Still Having Problems with Smokey Uncontrolable Hunger

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wendiz23

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I am still confused on Smokey's hunger issues & it seems to be getting worse, he's starting to remind me of a raccoon. He eats once at 8 am (breakfast), 2pm (snack), 8pm (dinner) & giving a couple tarter snacks in between as a very small "snack." During these feedings Smokey also usually finishes what Tommy doesn't eat either so believe me he's getting fed well. We usually can only take his number at 8am & 8pm due to schedules but this weekend I'm for sure gonna make it a priority to get 2 hour numbers as well. Last month his amps & pmps were in the range of 200-300 but now it has changed from the 300-400's so I am assuming he needs a dose increase of his insulin. He is currently getting .5 units on a u-100 needle (.2 units u-40 when converted right?) of Prozinc at 8am & 8pm. Can someone please help, I feel so bad yelling at him when it is obviously my fault for not being able to take better care of him? Thank you & I am trying but this has gotten so frustrating for me & I know for him as well, I just want him healthy!
 
You have lots of nice blues and yellows but some greens would be good. Yes, I would increase. Maybe to .3 or .4?

How much are you feeding and what food?
 
I am feeding him Fancy Feast Classic. He eats 1 can 3 to 4 times a day but usually 3 depending on how hungry he is. He gets 1 at 8am & 8pm for sure then may get snack at 2pm if I'm home which is usual but like I said he steals a lot of the other cats food when he's done.
 
It seems like that would be enough. My 10# kitty who is not very active gets 2 cans daily. Here is Carl's easy method to figure out how much to feed:

20-30 calories per pound of ideal body weight, per day. That will keep a healthy cat at its ideal weight. The range of calories is dependent upon a few factors, one of which would be level of activity.

But I do think some cats will eat as much as they can. Our Oliver had been homeless when we adopted him - a Maine Coon who should have weighed about 12 pounds and was 7 pounds. I always thought he was afraid he would never get another meal, and he always was willing/desparate to eat.

What do you think about a little raise in dose?
 
wendiz23 said:
giving a couple tarter snacks in between as a very small "snack."
Click to expand...

This caught my eye. Even a couple of crunchy high carb treats a day can send their bg's soaring.

Have you tried the freeze dried low carb treats, maybe you can convert him.

I havn't looked at your ss yet. brb
 
Grayson has had a RAVENOUS appetite for months. We have TWO cans of FF w/ each preshot, and at least one more can in between (more if he can coax it outa me!).

Someone (maybe Heather/Sneakers?) told me that until she found the right dose for Sneakers (now on Lev), there was never enough food to satisfy. Grayson was 21 pounds before dx, and is now holding about 12-13... so he LOOKS like he needs more food, and he'll tell me whenever his appetite is up. I know it skews his numbers, but I feel like I'm starving him if he screams so loudly. Depending on how Smokey looks and feels, you may want to give more, or split the mid-cycle can between two separate feedings.

Libby used to (probably still does) give Hershey equal sized meals throughout the day. That seems to work well for him. I don't know that there's any hard & fast rule. It's an ECID thing.
 
From the mid cycle tests that you've gotten it looks like the dose is working pretty well and you could increase a bit to get a deeper curve and bring down the PS's hopefully.
 
Ya' I don't know but lately he's seriously been in raccoon mode and when I'm not looking finds what is on counter and drags it off with him. I'm afraid he's gonna start eating the furniture if I don't figure something out soon. LOL I guess we shall try a higher dose over the weekend so we can actually get the 2 hour test we need. Smokey started out at 21 lbs like 2 years ago when first diagnosed and is at about 8 now so it's slightly scary. He acts like a normal cat besides wanting to eat the entire house. He's always been hungry but the last couple months have been insane.
 
An unregulated diabetic IS literally starving to death, the diabetes doesn't let their bodies process the food that they are eating, that is why they are losing weight as a symptom of diabetes.

I would feed him all the food he wants until you get closer to regulation, and I think you are in the ballpark.

What meter are you using? The meters with True in their names have been reading lower than they should.
 
I could leave out all the food in the house out and he'd still not be satisfied. Is there a different food I could feed him that is less expensive? If I up his insulin to .4 I'd be doubling it, does that sound like too much?
 
I can't help you with dosing. Petsmart makes a brand it's their house brand that is very similar to FF. it is less expensive. It use to be called Sophicat. Recently they went through some label changes or something like that. It's small cans like FF & is cheaper. I have seen some memebers feed the Walmart brand. I don't know anything about that brand.
I hope this helps some.
 
I can't give you dosing help, but I can tell you Charley LOVES the freeze dried chicken treats Petco sells. He used to get the crunchy treats too but doesn't seem to miss them. Charley weighs 15.4 lbs and eats 4 oz of food at 5 am and pm. I leave another 2.5 oz out in a frozen "meat pop" during the day and evening for him and our other kitties to eat. Which is nothing more than the cat food mixed with a little water then frozen in a Dixie cup. The frozen treats have helped immensely. He doesn't cry for food and is getting some extra fluids at the same time. Before we started putting out the frozen pops I'd wake up in the middle of the night with Charley sitting on my chest, crying and wanting food.
 
I'm gonna try the frozen pops may be a good idea for him. Smokey also grabs the food and swallows, he doesn't chew it anymore. He eats the can so fast some days. So I take a can put in cup mix with water and freeze right? Thanks!
 
Adding the water tip is a great idea. You can do it during the day too, just some warm water added to the food (I'd start with just enough to make it slightly soupy till he gets used to the new texture.)

.4 would be double your present dose but it is hard to measure the .3. With such a tiny amount it isn't like the drastic difference between one unit and two units, for example. But go with what makes you comfortable. Try a fat .2 - just a drop more than you are now giving.
 
wendiz23 said:
I'm gonna try the frozen pops may be a good idea for him. Smokey also grabs the food and swallows, he doesn't chew it anymore. He eats the can so fast some days. So I take a can put in cup mix with water and freeze right? Thanks!
Click to expand...

I always add water- up to an equal amount of food. I also make the raw chicken diet for Sneakers and freeze it in ice cube trays. I give her one cube of chicken and one cube of water. When I have someone come in I freeze the canned food in more ice cube trays and mix with water and mirilax so they just get put out- two cubes of food to one ice. She nibbles on it sometimes before I leave for work :lol: .

I've switched over to the PetSmart brand Sophisticats Supreme(no longer says adult on it, but that is what it is in Binky's list) and it is cheaper/can ($11.52/case of 24) than FF (on sale $14.40/case of 24, regular price is $18/case). They come in the same flavors as the FF and the ingredients are actually less in the later tail of the list. She's eating it the same right now.

The plus side is the higher I go in insulin the less she is eating. 15-18oz/day (2 cases per week for two months) down to 10-13oz/day (1 case per week for another two months) and this last week she has been sometimes eating only 8-10oz per day, then goes back up a little. To give you a clue she is on 7u of levemir right now and is finally giving me some great numbers and staying out of ketone territory.

The more regulated, the more nutrients they get out of their food and they feel the need to eat less. It just takes a while for them to adjust.
 
Can you give me your raw diet recipe? Can I use it to replace the canned food diet or do you use it to supplement it. I need to figure something out here because I am unemployed, we just bought a new house and Fancy Feast is so expense but I need to feed my boys. Thanks for all the help so far everyone we appreciate it. Again I will up the insulin Saturday morning as well and see what happens.
 
Turkey and Giblets, and Country Style Dinner would be good choices to see if they like those.

Has Smokey ever been tested for hyperthyroid? A lot of the symptoms mirror diabetes symptoms, especially weight loss.

Carl
 
wendiz23 said:
Ya' I don't know but lately he's seriously been in raccoon mode and when I'm not looking finds what is on counter and drags it off with him. I'm afraid he's gonna start eating the furniture if I don't figure something out soon. LOL I guess we shall try a higher dose over the weekend so we can actually get the 2 hour test we need. Smokey started out at 21 lbs like 2 years ago when first diagnosed and is at about 8 now so it's slightly scary. He acts like a normal cat besides wanting to eat the entire house. He's always been hungry but the last couple months have been insane.
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Grayson went from 21.6 to 12, so I know what you're saying. He was going into the kitchen cupboards and eating ANYTHING he could get his little paws on. Egg noodles, pasta, (clearly carb-starved!), dog food, cat food, and some inanimate things because they were stored in ziplock baggies. :lol: Give him a chance to go in another room, and he's scavenging. Even seen him reach into the dog crate where Bo sleeps, pull the tray out the bottom of it, thereby dragging the food bowl over to the edge where he could grab some. Opposable thumbs are NOT THAT FAR away! So I put Bo's food bowl in one of those wall-mounted ones... and he reaches in and pulls out some in his palm! He's OBSESSED w/ Kitt-N-Kaboodle!!! I've said it before, he'd sell his brothers and me for one bowl of kibble!!! :lol:


hmjohnston said:
The plus side is the higher I go in insulin the less she is eating. 15-18oz/day (2 cases per week for two months) down to 10-13oz/day (1 case per week for another two months) and this last week she has been sometimes eating only 8-10oz per day, then goes back up a little. To give you a clue she is on 7u of levemir right now and is finally giving me some great numbers and staying out of ketone territory.

The more regulated, the more nutrients they get out of their food and they feel the need to eat less. It just takes a while for them to adjust.
Click to expand...

Dose-wise Grayson is not there, but his appetite has reduced a little lately since we've been on Lev (May 31). HOWEVER... while I was outa town, the week before the insulin change, he got 2 cans each am/pm WITHOUT much in between (my friend Nancy said she gave him some). Anyways, he was acting like he'd had NONE the entire time I was gone - or at least that was the story HE was telling!!! It took a few days to get him back to knowing there WOULD be another meal coming. Now he's back to pretty much normal. Well, normal, all things considered.

Smokey will get there. Just hang on!!! But yes, I would feed him when he's acting so famished.
 
Jill (and Alex) posted this a few weeks back in another thread about diabetes and feeding because of a huge appetite. It may or may not apply to Smokey, but sometimes just throwing tons of food at the issue isn't the best thing:
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=71229&p=776014&
just wanted to share a post from the past that sheds a whole lot of light on feeding diabetic kitties...

Feeding hungry..... unregulated cats
Posted by: Lisa dvm (IP Logged)
Date: April 11, 2009 02:42AM

Vic is right when she is discussing a happy medium.

From this link:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/read.php?15,520791,532240

Please see this post:


why food should be somewhat controlled...
Posted by: Hilary & Zug(GA) (IP Logged)
Date: December 1, 2006 11:22PM


Here's a really good explanation of why NOT to overfeed/feed until "satisfied":

In general, brain cells do not need insulin to utilize glucose. A specific area of the brain, called the appetite center (in the hypothalamus), monitors the amount of glucose that circulates in the bloodstream. The lower the blood glucose level in the cells in the appetite center the greater the appetite. Unlike most of the brain cells, the ability of glucose to enter the cells of the appetite center is dependent upon insulin. In diabetes mellitus, with its lack of adequate insulin in the bloodstream, these appetite center cells don't monitor glucose levels properly, thinking the blood glucose is low. as a result, the pet develops polyphagia to correct for this perceived problem. The additional food that is then eaten further increases the blood glucose level.

from: [url=http://lbah.com/feline/d.../lbah.com/feline/diabetes.htm#Pathophysiology[/url]

Basically, a cat that's unregulated can't really tell what's going on with its appetite, and the high BGs make the cat even hungrier. It's something of a balancing act -- you want to be sure you're feeding sufficient food that the cat is getting the nutrition it needs, especially to help reduce the risk of ketoacidosis, but you don't want to overfeed (which often happens when the cat is "hungry"). The poor cat doesn't know if it really needs food, it just knows that its brain is saying "need food now!".

Hilary

Me: Active (albeit intermittently) on FDMB since Dec 2002.
Zug (GA): B&W Japanese Bobtail, unknown age.
Diagnosed 12/18/02. Tightly regulated on PZI-VET for most of his fight with diabetes. Died of peritoneal carcinomatosis (a very invasive form of cancer) October 19, 2005, and sorely missed.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/read.php?8,1613524,1613896,sv=1#msg-1613896



feeding diabetic cats "as much as they want" will often result in grossly overweight kitties. their caregivers end up having to put the cat on a "diet".

Dr. Lisa has put together some great info here: Feline Obesity: An Epidemic of Fat Cats. Definitely worth reading.
Click to expand...

Carl
 
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