Stalling- please help. Djoko's uncontrolled diabetes

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Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Marj you would have been safe to have given the insulin at PMPS with a BG of 9.8 (176).
That is a safe number to give insulin.
With a lower preshot like 9.8 (176) he is not going to drop as far or as fast as if you give the insulin with a preshot of 28 (504).
If you shoot at say 9.8 (176) the drop will be much less than if you shot a preshot of 28 (504). You would still need to keep testing.

What is happening at the moment is Djoko is having a preshot of around 504 (28) and he is dropping low quickly and then bouncing up high again.
What I would like to see you doing is when you get a high preshot number, is to give the insulin and then test every 2 hours and see how fast the BG is dropping. We need to slow the fast drop down so that he doesn't keep bouncing high then low then high etc.
You can help with this by giving some food during the first half of the cycle to slow down the drop. Do you understand what I mean?
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The intent is to do a BG curve tomorrow. Yesterday I gave him a shot at 13.5 and he dropped super quick (see SS). I fed him at +2 3 tsp.
I will give it to him now because I need to do this BG curve. I will delay the entire thing. I know this is not great but yesterday night was hell.
 
Hi Marj,
I know it can seem scary but 13.5 down to 9.6 in 3 hours is not super quick. He did have a food bump at +1 up to 19.8 but that was just after eating. And you managed the drop really well. He only dropped to 6.7. (121) which is a very safe number.
When you are new to blue numbers they can be scary but we really want Djoko to be down in those numbers all the time..
You will have to shoot later tomorrow morning if you give the insulin later this evening.

If you are doing a curve tomorrow, try 'feeding that curve' to try and slow down the drop. If you can do that we can hopefully slow down the bouncing so high. So when you get a +2 tomorrow, if the BG is lower than the AMPS, give Djoko a small snack. Than if the +4 number is lower again, give another small snack etc..
I will try and be around to see how you go.
 
Thank you very much. I will try that. I will test Djoko at +2 tonight and feed him as well. I will also wake up at night to give him a snack. His ears are a complete mess. How do you manage that? He growled at me earlier.
How would you explain the number at 30.7 this morning ? I thought a bounce was when he dropped too quick. It seems that his drop was not that quick according to your email. I would like to understand.
Merci. M
 
Bounces can also happen when a cat drops into lower numbers than he is used to having.
So Djoko has been in high numbers for a while now and his body thinks that those high numbers are normal numbers.
So when he drops into lower numbers such as blue numbers or even low yellow numbers, (even though we know these blue and yellow numbers are not low numbers at all) his body says....." help, we are dropping into really low numbers here.....I must save myself" and he dumps the regulatory hormones and stored glucose into his system in the same way as he does when he drops too fast.
So a bounce can happen when:
  • A cat drops too fast
  • A cat drops into low green numbers
  • A cat drops into lower numbers than he is used to being in ( such as blue or even yellow numbers)
 
I thought you said the drop was not too quick. Anyhow, does that mean that 1.5U may be too much?
When you say it is safe to shoot him at 9.8, does it mean is it safe to shoot him any dose?
Thank you.
 
Marj said:
I thought you said the drop was not too quick. Anyhow, does that mean that 1.5U may be too much? Thank you.
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I did say that the drop was not too quick, but he did drop into numbers he is no longer used to and that would cause a bounce as well. See the three things that can cause a bounce in my previous post. No it does not mean the dose is too much as he did not drop too low and you did not struggle to stop him from dropping too much.

Marj said:
When you say it is safe to shoot him at 9.8, does it mean is it safe to shoot him any dose? Thank you.
Click to expand...

It is safe to shoot 9.8 with the dose he has been having at the time the BG is taken (1.5 units) as long as you can monitor the cycle and you have plenty of strips and higher carb food.
 
Marj said:
OK. So does treating a diabetic cat means I have to stay up all night everyday?
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No. As you gather more data you will get to know how he responds to the insulin.
There will be some nights you need to stay up but hopefully no too many.
Getting a before bed test in every night is a good habit to get into.
If the before bed test is lower than the preshot then it will most likely be an active cycle and you wil need to set the alarm and test again.

Marj, do you have an automatic feeder? One that opens when you set it?
They are invaluable to have for when you are not there and for overnight feeding.

Marj, when you post in the morning, would you like to start a new thread as this one is getting very long? Thanks:)
 
Hello, I created a new post as you requested.
DJ is at 9.8 AMPS meaning lower than all values during the last cycle. What does this mean?
Should I feed him and shoot him?
Thanks.
M&J
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
No. As you gather more data you will get to know how he responds to the insulin.
There will be some nights you need to stay up but hopefully no too many.
Getting a before bed test in every night is a good habit to get into.
If the before bed test is lower than the preshot then it will most likely be an active cycle and you wil need to set the alarm and test again.

Marj, do you have an automatic feeder? One that opens when you set it?
They are invaluable to have for when you are not there and for overnight feeding.

Marj, when you post in the morning, would you like to start a new thread as this one is getting very long? Thanks:)
Click to expand...
Do automatic feeder for can food exist? I started another thread on Lantus forum so we can continue there. Djoko is a little rainbow today!
Djoko +2 was higher than PS but it ended beingan active cycle.
 
When you have a chance, can you please start a new thread? There are 162 posts in this thread which is a lot for anyone who wants to help to have to read through.

You are also welcome to post on the Lantus board.
 
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