Starting down the CKD road...

[Marciegee]

Hello everyone!

Just over a year of Moby being diagnosed with FD, he was diagnosed with Stage 3 CKD. Just this week, actually, so I guess that's technically 13 months.

I haven't been updating his insulin spreadsheet recently because honestly, my husband and I have been doing a really great job of keeping him regulated. He gets teeny, weeny tiny doses twice a day; literally a shade over the first hashmark on the needle.

I've been reading through a lot of historical posts on this messageboard, and your posts have been infinitely helpful. What I've gathered so far is that we should probably not to insulin and SQ fluids near the same time. We probably cannot wait for Moby's nadir just with my schedule, but we can at least do SQ's a couple hours prior to his PM insulin shot.

We are going back into the hospital tomorrow to learn how to administer fluids and talk about medication options, but my first and foremost issue is FOOD since both seem to be opposing forces working against each other.

Does anyone have any food recommendations for both FD and CKD? My vets, bless them, are trying to push Hill's KD, and even the Hill's prescription senior kitty diet. I'm suspect of the prescription diets and I'm wondering if anyone has any advice or experience with managing what seems to be the balancing act of feeding a kitty with both diseases.

I'll be collecting all test reports tomorrow and will be able to look at BUN and creatinine #'s in full, but if anyone has any tips on where to start on research or tips they they wish they knew when they started, I would be ever so grateful for them.

I am admittedly feeling overwhelmed, but with managing Moby's diabetes for over a year, I feel confident that we can find a way to do this, too.

Thank you for any advice you may be able to give! I appreciate it!

 

[Ken & Tara]

You're probably already aware of Tanya's CKD page. She has an entire section devoted to foods.

 

[Marciegee]

I've tried to read it but the site has been a bit wonky for me this past week. I am trying to get through it but it, too, is a bit overwhelming at the moment. Just a lot of info at once. If anyone has a couple of foods their kitty enjoys for the interim, until I can process all this info, that would help me get started on the right path.

 

[Critter Mom]

Hi Marcie,

Re access to Tanya's Site, I have intermittent problems, too. I bought the book so that I would always have access to the information. The book has all the info that's on the site and it's a great general cat health reference book as well as being a great repository of CKD info.

I suggest joining Tanya's support group and posting details of Moby's labs. They may be able to give you a leg up the ladder so that you'll be able to get the right treatments for Moby in place much faster than wading through the whole site trying to find what he needs from a standing start. They can also help you with diet. Saoirse's early stage II. I can't find a food she can eat to suit her pancreatitis issues that is also low in phosphorus so I'm using aluminium hydroxide binder to address this and continuing to feed her her FD-suitable diet.

There's also a feline CKD support group on Yahoo.



Mogs
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[manxcat419]

Hi Marcie

My Rosa is an OTJ diabetic and is also CKD (she's gone from Stage 2 on diagnosis to currently being at Stage 3 though we're hoping to reduce her numbers now she's started on sub-q fluids). I have a list here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1E_HZnTcJdsr20Gpivo2ID1KQ9wlZAe1Xy3LDTDVRofU/edit?usp=sharing that I put together using mostly the info from the catinfo.org site which I changed a little to show the % calories from carbs and the % phosphorus as dry matter to make it easier for me to read when I'm shopping. I don't do the prescription diets at all for her - I refuse to jeopardize her OTJ status by increasing the carbs in her diet to a high level.

 

[Barri & Sonny]

Hi! My kitty is the same way. This list was provided by another member on here...all foods under 10 % carbs (for the diabetes) and under 1% phos (for CKD) Alternatively, you can also get a phosphorus binder to put in your kittys food that he is already eating

 

[Marciegee]

I suggest joining Tanya's support group and posting details of Moby's labs.

I didn't even SEE that there was a support group on that site! Thank you for pointing that out, I am joining tonight!

I have a list here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1E_HZnTcJdsr20Gpivo2ID1KQ9wlZAe1Xy3LDTDVRofU/edit?usp=sharing that I put together using mostly the info from the catinfo.org site which I changed a little to show the % calories from carbs and the % phosphorus as dry matter to make it easier for me to read when I'm shopping.

Hi! My kitty is the same way. This list was provided by another member on here...all foods under 10 % carbs (for the diabetes) and under 1% phos (for CKD) Alternatively, you can also get a phosphorus binder to put in your kittys food that he is already eating

Thank you, Manx and Barri & Sonny, both so very much for sharing your food lists! This is immensely helpful! I am going to review these tonight and see what I can pick up this weekend for testing.

I really appreciate all your starting points and resources. We went to learn how to give Moby fluids tonight and I nearly passed out after I put the needle in. Soooo.... feeling pretty overwhelmed in all ways. At least one thing is working in my favor, I know how to manage the diabetes!

THANK YOU BUNCHES!!! XOXO

 

[manxcat419]

Marcie, if you can find a local store where you can buy just a can or two of various flavors to try, once you find which ones are going to work it's way cheaper to order from Chewy.com. I usually put in an order about every 3 months for a few cases of various flavors of food - it works out way cheaper that way.

Oh, and don't worry about the fluids - you will get used to it. I cried the first time I had to give Shadow her fluids - I'd only ever handled watching the bag and the line until then. And even though I'd got used to Shadow getting fluids, I still cried the first time we had to stick that huge needle into Rosa - I actually had to have my husband do the bit with the needle the first time because I just couldn't do it to her. But it does get easier - just like the insulin shots get easier. You can do this because Moby needs you to learn.

 

[Critter Mom]

@manxcat419 -

 

[Anitafrnhamer]

Just to chime in on a couple of things here. I always had a healthy respect for Weruva foods, a little pricey but the Steak Frites are both low carb and low phosphorus. Nutritional information here: http://www.weruva.com/truluxe-nutrition.php

Onto the fluids. You will most likely be given 18 ga needles which we lovingly refer to as "harpoons", I would suggest getting a smaller gauge needle Terumo Ultra Thin Wall. I got mine from http://www.calvetsupply.com/category/Hypodermic_Needles. They have the lowest price and you can also get your drip sets from them as well.

 

[manxcat419]

I always had a healthy respect for Weruva foods, a little pricey but the Steak Frites are both low carb and low phosphorus.

The only thing I would say with Weruva is that because of the price, I would definitely try to get just a couple of cans before you commit to buying a full tray of them. I've tried our cats on every flavor I have on the list I posted earlier. They were picked at the first couple of times I put them out and ignored completely after that...not one out of the 5 cats here likes them. They are a good quality food, but the best food in the world is no good if kitty won't eat it.

I would suggest getting a smaller gauge needle Terumo Ultra Thin Wall.

I agree. My husband likes using the 18 ga needles because Shadow never really objected to them so he's used to them. Rosa hates them - we switched to the Terumo UTW 22 ga - fluids take a little longer, but at least we're not hurting her to get them done.

 

[Marciegee]

But it does get easier - just like the insulin shots get easier. You can do this because Moby needs you to learn.

Thank you for the vote of confidence and for sharing your own experience! That big needle just seems CRAZY to me! Today will be our first time doing fluids on our own and I'm trying hard to keep a calm and peaceful spirit in myself for Moby. When my husband was a poor college kid he used to give plasma for $20 a pop, so needles don't phase him one bit. I will definitely be opting for him to do the deed! Thanks for the hugs!!!

Just to chime in on a couple of things here. I always had a healthy respect for Weruva foods.

Onto the fluids. You will most likely be given 18 ga needles which we lovingly refer to as "harpoons", I would suggest getting a smaller gauge needle Terumo Ultra Thin Wall.

Weruva seems to be a very solid choice. My only issue (actually it's Moby's) is that he doesn't like the shreddy consistency of the meat. BUT, we may be able to get around that if I get industrious and blend it with a little unsalted chicken stock. And thanks for the tip on the needles. I am adding that to my list of links to buy! I totally looks and feels like a harpoon. Eeesh. *shiver*

 

[Critter Mom]

Don't have experience or wisdom to share but I've got plenty of these for you:




Mogs
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[Marciegee]

You are so nice @Critter Mom!!! Thank you!! XOXO

 

[Critter Mom]

I'd be in the same state as yourself ...

 

[manxcat419]

And thanks for the tip on the needles. I am adding that to my list of links to buy! I totally looks and feels like a harpoon. Eeesh. *shiver*

Marcie, I bought 300 Terumo UTW 22 ga a couple of weeks ago. If you want me to send you a few to try out, just drop me a PM with your address so you can give them a try before committing to buying a full box.

 

[Marciegee]

If you want me to send you a few to try out, just drop me a PM with your address so you can give them a try before committing to buying a full box.

Oh my goodness, that is very generous of you! I will PM you. You are so kind to offer!

 

[manxcat419]

You're very welcome Marcie. I know how tough it can be to find the best way to get this done for you and Moby. If I can help in some small way with a few needles for you to try out, then I'm very happy to be able to do that for you.

 

[tiffmaxee]

I recently started Max on fluids. I'm using the terumo 21g and I got an IV pole on Amazon. It goes really fast.

Food is driving me crazy. I thought Nulo was slightly over 1% phosphorus but it's 1.7 for the chicken and turkey and the lamb and beef is 1.3 so I'm in the hunt again. Wellness turkey is about 1.04 and he likes it. I e already had to start binder. Max jumped up in his creatinine really fast, in 4 months from 2.6 to 5.3 back to 4.3.

 

[Marciegee]

@tiffmaxee, Moby's creatinine was really fast, too. In October he was fine, and then this February, he was over 3.9. I have found the Wellness Core options meet both parameters of phosphorus under 1% and carbs under 10%. Also: Max Cat Chicken and Avoderm Chicken as well. He's pate' only so it's been hard to find something he'll eat - even with blending and mincing the food. UGH! I think my vet didn't provide me with full blood results, like phosphorus levels, so I don't know about the binder yet, just realized I was missing that and need to get that report from them.

 

[tiffmaxee]

@Marciegee thanks for the food suggestions.

 

[Critter Mom]

I think my vet didn't provide me with full blood results, like phosphorus levels, so I don't know about the binder yet, just realized I was missing that and need to get that report from them.

Helps to keep an eye on all electrolyte levels (inc. potassium).

.

 

[tiffmaxee]

Only thing about potassium is that it can be a little low from diabetes. I started to supplement Max but he went right up to 4.5 from one test at 3.8. In the past he would occasionally go that low only to come back up to 4.1 on his own. With the CKD advancing I added the potassium. Since I've started fluids I stopped until I get another test to see how he us doing. I definitely didn't see any changes in him while on it and too high is dangerous too. Wish there was a way to see how it's going without vet visits and blood tests.

 

[Critter Mom]

Wish there was a way to see how it's going without vet visits and blood tests.

I've said that to myself many a time recently, Elise. It's really hard working in the 'semi-dark'. I keep wishing for all manner of home-use blood marker meters.

Thank you for the additional information on potassium levels. How are you and Max keeping in general?


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