Starting over and need help
- Thread starter Lauren & Red
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Lauren & Red
Member Since 2021
Thank you so much for the info! My biggest concern is that my cat won’t let the libre stay on. Or that it will hurt him/make him uncomfortable all day. I’m imagining a hard piece of plastic on my back or side and don’t think I would tolerate that well. So how can I expect my cat to?
Red still hates tests. If I don’t get it right the first time (and I rarely do) or I hit the wrong spot he holds a grudge and makes the next one a lot more difficult. It still takes me over 30 minutes to get a reading some days. My only advantage is getting him when he’s sleeping because I can make at least 2 attempts before he’s awake enough to really fight me.
Sometimes I get lucky on my first try. But that’s rarely the case. I’m able to get the number now at least. Not always at the time I want but it’s slowly getting better (like snail pace slowly—LOL).
I tried putting him in a sweater once but he wasn’t having it. For the hour it lasted, he looked both adorable and very angry at the same time.
Lauren & Red
Member Since 2021
Thank you so much! I will use this and enter the numbers I have when I’m done with work. It probably won’t be until after diner time but this is a huge help!https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...zo8excv5yA0b0SGOQH7VD-lQkpkBoWzF2kLc/pubhtml#
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Jessica A
Member Since 2021
Hi Lauren,
I hope that you and Red are doing well today. I saw this thread and just wanted to say that I am so sorry about those test strips being expired -- I'm very new to all of this (and to this board) and I know how overwhelmed I've been since Callie's diagnosis. To have that happen on top must have been unbelievably frustrating. But I have hope that the folks in this board will be able to work their magic and figure out patterns etc. even from the "bad" numbers.
On a more hopeful note: I have had to restore google docs and sheets to prior versions before ... I'm definitely not an expert and I am not sure what you have already tried, but it might be worth trying the steps found here.
Hope this is helpful.
I hope that you and Red are doing well today. I saw this thread and just wanted to say that I am so sorry about those test strips being expired -- I'm very new to all of this (and to this board) and I know how overwhelmed I've been since Callie's diagnosis. To have that happen on top must have been unbelievably frustrating. But I have hope that the folks in this board will be able to work their magic and figure out patterns etc. even from the "bad" numbers.
On a more hopeful note: I have had to restore google docs and sheets to prior versions before ... I'm definitely not an expert and I am not sure what you have already tried, but it might be worth trying the steps found here.
Hope this is helpful.
Katherine&Ruby
Member Since 2020
Hi Lauren,
The testing part gets easier. It took me about 6 weeks to get it right, after buying a lancing device with a clear cap like this one. Many on the Lantus forum can attest to how much it pained me to do it. Now it's part of our daily bonding routine. I rub Ruby's head with a warm sock and give her a little massage that she seems to enjoy before I warm her ear with it. I have also had the Libre on Ruby, the breaks from poking are great and having 24/7 data is terrific. If you can learn to put it on Red yourself you save yourself a lot of money, but they don't last very long sometimes and Ruby hates them.
Another good thing to keep in mind is insulin is not a drug, it's a hormone. If you give it to Red, it's not going to show immediate effects like taking an aspirin does for a headache. It can take a while before you get the right dose to break through his body's resistance and it also takes time for the pancreas to heal and start producing insulin on its own. Do not lose heart if you don't see immediate effects. It's a marathon, not a sprint, so you have to not take what happens on a day to day basis too hard. This is something I have to remind myself daily about my own cat who almost got to remission but had to go on steroids and now I'm battling high numbers on a daily basis.
Finally, try to let go of doing everything perfectly. There is so much to learn and absorb. Give yourself breathing space and compassion. It will all be ok.
The testing part gets easier. It took me about 6 weeks to get it right, after buying a lancing device with a clear cap like this one. Many on the Lantus forum can attest to how much it pained me to do it. Now it's part of our daily bonding routine. I rub Ruby's head with a warm sock and give her a little massage that she seems to enjoy before I warm her ear with it. I have also had the Libre on Ruby, the breaks from poking are great and having 24/7 data is terrific. If you can learn to put it on Red yourself you save yourself a lot of money, but they don't last very long sometimes and Ruby hates them.
Another good thing to keep in mind is insulin is not a drug, it's a hormone. If you give it to Red, it's not going to show immediate effects like taking an aspirin does for a headache. It can take a while before you get the right dose to break through his body's resistance and it also takes time for the pancreas to heal and start producing insulin on its own. Do not lose heart if you don't see immediate effects. It's a marathon, not a sprint, so you have to not take what happens on a day to day basis too hard. This is something I have to remind myself daily about my own cat who almost got to remission but had to go on steroids and now I'm battling high numbers on a daily basis.
Finally, try to let go of doing everything perfectly. There is so much to learn and absorb. Give yourself breathing space and compassion. It will all be ok.
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
Hi Lauren
As you say you are making progress! That’s great!!
Marj has said she can help you with your SS and also @Bandit's Mom can as well.
As you say you are making progress! That’s great!!
Marj has said she can help you with your SS and also @Bandit's Mom can as well.
Lauren & Red
Member Since 2021
Thank you for the encouragement! I appreciate it. I just feel bad for him and can’t seem to get his urine glucose lower than the highest reading. I am going to look at the link you gave me right away. That sounds like exactly what I need. I’m so uncomfortable doing it freehand. I keep trying but I’m never successful. But the problem with the Lancet device is that I can’t see where I’m aiming. I hit the vein again today. It makes me sick to know I hurt him. A clear cap may be a possible solution.Hi Lauren,
The testing part gets easier. It took me about 6 weeks to get it right, after buying a lancing device with a clear cap like this one. Many on the Lantus forum can attest to how much it pained me to do it. Now it's part of our daily bonding routine. I rub Ruby's head with a warm sock and give her a little massage that she seems to enjoy before I warm her ear with it. I have also had the Libre on Ruby, the breaks from poking are great and having 24/7 data is terrific. If you can learn to put it on Red yourself you save yourself a lot of money, but they don't last very long sometimes and Ruby hates them.
Another good thing to keep in mind is insulin is not a drug, it's a hormone. If you give it to Red, it's not going to show immediate effects like taking an aspirin does for a headache. It can take a while before you get the right dose to break through his body's resistance and it also takes time for the pancreas to heal and start producing insulin on its own. Do not lose heart if you don't see immediate effects. It's a marathon, not a sprint, so you have to not take what happens on a day to day basis too hard. This is something I have to remind myself daily about my own cat who almost got to remission but had to go on steroids and now I'm battling high numbers on a daily basis.
Finally, try to let go of doing everything perfectly. There is so much to learn and absorb. Give yourself breathing space and compassion. It will all be ok.
I’ve tried three different kinds already and so far it’s the same problem with all. I’m sick of buying these cheap things for nothing. Even the expensive one is just as bad and cheap feeling/working. It’s driving me nuts. Have you ever heard of this? (link HERE)
I’m sure if this was OK to use, accurate and worked as promised then I would’ve heard of it by now from someone. But the idea is that you can get blood from other areas of the body. He tolerates the insulin injections so well that I thought this was worth considering. It might even be better for the ear too. It has a clear part and “sucks up” the blood right after the poke. I like the way that sounds too. It’s quite pricey but there’s literally no price I wouldn’t pay at this point to make the testing easier.
I think I linked it correctly to my signature. But let me know if you can’t see it. The numbers are completely meaningless probably. Or perhaps low but consistently low and still showing his highs and lows? Or a pattern?
Honestly, I don’t think anyone can know for sure or base anything on readings from 2 year past expiration strips that wouldn’t even pick up glucose with the control solution. Even if there is a pattern, there’s still no way to know the readings were even consistent with each other. The numbers make sense I think. But I’m assuming much lower than they actually were. Focusing on those numbers seems like a gamble anyway so I’ll have to look at the ones going forward and compare when I have enough data.
I’m going to do the PMPS as always. But I may skip doing any more testing after insulin tonight. I don’t think there’s any chance I’m going to be low based on his numbers. But I will confirm that before insulin. I hit a really bad spot this afternoon. There was a lot of blood. And it looks really bad too. I’m not sure what I’m supposed to do or put on it. I made sure the area was clean but I keep hearing conflicting opinions on topical ointments. He seems fine but it’s just really gross to look at and I feel like a monster
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
If you hit the vein, just hold the spot firmly but gently for a couple of minutes. That helps it stop bleeding and bruising
Lauren & Red
Member Since 2021
Thanks! I need to stop hitting the wrong spot. I can see the vein clearly. And I never think I am aiming that close to it. I’m going to look into the clear cap that was recommended as well. Maybe someday I’ll be able to freehand but I’m nowhere near ready for that.
Katherine&Ruby
Member Since 2020
I would not get that device. It's expensive and if you can allow yourself some time, you can get the drop of blood without causing pain or bruising. Ruby's ears looked positively massacred when I tried freehanding the lancet, but everything got better once I used the device instead. I can't emphasize the importance of warming the ear enough. It really helps to get the blood flowing to the capillaries in the ear. Also if you get the lancing device with the clear cap you will be able to see the edge of the ear better. Coconut oil seems to work, though I don't use any ointment anymore. I use a small piece of gauze under Ruby's ear when I poke her and then fold it over to stop the blood and she doesn't have any scarring at all.
Don't worry about the spreadsheet. Anyone giving you dosing advice will look at what has been going on since you have started to give a consistent dose of insulin, which has only been a few days. At a certain point, you will have to choose a dosing method, but for now, let's take it all one day at a time.
I was seriously worried that Ruby would never trust me again after my failures to do the testing right. But you know what? She doesn't remember any of that and we are closer than we ever were before. Red knows that what you are doing for him is love. He won't hold any of this against you.
Don't worry about the spreadsheet. Anyone giving you dosing advice will look at what has been going on since you have started to give a consistent dose of insulin, which has only been a few days. At a certain point, you will have to choose a dosing method, but for now, let's take it all one day at a time.
I was seriously worried that Ruby would never trust me again after my failures to do the testing right. But you know what? She doesn't remember any of that and we are closer than we ever were before. Red knows that what you are doing for him is love. He won't hold any of this against you.
Lauren & Red
Member Since 2021
I appreciate the encouragement and advice. The reason I don’t have a dosing method is because I want to get him where he needs to be as quickly as possible but I don’t know if I’m testing enough to be able to do TR. I know it’s one of the rules. I worry every day that it took me way too long to figure out that he was sick. Likely at least a year. So I want to be aggressive with treatment. At the same time, I’m still not comfortable enough to test anymore than I am. I don’t want to risk hypo. So I’m kind of stuck in between the two methods right now
Katherine&Ruby
Member Since 2020
As I said, this is a marathon. I started with SLGS for exactly the same reason--because I was unsure about testing. But once I got the hang of the poking and started TR, that's when Ruby started to really respond and I was able to get her regulated. There is no rush. This is as much about your comfort as it is about getting Red into better numbers. He can't do it without you.
With TR, the expectation (not a rule) is that you get one test before each shot and one test between each shot. So 4 tests minimum per day. And it's not a rule, because life happens and sometimes we can't be perfect with it. No one will kick you off FDMB because you couldn't get all 4 tests, but they help with keeping the cat safe so you're not giving insulin if he's too low and the midcycle tests are to help with dosing because we want to see how low the current dose is taking the cat.
There's no reason not to start off with SLGS and switch later. And if you switch to TR, there is nothing barring you from switching back to SLGS again later if it's too much.
Lauren & Red
Member Since 2021
His PMPS is 398 and he just had some LC food. I hate that his numbers won’t come down. Is that normal? You would think he would be getting lower by now. Or I would think I should say. I don’t understand how to interpret the info. I wish someone could give me a goal number we want to be at for various times throughout the day. And based on that, it would tell me straight forward if he needed an increase or decrease in insulin. “If this, then that” type thing. Why can’t it be simple?
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Katherine&Ruby
Member Since 2020
As I said earlier, the effect of the insulin will not happen instantaneously. You might have to keep increasing doses for weeks or even months to get him into lower numbers. That's why we have dosing methods and we use the numbers to guide us as to how much to increase or decrease the doses. With SLGS, you hold doses for 7 days and then evaluate based on how LOW the cat goes, not how high. With TR you hold the dose for 3-5 days and evaluate. Don't get excited about individual numbers. We look at numbers over several days to see how he's doing. Focus right now on testing and gathering data.
Lauren & Red
Member Since 2021
Well I am doing 4 tests a day. So if that’s enough for TR, that’s what I’m going to do. I think people will want more numbers first since the rest isn’t accurate because of the expired strips.
He’s just too high and every day he stays high is ultimately taking a toll on the quality and length of the rest of his life. I understand it’s not a race. I know hyper is better than hypo. I also know that his numbers aren’t going to be regulated with the snap of my fingers (that would be nice tho). I understand I can’t up the dose without giving his current dose enough of a hold and looking at the numbers (well—having other people look at the numbers). However, it is slowly killing him. So for me, I am in a rush. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that AS LONG AS I don’t go faster than I safely can, of course. Am I wrong to want that? I hope not …but I’m still learning here
Lauren & Red
Member Since 2021
I understand that. It’s been several weeks and he’s still in very high numbers so it’s just concerning, that’s all. I guess I assumed when everyone said insulin doesn’t instantly work, that meant not the first few days or even week. But thanks for clarifying that. I am listening. I just wish I understood the way everyone else does …hopefully I will eventually. For now, I will get numbers and keep asking for advice. Thank you!
Katherine&Ruby
Member Since 2020
Not wrong to want that, but you're not slowly killing him. Look at other people's spreadsheets. It might make you feel better or at least understand this journey with a little more clarity. Have you looked at Ruby's? She's been diabetic since September of last year. I don't know that she will ever get off insulin but with a lot of love and patience, I am keeping her as comfortable as possible while also keeping her safe.
smorgasbord
Member Since 2021
THIS
A few things in addition to what Katherine has said:
- insulin is a hormone, not a medicine so it doesn’t respond like a medication
- don’t rush it; don’t chase numbers
- don’t raise a dose without knowing how low the current dose takes him; that means if you have no nighttime tests, no one should be recommending a dose increase
- as long as you are testing, you don’t need to test urine glucose but do keep up with ketone testing
Lauren & Red
Member Since 2021
I have been doing nighttime tests. I only said I wasn’t going to tonight because I really hurt him today and wanted to give him a break. Just one night off shouldn’t be a big deal. I’ve been testing at least once after insulin every other night. And will do so again starting tomorrow
Teetee (UK)
Member Since 2019
Hi Lauren
Regarding the urine glucose testing, the readings on the strips will slowly get better as Reds blood glucose drops. They say that the renal threshold is about 200 mg/dl, that's when glucose stops overflowing into the kidneys and being excreted into the urine.
When Duke was first diagnosed we had the same problem as does everybody else when their cat is above the renal threshold but he's fine now his numbers are a lot lower, it took weeks before it went down but it was nice to see the strips slowly getting lighter each day and the same will happen with Red.
It will get better believe me and as for slowly killing him, that's simple just not true.
You are giving Red the insulin he needs to make him better and it's very early doors with his treatment, you will see bounces, inconsistent numbers etc until his body gets used to the insulin and the right dose.
Looking at Reds lab results i can already see progress from the 398 mg/dl.
I don't know much about Lantus but i know that it needs to build up a reservoir in his body before he get the full affect.
Regarding the urine glucose testing, the readings on the strips will slowly get better as Reds blood glucose drops. They say that the renal threshold is about 200 mg/dl, that's when glucose stops overflowing into the kidneys and being excreted into the urine.
When Duke was first diagnosed we had the same problem as does everybody else when their cat is above the renal threshold but he's fine now his numbers are a lot lower, it took weeks before it went down but it was nice to see the strips slowly getting lighter each day and the same will happen with Red.
It will get better believe me and as for slowly killing him, that's simple just not true.
You are giving Red the insulin he needs to make him better and it's very early doors with his treatment, you will see bounces, inconsistent numbers etc until his body gets used to the insulin and the right dose.
Looking at Reds lab results i can already see progress from the 398 mg/dl.
I don't know much about Lantus but i know that it needs to build up a reservoir in his body before he get the full affect.
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Lauren & Red
Member Since 2021
When I look at spreadsheets I get so much more confused. Everyone encourages following the rules of a certain protocol. But then I see people giving doses that don’t follow the rules at all. I’m fact, most don’t. Sometimes the dose is changed almost daily and I can’t see a pattern or understand the reasoning. Sometimes a dose is held for a VERY long time and the highs and lows are all over the place. In that case, I not only don’t understand why it’s so inconsistent, but I also don’t know why the dose isn’t adjusted. It seems like you need a degree to be able to interpret them. But since everyone else understands, the problem is clearly me.
I’m hoping eventually it will click and I will be able to look at them and understand. But for now, it makes it harder. I wish spreadsheets had a column for reasoning of dose given. Not that anyone would want to waste their time doing that. But I just keep wishing I knew why people changed or didn’t changed the dose (how they arrived at the decision). That probably sounds ridiculous.
Lauren & Red
Member Since 2021
The number on your spreadsheet were almost always in the green and look perfect. I wouldn’t think a cat would even need insulin based on those numbers.
Is the predisolone (spelling?) what caused his numbers to raise? Or did something else happen? My other cat has IBD that can’t be managed with anything we’ve tried. The vet wants him to start taking that and I’m picking up prescription Monday. Now I’m worried it may lead to another diabetic cat.
You can’t look at SSa in a void. You have to look at them in context.
First, make sure you are only looking at Lantus SSs. It will say at the top of the SS in most cases. Also note whether they are doing SLGS or TR. Then go to that member’s thread and read what occurred on a certain day that had them decrease or increase the dose. More experienced members might have “TR” or “SLGS” but might actually be doing custom dosing because they have the data to do so. An example is my Gracie. We had enough experience to know what worked for her.
A fairly new member that’s been here a few weeks or more should be following either TR or SLGS pretty much as it is written. If you have questions about specific SSs, post them because just to make a blanket statement doesn’t help us explain anything to you.
Could you please also start a new thread and link this one? Thank you!
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