pevsfreedom
Member Since 2015
Mine's pretty good about that too (I go to Balboa vet clinic) which is why I stuck with him. Last one I went to was HORRIBLE and I think Luna would be dead if I stayed there.
Starting Insulin Uninformed Questions
- Thread starter AliciaG
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Mine's pretty good about that too (I go to Balboa vet clinic) which is why I stuck with him. Last one I went to was HORRIBLE and I think Luna would be dead if I stayed there.
Cat Ma
Member Since 2015
@AliciaG Alternatively, if your vet is adamant about that "script fee", you could buy insulin from a member in the For Sale forum here without a need for a prescription.
Try, as Robin&BB suggests, a lower carb food around 4% or lower and see if that helps lower the BG #'s. A low carb wet diet alone sometimes may put cats into remission without a need for insulin. I am not sure how eating the grass outside would spike BG levels. I'd think it wouldn't have an impact but perhaps someone else here can advise.
Try, as Robin&BB suggests, a lower carb food around 4% or lower and see if that helps lower the BG #'s. A low carb wet diet alone sometimes may put cats into remission without a need for insulin. I am not sure how eating the grass outside would spike BG levels. I'd think it wouldn't have an impact but perhaps someone else here can advise.
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Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
When something mathers you, the Incredible Hulk's a lot nicer than you, John.
[hides]
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pevsfreedom
Member Since 2015
When something mathers you, the Incredible Hulk's a lot nicer than you, John.
[hides]
.
(Yeah I'm bored - so what?)
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
@pevsfreedom - LMAO! 
Robin&BB
Member Since 2013
I wouldn't think so either, except: If there are herbicides or other types of chemical treatments on outdoor grasses/vegetation, it is possible that by ingesting such plants, a cat's blood glucose could be affected.
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Robin&BB
Member Since 2013
Yeppers! As you know, Mogs, I've learned way more than I ever wanted to know about sources of toxins.
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Robin&BB
Member Since 2013
@Critter Mom - So true, so true. <sigh>
Brashworks
Member Since 2015
Hi Alicia, late to the party here - also workaholic etc. - but I wanted to mention, although fair Juliet is not as old as my Genghis, my old girl was also willing to eat at any time, but used to leave a lot of the wet food behind, even if I broke it up with a fork for her. I found that mixing a part of a can of warm water helped immensely. I'd stir it up with a spoon until it was more like a slurry and she eats it all up. Since her sugars are under better control I've noticed her appetite tapering off (a good sign, I think) - she has gained over 2 lbs since late June. Anyway, I think she really enjoys the food a bit warm and a lot slushy. I changed to small saucers and it works a charm.
FWIW, I know the pain of feeding a multi-cat household but some cats on insulin do better with smaller meals throughout the day, rather than the oft-prescribed 2x per day that vets recommend.
Lastly, and I haven't quoted your post, but Genghis had terrible neuropathy - she couldn't jump at all when she was diagnosed and was walking almost completely down on her hocks. Within a month, she was walking better every day, and within a month and a half, between better blood sugar levels and the methyl-B12 (Zobaline, but I make my own) she can jump up on the bed on her own! Take heart! You have come to a great place.
Robin&BB
Member Since 2013
@Brashworks - I just LOVE this!!! So glad you shared it here to inspire Alicia! Is so amazing to see how our kitties can turn around, isn't it?
AliciaG
Member Since 2015
I'm a librarian and yes, it's insane and I do a lot of internal wincing. Hoping to be out and about elsewhere in a few more years. Seeing the original vet today, thank you everyone for the resources I go out to do battle today! A good estimate of Juliet's food intake should be about 1 1/2 serving per feeding from what she steals from the others bowls, and unless that is a bad thing, I'm comfortable with the current intake. She is 13lbs and according to the serving size for fancy feast it's 1 can per 3 lbs but that may be for more active outdoor cats. So unless it is a negative impact, perhaps the "snacking" isn't so bad.
AliciaG
Member Since 2015
Thanks! I had heard it could take up to a year for this to reverse. This gives me hope we can conquer it in half that time!
The no jumping doesntt bother me as much as the inability to move comfortably and well. We have box stairs set up at all of her favorite places with no slip mats for her currently and so she has been more actively joining us up on the couch and in bed again. I missed her! She's still demanding, and she's super social this morning so I'm taking that as a good sign.
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
AliciaG
Member Since 2015
Oooh, I like that idea, I'll give it a try this evening.
Robin&BB
Member Since 2013
I don't understand what you mean by 1-1/2 servings per feeding - I need to know what your estimate is of how many ounces she gets per day (including all feedings in a 24-hr period).
(And just so that you're aware - I wasn't, in the beginning: You really shouldn't go by the "serving size" as printed on the side of a can. If I followed the "1 can per 3/lbs" that the manufacturer of the food recommends, Bat-Bat would be on a much higher dose of insulin ... really, I'm not exaggerating in the least!)
Anyway, please give me your estimate of how much Juliet eats - in ounces - every 24 hours. Thanks!
worry worry worry.
AliciaG
Member Since 2015
Omg I loathe loathe loathe this vet. Man has no bedside manner, insists on feeding her the special diet food, and treated me like I was five. I had stored some questions on my notes on my phone and after reaching for it I was told "pay attention."
Instant button, never speak too me that way, never.
He completely ignored the neuropathy and when I brought it up,he said "well, she can pretty much do everything the other kitties can. She may not ever recover from it." and left it like that.
Then we get to the starting insulin part and glucose curves and vet visit. I can understand wanting to make sure Juliet gets a safe start, but my opinions and questions about home testing nearly turned into an interesting situation had not my husband stepped in. And how dare I use anything not sanctioned by the official American assoc. of feline practitioners. A human gluecometer, how dare I even utter the phrase. And Dr. Google is never something I should consider referencing. I mentioned the forum and ya, I think he totally refused to see me as a responsible grownup.
Can't even get ahold of the insulin until Wednesday. And yes, I'm letting them do the first curve, I'll break off and do things myself afterwards.
I'm so pissed.
Instant button, never speak too me that way, never.He completely ignored the neuropathy and when I brought it up,he said "well, she can pretty much do everything the other kitties can. She may not ever recover from it." and left it like that.
Then we get to the starting insulin part and glucose curves and vet visit. I can understand wanting to make sure Juliet gets a safe start, but my opinions and questions about home testing nearly turned into an interesting situation had not my husband stepped in. And how dare I use anything not sanctioned by the official American assoc. of feline practitioners. A human gluecometer, how dare I even utter the phrase. And Dr. Google is never something I should consider referencing. I mentioned the forum and ya, I think he totally refused to see me as a responsible grownup.
Can't even get ahold of the insulin until Wednesday. And yes, I'm letting them do the first curve, I'll break off and do things myself afterwards.
I'm so pissed.
Robin&BB
Member Since 2013
After this account, can't say on this forum the word that comes to mind while thinking about your vet; suffices to say the word starts with the letter "A." Which insulin will you be using, Alicia?Omg I loathe loathe loathe this vet. Man has no bedside manner, insists on feeding her the special diet food, and treated me like I was five. I had stored some questions on my notes on my phone and after reaching for it I was told "pay attention."
He completely ignored the neuropathy and when I brought it up,he said "well, she can pretty much do everything the other kitties can. She may not ever recover from it." and left it like that.
Then we get to the starting insulin part and glucose curves and vet visit. I can understand wanting to make sure Juliet gets a safe start, but my opinions and questions about home testing nearly turned into an interesting situation had not my husband stepped in. And how dare I use anything not sanctioned by the official American assoc. of feline practitioners. A human gluecometer, how dare I even utter the phrase. And Dr. Google is never something I should consider referencing. I mentioned the forum and ya, I think he totally refused to see me as a responsible grownup.
Can't even get ahold of the insulin until Wednesday. And yes, I'm letting them do the first curve, I'll break off and do things myself afterwards.
I'm so pissed.
ETA: And which food is he insisting you use?
AliciaG
Member Since 2015
Prozinc. I paid for it and syringes at a good price so I didn't get overcharged there. It's the visit theyll get me for later.
He badly wants me to be feeding her the royal canine felines diabetic food and is happy to order me some because t can do so much more for me than the fancy feast.
He badly wants me to be feeding her the royal canine felines diabetic food and is happy to order me some because t can do so much more for me than the fancy feast.
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
granadilla
Member Since 2015
Wow, he sounds like a total jerk. Why does he have to do the first curve? Could you just get the insulin and start it yourself and do a curve at home? I wouldn't want to give him another penny. If you're not sure about the starting dose, you can post on the Prozinc forum and people there will chime in. I *think* the starting dose is typically 0.5 units twice a day but I'm not sure. (My former a****** vet started Marsh out on 2 units which was too much AND he did a curve, so I think you're better off starting with a low safe dose at home and getting advice here.) Just my two cents.
I'm glad you have at least got the insulin coming and she'll feel so much better once she gets on it!!
I'm glad you have at least got the insulin coming and she'll feel so much better once she gets on it!!
Robin&BB
Member Since 2013
Oh, that's a bunch of crap! The Royal Canin won't do "so much more for her" (his words, right?) except maybe ... give her TOO MANY CARBS. Alicia, I got talked into Rx diet for Bat-Bat, too, way back in 2013. (Hill's w/d, both dry & canned - both too high in carbs.). Don't go for it, because later I ended up having to transition her off the Rx diet and onto low-carb food ... and guess what happened? Her BG #s came down & she needed less insulin!He badly wants me to be feeding her the royal canine felines diabetic food and is happy to order me some because t can do so much more for me than the fancy feast.
And any vet who has diagnosed a diabetic cat who doesn't know that neuropathy can actually improve after the diabetes is better controlled is
(pardon me) an idiot! Let him give you the ProZinc - and it sounds like you'll have to allow him to do the curve in-office in order to get him to give it to you. (Although, IMHO, that's akin to holding you up for ransom.) Then: Get. Another. Vet.(By the way, they had you pay for the insulin now & you didn't get to take it home with you? Incredible! I think that's actually not ethical; I'd go back to that office and demand the insulin AND the syringes you just paid for.)
Interview vet prospects - I believe @BJM has a list of great interview questions to ask. Any veterinary office that doesn't want to answer such questions is not one you'd want anyway.
If you already brought home the Rx foods, check Royal Canin's website: Most companies that sell Rx diets through vets' offices offer an "unconditional money-back guarantee." Which means you return whatever unused portion of the food you have, and the vet's office must honor that guarantee & refund what you paid for it, in full. To find good low-carb food choices, here's the food chart
If it sounds like I'm on a rant here, Alicia, I'm sorry. But no vet should ever get away with treating you the way you've just been treated, and I am really p**sed along with you!
Cat Ma
Member Since 2015
@AliciaG Can you keep your appointment with the other vet and see how it works out for you? It will cost a bit to see a new vet but if that vet works out for you, you have a win-win situation. Your current vet would make me scream too.
There is no reason to do a glucose curve at a vet other than to spend needless money and stress out your cat. It can be done at home. Plus, vet glucose curves tend to be much higher, especially with a stressed cat.
As for how long this can take to reverse, CJ went into remission and off insulin in less than 3 weeks, thanks to terrific help I got here and a switch to a low carb diet. I was told by the vet she'd be a "diabetic for life". Before she was on insulin, she could barely walk and the lowest point was when she collapsed at the food bowl. My vet is very nice but was rather useless for diabetes advice. Once he saw I was home testing, there were no arguments or a push to buy expensive prescription food. He just said "keep doing what you're doing". A good vet should work with you, not against you, and support your right to home test and do glucose curves.
There is no reason to do a glucose curve at a vet other than to spend needless money and stress out your cat. It can be done at home. Plus, vet glucose curves tend to be much higher, especially with a stressed cat.
As for how long this can take to reverse, CJ went into remission and off insulin in less than 3 weeks, thanks to terrific help I got here and a switch to a low carb diet. I was told by the vet she'd be a "diabetic for life". Before she was on insulin, she could barely walk and the lowest point was when she collapsed at the food bowl. My vet is very nice but was rather useless for diabetes advice. Once he saw I was home testing, there were no arguments or a push to buy expensive prescription food. He just said "keep doing what you're doing". A good vet should work with you, not against you, and support your right to home test and do glucose curves.
Cat Ma
Member Since 2015
To see how much Zobaline helps, watch @Tucker&Me's amazing video in this thread: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/vitamin-b12.142888/
AliciaG
Member Since 2015
Now that I think on it, he did pull a funny face when I mentioned Fancy Feast. The whole deal kinda ended with him saying "well it's your kitty", in a way that sounded like I had doomed her or something. But yet he seems to have this thing for mentioning owners putting cats down because they couldn't handle it. Eh, over and done with I suppose. They have to order the insulin so I guess they wanted confirmation they'd get paid. But I didn't get over charged so. Eh.
The whole deal kinda ended with him saying "well it's your kitty", in a way that sounded like I had doomed her or something. But yet he seems to have this thing for mentioning owners putting cats down because they couldn't handle it. Eh, over and done with I suppose. They have to order the insulin so I guess they wanted confirmation they'd get paid. But I didn't get over charged so. Eh.
Robin&BB
Member Since 2013
Ha, when they're dealing with a vet like that, small wonder some of his patients (sadly!) ended up putting their cats down - I've no doubt that his approach to treatment cost those poor people a small fortune - and that, coupled with his negative attitude, perhaps made them feel that there was no point. What a shame..Now that I think on it, he did pull a funny face when I mentioned Fancy Feast.
As @Cat Ma noted in an earlier post, there's no good reason why you need to do in-clinic BG curves as "standard good practice" - it's hard on your cat (stress!) usually making the BG#s spike higher than they'd be with a curve done at home, where a cat is much more relaxed. It's a great way for the vet to make more $$$, though!
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