Started caninsulin about a month ago, results are not good enough

[hellen_maggie]

Hi everyone. This is my second post on FDMB, and I would really appreciate any guidance.
My cat, Maggie, was diagnosed with diabetes about a month and a half ago. She has been on Caninsulin for one month, as this is the only insulin our vet prescribes. I understand that Lantus is the insulin most commonly recommended on FDMB, but for several reasons we chose to initially follow our long-time vet’s protocol and try Caninsulin first.
I am also working on transitioning Maggie from dry food to wet food, but this has been very challenging due to her very sensitive stomach. After an extremely slow transition, we managed to get her to eat about 80 g of wet food per day along with her dry food. Unfortunately, she experienced two episodes of vomiting and diarrhea, so we had to stop and return to dry food only because we think that wet food might be contributing to these GI issues. Because of this, we are unsure how to safely continue the transition to wet food. During this past month, we have had two emergency vet visits for dehydration, where she received fluids and anti-nausea injections.
This has been an extremely difficult month for us emotionally.
According to Maggie’s spreadsheet, up until her most recent GI episode three days ago, her numbers were dropping fairly well around +3 to +3.5 after the shot. However, her preshot numbers have remained high and have never come down. Our vet’s recommendation is to increase the dose, but we are very hesitant after an episode where Maggie dropped to 52. She appeared very disoriented and weak, and we were afraid of hypoglycemia.
Since restarting insulin yesterday after the vomiting/diarrhea resolved, her numbers now barely drop after the shot, which has left us very confused and unsure how to proceed.
We would really appreciate any advice on whether this pattern is typical for Caninsulin, how to approach dosing safely and whether we should be considering a change in insulin
Right now we feel overwhelmed and unsure how to best help Maggie, and any guidance would be greatly appreciated.


Thank you so much for your time and support.

 

[Lara & Luciole (Lu)]

Yes. You should definitely get a change in insulin, to either Lantus or ProZinc.
Caninsulin is for dogs, has a short duration, and is hard on a cat's body.
Insist on an appropriate insulin.

Your vet needs to update their knowledge to modern, current standards.

 

[CORKY]

Welcome back Helen and Maggie
I can understand your frustration, but is important that in that in order to stabilize Maggie as Lara said Caninsulin is a dog insulin, your vet knows this it hits had and fast in a cat, and as Lara said the bets insulin for cats are Lantus and ProZinc they are a 12-hur insulin and easy on the cats system. We have many members from Canada that use Lantus, perhaps you are getting the insulin from your vet and that's what he wants to sell you, he can give you a prescription to purchase the Lantus /Glargine, at your local pharmacy it is a human insulin, so I am sure is available. As far as the diet, an upset stomach can result if you change from dry to food too quick as well as resulting in BG changes, low BG drops, to transition from dry to food is a very slow process, especially with GI issues, in Maggi's case the best way is take away 3 tsps of dry/replaced by wet mixing it well, also place 1 tsp of water in each meal and as the day/meals go by increase a tsp more in each meal, removing 1more tsp of the wet until all that Maggie is eating is the wet food. and yes when you take Maggie to the Vet he could increase the dose, unfortunately and probably unnecessary, when with the transition from wet to dry will assist the insulin to have better stable numbers, higher dose will cause Maggie to have extremely lower numbers and possible hypoglycemia, remember Caninsulin hits hard and fast, It seems like your vet needs to be better informed on Feline Diabetes, ask questions, tell him you are not comfortable yet for a higher dose, that you are slowly transitioning from dry to wet, please do not be sold on "prescribed" food, there is nothing prescribed about these foods we or dry, they contain more that 20% carbs. Dog diabetes is not treated as you would a cat with diabetes
Remember, you want was best for Maggie, you are in control, you pay your vet, think of it as when you go to your
Primary Dr. you want to know about everything about a diagnose and he should have all the answers, the right answers, you have been doing your research and homework here, so you have the answers, maybe you have something to teach your vet, if he refuses to change insulin, perhaps is time for another vet, experienced in Feline Diabetes, otherwise Maggie will not be able to stabilize, high BG fast drops in BG is not good for Maggie's system,

 

[hellen_maggie]

Welcome back Helen and Maggie
I can understand your frustration, but is important that in that in order to stabilize Maggie as Lara said Caninsulin is a dog insulin, your vet knows this it hits had and fast in a cat, and as Lara said the bets insulin for cats are Lantus and ProZinc they are a 12-hur insulin and easy on the cats system. We have many members from Canada that use Lantus, perhaps you are getting the insulin from your vet and that's what he wants to sell you, he can give you a prescription to purchase the Lantus /Glargine, at your local pharmacy it is a human insulin, so I am sure is available. As far as the diet, an upset stomach can result if you change from dry to food too quick as well as resulting in BG changes, low BG drops, to transition from dry to food is a very slow process, especially with GI issues, in Maggi's case the best way is take away 3 tsps of dry/replaced by wet mixing it well, also place 1 tsp of water in each meal and as the day/meals go by increase a tsp more in each meal, removing 1more tsp of the wet until all that Maggie is eating is the wet food. and yes when you take Maggie to the Vet he could increase the dose, unfortunately and probably unnecessary, when with the transition from wet to dry will assist the insulin to have better stable numbers, higher dose will cause Maggie to have extremely lower numbers and possible hypoglycemia, remember Caninsulin hits hard and fast, It seems like your vet needs to be better informed on Feline Diabetes, ask questions, tell him you are not comfortable yet for a higher dose, that you are slowly transitioning from dry to wet, please do not be sold on "prescribed" food, there is nothing prescribed about these foods we or dry, they contain more that 20% carbs. Dog diabetes is not treated as you would a cat with diabetes
Remember, you want was best for Maggie, you are in control, you pay your vet, think of it as when you go to your
Primary Dr. you want to know about everything about a diagnose and he should have all the answers, the right answers, you have been doing your research and homework here, so you have the answers, maybe you have something to teach your vet, if he refuses to change insulin, perhaps is time for another vet, experienced in Feline Diabetes, otherwise Maggie will not be able to stabilize, high BG fast drops in BG is not good for Maggie's system

Hi Corky, thank you for your response!
My main concern with switching to Lantus is the level of monitoring it typically requires. From what I understand, Lantus is a long-acting, depot insulin, which means dose adjustments and safety rely on frequent blood glucose testing, especially during the initial regulation period. Given our current work schedules, we are unable to perform multiple daytime and nighttime tests on a consistent basis.
At present, even with Caninsulin, which has a relatively early nadir (around +3 to +4 hours) , we are already struggling to manage monitoring. We are away from home for extended periods due to work, often up to 9 hours per day, which makes close supervision difficult regardless of the insulin type used.
Another complicating factor is Maggie’s feeding behavior. She is a very selective eater, and I cannot be confident that she will reliably eat while we are away. We have attempted to use an automatic feeder, but she refuses to use it despite repeated training attempts. This increases our concern about safety, particularly when using a long-acting insulin that depends on consistent food intake.
While I recognize that many caregivers successfully manage Lantus alongside full-time work, given our current limitations (work hours, inability to perform frequent testing, and feeding challenges), Lantus feels unmanageable for us at this stage. Our priority is to ensure Maggie’s safety while maintaining a treatment plan that is realistically sustainable long-term.
At the same time, what has been emotionally devastating for us is that, so far, Maggie’s progress does not appear to be improving. Despite all our efforts, we are not seeing meaningful stabilization yet, and this has left us feeling overwhelmed and discouraged.
We are trying to do everything correctly, but right now we feel uncertain about how to effectively help her in a way that is both medically sound and realistically manageable for us. Our frustration does not come from a lack of willingness, but from feeling stuck between what is considered “ideal” treatment and what we can safely and consistently provide under our current circumstances.
We truly want to do what is best for Maggie and to give her the best possible chance, but at this point we are feeling exhausted, anxious, and unsure of the next right step.

 

[CORKY]

I can understand your frustration and how much you have on your plate it is your decision as well as there are solutions, The Caninsulin given if you are not home a a sudden big drop on BG occurs, there ca be the possibility of a hypo episode, testing is an issue, you’re out for 9 hours a day at work, you can get the Libre it works with a sensor on Maggie’s back side, you use a phone, any phone an old neglected phone. And you will get hourly readings, for Maggie’s health prevention, by continuing the high carb dry food, cats cannot digest carbs, the food has minimal moisture, and other organs such as the kidneys, UTIs , and of course pancreas that do not get a chance to heal, is worth thinking about the risks,,when you are home for a day or weekend you can train Maggie on the wet feeder, by given at meal time while in front of the feeder 1 pc of the dry, she’ll think is a treat, you know is a trap it won’t happen the first time you try this it may take a few days, but trust me when she’s hungry enough she will eat, as long as she eats a few bites before shot, you’re good to shoot, otherwise, you will not be able to ever stabilize risking other illnessesyou got this, with a bit of patience it can happen

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

I have a couple of thoughts....

Maggie may be a very good candidate for a continuous glucose monitor (CGM). The FreeStyle Libre has been used for monitoring a cat's blood glucose. A sensor is applied to the cat every 2 weeks and you get a reading from an app on your phone. I'm tagging @Staci & Ivy who has a great deal of experience with the Libre and can answer any questions you may have.

Lantus is less forgiving than Prozinc when it comes to being on a 12-hour schedule for insulin. I don't know if that's an issue for you. As far as insulin and monitoring, the minimum number of tests that are needed with either Lantus or Prozinc is 4 -- you need your pre-shot tests and a minimum of one test during both the AM and PM cycles. It looks like you're getting a PM test at +3.5. With Lantus, onset begins at around +2. If you saw that numbers were dropping fast, that would be a signal that you needed to keep an eye on the PM cycle. To be honest, this would be true for Caninsulin as well. In fact, it is likely that numbers would be dropping harder and faster with Caninsulin than with Lantus. With the data on your spreadsheet, there's no way to know if the high pre-shot numbers are due to the Caninsulin wearing off or a bounce due to Maggi dropping lower during the cycle and spiking into high numbers as a result of her pancreas and liver pumping out a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones.

Just out of curiosity, have you had evaluated Maggie for inflammatory bowel disease? Diarrhea and vomiting are typical symptoms. Management of IBD isn't so much on whether a cat needs a dry or canned food diet. It's more an issue of the cat's response to certain proteins. You can think of IBD as an "allergy" to certain proteins -- poultry and beef are common problems. I have an IBD cat. She was diagnosed based on a biopsy. I had been feeding my cats a diet that was almost entirely poultry. I switched her to novel proteins. She now eats a selection of pork, venison, and rabbit. She was on prednisolone, as well. Her IBD is under excellent control. The only time she's had a flare up was after one of the vet techs gave her a ton of chicken treats. If IBD hasn't been ruled out, you may want to give it some thought. I'd also encourage you to not feel compelled to feed Maggie a prescription diabetic diet. There is nothing in either the Royal Canin or Pro-Plan that makes it any better for a diabetic cat than any other commercially available cat food. In fact, the Royal Canin is very high in carbohydrates making it inappropriate for a diabetic cat. You may want to try giving Maggie cat food flavor she has no experience eating. Just read the labels -- sometimes the manufacturers include more than the just protein that is listed as the flavor of the food.

 

[hellen_maggie]

I have a couple of thoughts....

Maggie may be a very good candidate for a continuous glucose monitor (CGM). The FreeStyle Libre has been used for monitoring a cat's blood glucose. A sensor is applied to the cat every 2 weeks and you get a reading from an app on your phone. I'm tagging @Staci & Ivy who has a great deal of experience with the Libre and can answer any questions you may have.

Lantus is less forgiving than Prozinc when it comes to being on a 12-hour schedule for insulin. I don't know if that's an issue for you. As far as insulin and monitoring, the minimum number of tests that are needed with either Lantus or Prozinc is 4 -- you need your pre-shot tests and a minimum of one test during both the AM and PM cycles. It looks like you're getting a PM test at +3.5. With Lantus, onset begins at around +2. If you saw that numbers were dropping fast, that would be a signal that you needed to keep an eye on the PM cycle. To be honest, this would be true for Caninsulin as well. In fact, it is likely that numbers would be dropping harder and faster with Caninsulin than with Lantus. With the data on your spreadsheet, there's no way to know if the high pre-shot numbers are due to the Caninsulin wearing off or a bounce due to Maggi dropping lower during the cycle and spiking into high numbers as a result of her pancreas and liver pumping out a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones.

Just out of curiosity, have you had evaluated Maggie for inflammatory bowel disease? Diarrhea and vomiting are typical symptoms. Management of IBD isn't so much on whether a cat needs a dry or canned food diet. It's more an issue of the cat's response to certain proteins. You can think of IBD as an "allergy" to certain proteins -- poultry and beef are common problems. I have an IBD cat. She was diagnosed based on a biopsy. I had been feeding my cats a diet that was almost entirely poultry. I switched her to novel proteins. She now eats a selection of pork, venison, and rabbit. She was on prednisolone, as well. Her IBD is under excellent control. The only time she's had a flare up was after one of the vet techs gave her a ton of chicken treats. If IBD hasn't been ruled out, you may want to give it some thought. I'd also encourage you to not feel compelled to feed Maggie a prescription diabetic diet. There is nothing in either the Royal Canin or Pro-Plan that makes it any better for a diabetic cat than any other commercially available cat food. In fact, the Royal Canin is very high in carbohydrates making it inappropriate for a diabetic cat. You may want to try giving Maggie cat food flavor she has no experience eating. Just read the labels -- sometimes the manufacturers include more than the just protein that is listed as the flavor of the food.

Dear Sienna and Gabby,
I am aware of the Libre, but please believe me when I say that there is absolutely no chance Maggie would tolerate it. I know my cat very well, and I am certain she would be extremely stressed having bandages around her body 24/7. There is no way she wouldn’t remove it within five minutes. Even taking her to the vet is a traumatic experience, she nearly faints in the car from stress , so the transition itself is already very difficult. Let alone placing and replacing a Libre sensor every two weeks. For this reason, we have ruled out the CGM option entirely.
At the moment, we are already doing 4 daily tests: two pre-shot tests and two tests at +3.5 every day. My husband actually leaves work and comes home for about 10 minutes around noon (the only time he can) just to test her, so that we can feel safer. This gives us additional safety during weekdays when we are working. We have therefore scheduled injections at 8:30 AM and 8:30 PM, and in this way we feel we have some degree of control with Caninsulin. With Lantus, however, we do not feel we would be able to maintain the same level of safety and control.
The truth is that our vet insists that the very high pre-shot numbers are due to bouncing, and that by slightly increasing the dose and holding it steady for several days, we will gradually see the pre-shots come down. I am very skeptical about this, since I have never seen low pre-shots from the start of insulin treatment up until now. In fact, on the days when she did not receive insulin due to vomiting, her blood glucose was actually lower.
Additionally, over the last two days , for reasons I cannot understand , her nadirs have stopped being good. They are significantly higher compared to the previous days, which is something that worries me a lot. Tomorrow morning I will be going back to the vet to discuss this.
Also, Maggie has never been evaluated for IBD, and this is another issue I plan to bring up with the vet tomorrow.
Finally, I am very concerned by the fact that the vet insists on increasing the dose, even though on her most recent dose (1.75 units, always measured using U-100 syringes), her nadirs in previous days reached 78. From what I have read in the Caninsulin protocol, nadirs below 90 indicate that the dose should be reduced, not increased. I mentioned this to the vet, and he replied that even with a nadir of 50 a cat does not become hypoglycemic, and that we need to increase the dose in order to see the pre-shots come down.
Honestly, I don’t know whether I should persist with Caninsulin for a little longer in the hope of achieving the desired result, or if I’m simply wasting time.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Bottom line -- you know your cat and what is likely to work or not work. I was simply raising an option that you may not have previously considered.

I'm attaching a document from the American Animal Hospital Assn that provides their guidelines for the treatment of diabetes. You might want to look it over and give a copy to your vet. While your vet may be a fan of Caninsulin, the AAHA supports the use of either Lantus or Prozinc for diabetic cats. Sometimes a vet needs to see the recommendations from one of their professional organizations vs from a caregiver making a request. To be honest, my observations regarding whether you need to be concerned about Lantus are misplaced. It's much gentler than Caninsulin. It's also highly likely that the high pre-shot numbers with Caninsulin are due to it's not having a 12-hour duration. It is relatively shorter acting especially given a cat's fast metabolism.

If there's bouncing, it can take several days for a bounce to clear. Also, insulin needs vary. External factors, such as stress, can cause a rise in blood glucose. If Maggie is as stressed as you've described going to the vet, any readings you get there are going to be inaccurate due to stress hyperglycemia.

 

[hellen_maggie]

Bottom line -- you know your cat and what is likely to work or not work. I was simply raising an option that you may not have previously considered.

I'm attaching a document from the American Animal Hospital Assn that provides their guidelines for the treatment of diabetes. You might want to look it over and give a copy to your vet. While your vet may be a fan of Caninsulin, the AAHA supports the use of either Lantus or Prozinc for diabetic cats. Sometimes a vet needs to see the recommendations from one of their professional organizations vs from a caregiver making a request. To be honest, my observations regarding whether you need to be concerned about Lantus are misplaced. It's much gentler than Caninsulin. It's also highly likely that the high pre-shot numbers with Caninsulin are due to it's not having a 12-hour duration. It is relatively shorter acting especially given a cat's fast metabolism.

If there's bouncing, it can take several days for a bounce to clear. Also, insulin needs vary. External factors, such as stress, can cause a rise in blood glucose. If Maggie is as stressed as you've described going to the vet, any readings you get there are going to be inaccurate due to stress hyperglycemia.

Thank you so much for sharing all this valuable information with me, I truly appreciate the time and experience you are willing to share.
I also wanted to clarify that I never take blood glucose readings at the vet. All of Maggie’s tests are done at home, using a human glucose meter, precisely to avoid stress-related hyperglycemia.
That said, if you would be willing, I would really appreciate your advice on how Lantus could be managed safely in our situation, assuming we follow the Start Low Go Slow (SLGS) protocol for added safety. My biggest concern is how to build a realistic and safe plan given our work schedule. We are away from home for about 9 hours a day, from approximately 8:30–9:00 AM until around 5:30 PM, with the possibility of only one very brief visit (about 10 minutes) around noon, at approximately 12:00 PM. I would be grateful for any guidance on how monitoring/feeding could be structured under these constraints in order to maximize Maggie’s safety.I honestly can’t understand how so many caregivers manage to work while also using a long-acting insulin. I’ve read some information on the forum, but I would really like to hear your opinion as well


Thank you again, your input means a lot to me!

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Full disclosure: Gabby crossed the Bridge some time ago. However, throughout the time that she was diabetic I worked a full time job. Given that I work in healthcare, the hours were not always cooperative with shot time or Gabby's tendency to have her numbers drop like a rock. There were accommodations that I had to make. The good news was that my workplace was not far from home either when I was living in Chicago or when I moved to Columbus. And, fortunately, I had a great deal of control over my schedule.

Knowing your cat is essential. You can't always assume that the nadir is a mid-cycle. It's important to periodically get a curve (testing every 2 hours for a 12 hour period). The curve will give you information about your cat's onset, nadir, and duration.

Having a timed feeder was a solution that worked for me. I knew that food would be available and Gabby was good about looking for food (or me, if I was home) if her numbers were dropping. Gabby also had an early nadir. Most of the time, her nadir was at around +3. As a result and despite my not having been a morning person, her shot time was at 5:00. This gave me a few hours before I left the house to be sure she was in safe numbers. If I was worried, I could rush home at lunch and check on her. If I had a late meeting, I would be sure to schedule it at 5:30 PM (this was before working from home was a "thing") so I could run home, test, feed, and shoot and run back to the office. I would then be home in time to be sure Gabby was in safe numbers.

I also had friends who were understanding about my needing to check on Gabby. So, if we were going to dinner and a movie, unless I was certain her numbers weren't dropping, we'd swing my my place so I could check on her. Again, it meant that I could adjust the carb content of what was in the timed feeder if I needed to. I also had good friend who were cat parents.

At the time that Gabby was diagnosed, SLGS was not used as much as members use it now. I was following TR. So, even with a more aggressive approach to dosing, it was rare that I was panicking over Gabby's numbers. But, I'm a numbers person and if you look at Gabby's spreadsheet, you'll see that I collected a LOT of data. If I couldn't get numbers in the middle of the day during the week, I would collect information on weekends and holidays. Again, know your cat! Even though cats hate to be predictable, you can make educated guesses.

I felt far more reassured with Lantus than with any other insulin. Gabby was started on Novolin when she was first diagnosed and in the kitty ICU. In many ways, it's similar to Caninsulin. Once I found FDMB and members educated me about Lantus, I had a discussion with my regular vet who agreed that Novolin was more of a "dog" insulin than for cats and I switched. Interestingly, she was not familiar with TR and I gave her the research articles. The compelling issues for me was that Lantus onset is not immediate. It starts to work about 2 hours after a shot. This gave me some bandwidth to monitor and see where her numbers were heading before I left for work and before I went to bed. Realistically, numbers with any insulin can drop but the drop is less precipitous with Lantus than with either Caninsulin or Novolin. Also, from the standpoint of regulation, Maggie will spend more of the cycle in better numbers given the longer duration of Lantus or Prozinc.

One of our previous moderators started this thread on using TR if your work full time. A number of members voiced their experience and recommendations.

Please let me know if this information helped and feel feel to keep asking questions. Others may want to chime in as well.

 

[squeem3]

A newer 2025 guideline on treating diabetes in cats that you can share with your vet: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1098612X251399103

 

[CORKY]

The Libre sensor does not require bandages of any sort, cats don’t even know is there, and replacing it is like taking a wrapper off a lollipop, once the first one is on by shaving the area where the sensor is being placed, the only thing to do is re-shave the same area open the box unscrew the container where the sensor is. And stick it on the shaved area, it has its own non-irritant glue

 

[squeem3]

Some people do keep a baby t shirt or some other wrap over the Libre to keep the cat from scratching at it. @Staci & Ivy has pictures of her cat wearing a tube top over the Libre. There's also some pics here: Getting Started With Continuous Glucose Monitors (CGMs) for Diabetic Cats

 

[Staci & Ivy]

I am happy to provide more information on the Libre if you have any interest at all. It seems you don’t want to consider one at this point and I don’t want to inundate you if you’re opposed.

If you’d like photos of what I use to cover the Libre on my cat (a tube top) I am happy to share them.
We are all here to try to help you.

 

[Allie & Gen]

I would really appreciate your advice on how Lantus could be managed safely in our situation, assuming we follow the Start Low Go Slow (SLGS) protocol for added safety. My biggest concern is how to build a realistic and safe plan given our work schedule. We are away from home for about 9 hours a day, from approximately 8:30–9:00 AM until around 5:30 PM, with the possibility of only one very brief visit (about 10 minutes) around noon, at approximately 12:00 PM. I would be grateful for any guidance on how monitoring/feeding could be structured under these constraints in order to maximize Maggie’s safety.I honestly can’t understand how so many caregivers manage to work while also using a long-acting insulin.

I work a similar schedule and am away from home at minimum 8 hours/day, 4 days a week (I get one work from home day). I can't usually stop at home at all during the day, or not easily. I do have a couple of factors that make my cat a little easier to manage with Lantus (he's always been a grazer and will eat a little at a time throughout the day, and he tolerates a Libre), but I can nevertheless appreciate the challenge you're facing.

If there are ways to work with your cat to get her to eat during the day--there are a few approaches people use, such as putting out some wet food that has been frozen, which thaws later in the day and tastes "fresh"--that would help a lot, though I know you've made some attempts and it gets exhausting to keep trying different things for a result that just won't happen (I've had this experience with oral medications, which so far has proven to be nearly impossible in 95% of cases with my cat).

(Re: transitioning from dry to wet food, you've been browsing the forums so you've probably already seen this, but just in case you haven't: here are some tips for the process. I'm not finding all of it helpful, but it covers a lot.)

I don't think there's a way to absolutely guarantee that any cat won't hit risky numbers in the middle of a cycle (AM or PM), but with as much testing as you can do, especially on weekends/days off when you can test more or even do a full curve, you can get a sense of how your cat's system responds and be able to predict some things based on pre-shot and +2 numbers, etc. You might also be able to set up some pet cameras (I believe there are some fairly cheap and effective ones available; @Tim & Pookey tends to know more about these things) which you could use to check up on her while away, depending on your work environment of course.

I don't want to push about the Libre, but many cats are very stressed by car rides and vet visits, etc, and some still do tolerate the sensor; @Staci & Ivy's cat is apparently a royal terror at the vet (said with great affection, Staci), and @Brianna & Xander's cat is extremely anxious; she and her partner give him gabapentin before each Libre application to help him get through it. My cat was not a fan at first, and he "went on strike" (as we say here) when I originally put him in a top that prevented him from ripping off the sensor (acting like he could barely walk; some cats even just fall over). He adjusted in time. I'm not saying that Maggie necessarily would, of course; every cat is different, and you know yours better than anyone. I'm just sharing in case it's something you want to consider more at any point. The Libre is extremely helpful for people who have to leave their cats for extended periods on a regular basis. (While I can't stop at home at all most days, if I see a potential emergency--if his numbers are dropping steeply--I can use my lunch break to get home for maybe 20 minutes to give him food etc, especially if I time it carefully to when he's approaching the danger zone. I've done this twice.)

I can't speak to the details of different types of insulin, as my cat has only ever been on Lantus (this time around, and years ago when he was originally diagnosed, before remission). But I am wondering - I know you do your testing at home to avoid the extra stress of doing it at the vet. Have you been able to do a full curve (over a weekend or other time off) at all? It seems like there are gaps in what you and your vet know about how your cat reacts to her current insulin over time, which makes it really hard to get an accurate sense of what may or may not be working and why.

Apologies if anything above is redundant/if I've missed anything in your posts. Wishing you and Maggie all the best with this process, however you're able to pursue it!

 

[hellen_maggie]

I am happy to provide more information on the Libre if you have any interest at all. It seems you don’t want to consider one at this point and I don’t want to inundate you if you’re opposed.

If you’d like photos of what I use to cover the Libre on my cat (a tube top) I am happy to share them.
We are all here to try to help you.

Dear Staci & Ivy,
Thank you so much for offering to help. I would really appreciate it if you could share the photos of the tube top you use to cover the Libre on your cat.
I also wanted to ask how you usually place the Libre, do you do it yourself or do you go to your veterinarian each time? And in your experience, is the process generally difficult?
Thank you again for your support

 

[CORKY]

Dear Staci & Ivy,
Thank you so much for offering to help. I would really appreciate it if you could share the photos of the tube top you use to cover the Libre on your cat.
I also wanted to ask how you usually place the Libre, do you do it yourself or do you go to your veterinarian each time? And in your experience, is the process generally difficult?
Thank you again for your support

The sensor can be placed at home is a 1-2-3 it has very elementary instructions, Corky used it , if you want to feel more comfortable you can get the first one done by the vet, make sure you are present so so can see the simplicity, make sure you ask your vet for a continuous prescription for the sensors, since you need to replace it every 14 days and always have a couple at hand in case you get a faulty sensor just like the strips, I have had bad strips,, I’m sure Staci will post you soon but here’s one example of the tube sweater from CHEWY.COM, you can get them at any large pet supermarket, I have seen shorter sweaters

 

[Staci & Ivy]

Dear Staci & Ivy,
Thank you so much for offering to help. I would really appreciate it if you could share the photos of the tube top you use to cover the Libre on your cat.
I also wanted to ask how you usually place the Libre, do you do it yourself or do you go to your veterinarian each time? And in your experience, is the process generally difficult?
Thank you again for your support

Hi Eleni,
I do apply the Libre myself, with no assistance.
My vet applied the very first one and I took over from there. That was 3 years ago. I never looked back. My cat is highly stressed going to the vet so I knew I’d have to learn to do this myself. And I did (mind over matter).

I place it on either side of her spine, on her back (not the side, so she doesn’t lay on the sensor).
It’s really very easy. Follow the directions in the document we prepared, which was linked here a few posts ago.
Once you do it a few times you’ll have great confidence.
If I can do it with a fractious cat, many can do it as well!
(She actually tolerates it quite well).
The Facebook group Freestyle Libre for Dogs and Cats is an excellent resource as well. I highly recommend it.
Here are some pics of what I use (I made a tube top myself very simply with one seam. But you can purchase a tube top on Amazon (or I’m sure other places). My cat is around 14+ pounds.
I actually bought a tube top in a “juniors “ department in a store (size XS)
You could also use a wide headband (look online, Amazon, etc).

The one below is black and blends in with her fur, but you can see it is about 10-12” wide. So not that thick and doesn’t cover her entire body.
(She doesn’t like a tee shirt which had sleeves and covered her chest. I had an epiphany and tried this solution and it’s been much better)
But many cats don’t mind a tee shirt.

I hope this helps!

 

[hellen_maggie]

The sensor can be placed at home is a 1-2-3 it has very elementary instructions, Corky used it , if you want to feel more comfortable you can get the first one done by the vet, make sure you are present so so can see the simplicity, make sure you ask your vet for a continuous prescription for the sensors, since you need to replace it every 14 days and always have a couple at hand in case you get a faulty sensor just like the strips, I have had bad strips,, I’m sure Staci will post you soon but here’s one example of the tube sweater from CHEWY.COM, you can get them at any large pet supermarket, I have seen shorter sweatersView attachment 76352

Thank you so much for taking the time to share this information, i really appreciate it.
My main concern is how this would work during the warmer months of the year. Living in Greece, our temperatures feel like summer for almost half the year, so I worry that even very light fabric could make my girl uncomfortably warm, and I feel that would be distressing for her.
I was hoping that the Libre might be stable enough without any kind of covering, and also that it wouldn’t require a veterinary visit, at least for the first placement.
Another concern I have is that she might manage to remove it and that our dog, who tends to eat anything he finds on the floor, could grab it before we notice..he is a true predator!!!
The only thing I am certain of is that, at least in our case, nothing about managing diabetes is easy…

 

[hellen_maggie]

Hi Eleni,
I do apply the Libre myself, with no assistance.
My vet applied the very first one and I took over from there. That was 3 years ago. I never looked back. My cat is highly stressed going to the vet so I knew I’d have to learn to do this myself. And I did (mind over matter).

I place it on either side of her spine, on her back (not the side, so she doesn’t lay on the sensor).
It’s really very easy. Follow the directions in the document we prepared, which was linked here a few posts ago.
Once you do it a few times you’ll have great confidence.
If I can do it with a fractious cat, many can do it as well!
(She actually tolerates it quite well).
The Facebook group Freestyle Libre for Dogs and Cats is an excellent resource as well. I highly recommend it.
Here are some pics of what I use (I made a tube top myself very simply with one seam. But you can purchase a tube top on Amazon (or I’m sure other places). My cat is around 14+ pounds.
I actually bought a tube top in a “juniors “ department in a store (size XS)
You could also use a wide headband (look online, Amazon, etc).
View attachment 76353View attachment 76354View attachment 76355View attachment 76356View attachment 76357
The one below is black and blends in with her fur, but you can see it is about 10-12” wide. So not that thick and doesn’t cover her entire body.
(She doesn’t like a tee shirt which had sleeves and covered her chest. I had an epiphany and tried this solution and it’s been much better)
But many cats don’t mind a tee shirt.
View attachment 76358

Hi Eleni,
I do apply the Libre myself, with no assistance.
My vet applied the very first one and I took over from there. That was 3 years ago. I never looked back. My cat is highly stressed going to the vet so I knew I’d have to learn to do this myself. And I did (mind over matter).

I place it on either side of her spine, on her back (not the side, so she doesn’t lay on the sensor).
It’s really very easy. Follow the directions in the document we prepared, which was linked here a few posts ago.
Once you do it a few times you’ll have great confidence.
If I can do it with a fractious cat, many can do it as well!
(She actually tolerates it quite well).
The Facebook group Freestyle Libre for Dogs and Cats is an excellent resource as well. I highly recommend it.
Here are some pics of what I use (I made a tube top myself very simply with one seam. But you can purchase a tube top on Amazon (or I’m sure other places). My cat is around 14+ pounds.
I actually bought a tube top in a “juniors “ department in a store (size XS)
You could also use a wide headband (look online, Amazon, etc).
View attachment 76353View attachment 76354View attachment 76355View attachment 76356View attachment 76357
The one below is black and blends in with her fur, but you can see it is about 10-12” wide. So not that thick and doesn’t cover her entire body.
(She doesn’t like a tee shirt which had sleeves and covered her chest. I had an epiphany and tried this solution and it’s been much better)
But many cats don’t mind a tee shirt.
View attachment 76358

I hope this helps!

Thank you so much for your help!

 

[Staci & Ivy]

Thank you so much for taking the time to share this information, i really appreciate it.
My main concern is how this would work during the warmer months of the year. Living in Greece, our temperatures feel like summer for almost half the year, so I worry that even very light fabric could make my girl uncomfortably warm, and I feel that would be distressing for her.
I was hoping that the Libre might be stable enough without any kind of covering, and also that it wouldn’t require a veterinary visit, at least for the first placement.
Another concern I have is that she might manage to remove it and that our dog, who tends to eat anything he finds on the floor, could grab it before we notice..he is a true predator!!!
The only thing I am certain of is that, at least in our case, nothing about managing diabetes is easy…

You don’t ”need” a veterinary appointment to install the first one if you do your homework and read all of the information and feel comfortable installing it yourself.
Plus the vets tend to use glue which destroys the cat’s skin and also destroys the sensor so it’s advised not to use any kind of glue.

Some people use something like an ace bandage wrapped around their cats torso.
Some cats won’t mess with it at all (my cat will, I learned from giving her some freedom with no top and she pulled it off).
Of course, I understand your concern about your dog, eating it if you found it on the floor.

We all have to figure out what will work for us in our unique situations.
You are certainly welcome to keep communicating with us and we will try to come up with different ideas to help you

 

[Allie & Gen]

Hi again Eleni! Just for comparative purposes, I use a Kitty Holster brand harness (purchased from chewy.com) to cover the Libre for my cat, Gen. He did actually remove a sensor at least once (left it in my bed sheets), so it's been necessary to help prevent that. (That said, he hasn't been determined to keep removing it. If he really wanted to try, he could get at it under the harness, but he hasn't. It's been a good compromise because it's stable enough that he hasn't wound up accidentally grooming it off, but it's also not super restrictive.)

It's winter here and quite cold, but the material of the harness is light and doesn't cover a huge part of his body, so I think he'll be okay if he still needs it in the summer. (Summer in my part of the eastern US gets very hot and humid.)

One important thing about having a vet place the Libre, even just the first time (this is mentioned in a lot of resources, but I want to emphasize with personal experience) - it's important to ask them not to use surgical glue (sometimes called "vet bond") to attach it. Many vets do this as a matter of routine, to help prevent removal, but it's a problem. My vet tech used glue (this was before I knew better; I came here to the board for the first time right after he got the first Libre), and it had the exact drawbacks that get warned about in various resource materials: it almost certainly interfered with the sensor itself (I got some really wonky readings from my first sensor, and it failed very early; the ones I've put on myself since, without glue, have not had the same problems), and it also irritated Gen's skin quite a bit, to the point that I had to use prescription wipes on the site for awhile to help him heal. (It was also really hard to get all the glue off. I think all the last remaining bits are gone now, but it took weeks.)

That said, it depends on if your vet is cooperative and collaborative! Mine is - if I'd know better and firmly asked them not to use glue, they might have been surprised or looked at me funny, but they would have gone along with my request. If I have a vet visit that lines up with a future sensor change date, I may ask/allow them to do the installation, since Gen isn't terribly stressed at the vet (just in the car on the way there). I trust they will do it carefully based on my feedback and demonstrated experience. But Staci's right - you don't need the vet to do it even once. You probably do need a prescription (though I don't know how vet care and medical plans may differ internationally on this point).

About applying the Libre: I don't want to pretend that there's no struggle involved, though it depends on the cat! Gen has had to be restrained two out of the three times I've successfully applied it so far, and he made his feelings on the whole thing known and tried to escape. The first time was a particularly big fuss, and he was very angry and stressed. There's a learning curve for both me and him, and I imagine this is likely true for many, if not most, cats and owners. (The one time he hasn't had to be restrained, he was eating when I did the application. That said, I'd already shaved the area and had started to get a feel for how the applicator worked through practice. I couldn't have done it that way from the start, even if he'd stood there and tolerated it.) I think we will continue to get better at the process, and even the second time felt surprisingly easier than the first. And I don't have any help - it's just me!

And it's worth mentioning that sometimes the devices fail, have weird (thankfully, usually brief) glitches on occasion, and applications can fail too. Most commonly: sometimes the sensor wants to come away with the applicator, and if you don't use something small and flat like tweezers to hold it down by the paper, gently, it doesn't stay when you pull the applicator back - there's no second try with the applicator, so that sensor is now useless. I lost one that way before I really understood and started using tweezers every time (I think Staci uses a nail file or butter knife, which works just as well). And sometimes if your aim is a little off while you're learning, you can accidentally place it so that fur interferes and it doesn't stick properly, etc. These setbacks can be really frustrating, especially since the sensors aren't cheap - the "wasted" money hurts. It's been worth it to me, but it was also quite upsetting a couple of times, and I wouldn't want you to be taken unawares. I felt like I'd really messed up until a few other members shared their own trial and error stories with me.

Bottom line: using the Libre isn't perfect or perfectly easy, but it gets easier, it's very worth it for a lot of people and cats, and there are quite a few folks on this board who will help troubleshoot or commiserate if you run into a problem.

 

[Allie & Gen]

Oh, one more thing (sorry, I know, I talk a lot) - the Facebook group Staci mentioned has a really helpful document for applying the Libre which I still refer to (it links to videos and even offers a range of suggestions for ways to cover the sensor/help keep it on, some of which are very low coverage on the cat's body). That said, members have had varied experiences actually trying to interact with the group. They have very strict rules about posting and heavy moderation, and it can be off-putting. I was somewhat unpleasantly surprised, so I'm sharing that experience as well. But I wouldn't let it put me off using their resources! Anyway, okay, I'm done now. Best of luck.

 

[Staci & Ivy]

Oh, one more thing (sorry, I know, I talk a lot) - the Facebook group Staci mentioned has a really helpful document for applying the Libre which I still refer to (it links to videos and even offers a range of suggestions for ways to cover the sensor/help keep it on, some of which are very low coverage on the cat's body). That said, members have had varied experiences actually trying to interact with the group. They have very strict rules about posting and heavy moderation, and it can be off-putting. I was somewhat unpleasantly surprised, so I'm sharing that experience as well. But I wouldn't let it put me off using their resources! Anyway, okay, I'm done now. Best of luck.

All good point Allie, if the Facebook page somehow offends you, just be there as a member, you don’t have to interact with anyone if you don’t choose to