs to gain some weight and build some muscle. My mind is telling me I should seek out a high protein, maybe high fat, low carb, and preferably high potassium food. But I dont want to get things out of whack with his system. The first ingredient in the a/d is water. Corn gluten isn't far down the list. I'd rather he be eating food that's packed with what he needs, not with water and fillers. I mean, he needs water... but we're already adding water to the food for tube feeding... plus he's getting fluids. I'd rather his food be, well, FOOD. Thoughts?
 
The A/D can is a complete diet and can be used indefinitely. It is formulated to be complete for both felines and canines. I would do as your vet suggests "keep doing the Science Diet a/d for a bit". Just not for long.
Any finely ground food can be tube fed. However, just make sure that there are no lumps and other stuff like that in the food since that could clog the tube. Many tube feeders pass the food through a strainer before tube feeding to remove large pieces.
I would transition by mixing A/D with the other food and increasing the amount of the other food in the mixture.
 
Jen,
No experience tube feeding kitties, but lots with people (my mom). I remember that many people, with time, refuse to take anything by mouth. Do you or does anyone know if one should be offering a few pieces of tempting cat food every few hours? Just not to miss out on the moment when kitty's appetite returns? Anyone? Your vet? I realize that now the important point is tube feeding yet...future is around the corner!
Many (((hugs))), Sophie
 
Yes, they said it's good to offer it, as at some point his appetite should return. Once he eats on his own, the tube can come out. I'm just not sure WHAT to offer. His favorite food in the world is canned tuna, so that might be good. Not to let him eat a lot of... but to get him eating. He's a dry food addict, so we're going to have to find a canned food he'll eat. That might be challenging. I think I'm going to switch my other cats over to at least a grain-free dry. Maybe mixed with canned, to try to reduce their overall carb intake as well, and prevent anyone else from having these issues. I thougth I was feeding good food... based on the research I did years ago when I took them off of mainstream brands. But there was no talk of carbs not being good for them back then (at least not that I found)... it was just concerns over corn and byproducts mostly. But the carb thing makes sense. You dont see cats eating grains and things in the wild.

I'm going to have to keep him separated from the rest of the "herd" when I can't supervise, to make sure my rowdy kitten doesn't pick on him or stress him out. So I will probably just put some extra food in a dish. If it's been touched, I'll know it was him. He has never liked to eat with an audience. I just worry about him getting food without insulin... but I guess with the current dosing every 6hours, that's probably not too much of a concern.

I just hope I dont have too much trouble with bg testing at first! I know it'll get easier... it it HAS to be done... NOW. I can't exactly wait till I figure it out. It LOOKS easy enough. But I've thought that about other things and they turned out to be quite difficult! Plus I've always been a bit squeamish about blood... but guess I'll have to get over that real quick!
 
If you must use dry:
Evo Cat and Kitten dry
Stella & Chewy's Freeze dried
Young Again 0 Carb (5% calories form carbs the way we calculate it, and internet orders only)
 
He' home!! :-) Curled up on my lap snoring. Probably the best sleep he's had in a week. Spent a little time exploring.

First attempt at bg testing was a dismal failure. Got blood but not enough for my strips. Should have just spent the extra on the micro. Didn't think there was that much difference between .3 and.5 microliters... but yeah. Plus his ears are black and fuzzy.
 
So glad he's home!

What size lancets? Humans use 30-31 gauge. Cats usually need 25-27 until their ears"learn to bleed". Did you warm his ear with a rice sack or warm water in a little bottle? That can be vital in the beginning. You can also double poke - a quick second poke in the same spot. And if you get blood and he starts to move, get the drop on your fingernail and test from there.

Oliver had black ears. It was easiest for us to poke from the inside so we could see the spot easier and milk the ear if we needed to. Be sure you have something to poke against. We used a small makeup sponge; some people like a folded kleenix.

And really poke. The biggest mistake lots of beans make is being too gentle and not just giving it a good push.

There was someone who said they might help. I think it was further up your thread.

Keep trying. Three tries and then treats for bean and cat. You will figure out what technique will work for the two of you. It just takes some time. :-D
 
A dab of Neosporin ointment (not cream) on the ear a few minutes before testing, then wiped off, will reduce some of the annoyance, plus help the blood bead up.
 
Yay.....He Is Home !!! We Are Sooooo :-D :-D :-D

Maybe start a new thread "Tink Is Home" so we can follow his "happier-home-treatment" by you. cat_pet_icon cat_pet_icon cat_pet_icon

Keep us posted on his progress and keep asking all the questions you have in mind. Everyone here is anxious to help you and Tink in any way possible.

Best of luck from me and RumpelT. :-D
 
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