SS

[DebG]

Wondering if I could get some guidance on Fritz SS. Thankfully he keeps testing negative for keytones. I am worried if he stays above the 25o range he won't keep testing negative.
I don't want to raise too fast and miss his dose. With no experience in FD I'm not sure what to do next or if I need to do anything but keep giving him the 3 units and hope his numbers come down. To me they look high .
I have read and read the Prozinc protocol and I do shoot the 2.5 units if 250 plus and 3 units for 350 plus. Is it just me seeing high numbers or is he making progress? Can someone tell me is Nadiar numbers? I think that is the lowest he got to before his next injection rigt?

 

[Sue and Oliver (GA)]

Hmm. He is definitely too high. There are some nice yellow preshots in the past few cycles but some higher ones. Are we missing anything? Infection/ bad teeth/contraband high carb? I also wonder if we are switching up the doses too much. I wonder if sticking with 2.5 for a few cycles would calm him down - it was a big jump from 2 to 3.

 

[Robin&BB]

Hi, Deb - Was just wondering: What condition was Fritz being treated for with the prednisone?

 

[DebG]

Asthma

 

[Robin&BB]

Has he been on the pred off and on for long periods of time? (So has a history of asthma, is that correct?)

 

[DebG]

He's had asthma for about 3-4 years. I only give him the oral pred when he has flare ups that cause the mucous usually a couple times a year, he is on flovent inhaler 220 twice a day. Once in a while I have to use the inhaler rescue.
I'm wondering if he is insulin resistant or possibly acromegaly?????

 

[Robin&BB]

Will be back with you in about a half-hour, Deb. Am dealing with stall/retest situation at PMPS time for Bat-Bat at the moment. (Not terrible news, really - just kinda frustrating ...)

 

[DebG]

Thank you hope it goes well

 

[Robin&BB]

Hi, again, Deb - (Sorry for the delay, but was skimming through your earlier threads.) I can sense your frustration - so many of us know how it feels when it seems you can't get a kitty well-regulated.

Was noting you said Fritz is a big boy - so is he a Maine Coon? Or do you mean that he's significantly overweight for his body size?
Here's a link to an excellent body condition chart that can help you in assessing Fritz:
http://www.wsava.org/sites/default/files/Body condition score chart cats.pdf

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

Hi Deb - I don't think you need to panic - he's mostly in the 300s and was just diagnosed 2 months ago -right? Murphy was in the 400s and 500s for awhile (well, he still is occasionally)-- So while it is frustrating - it can take a while (several months) for cats to get used to the insulin and settle down- at least for Murphy, his insulin requirement is alway changing - high then low - sometimes we need the - I think it's called the patience pants around here the steroid is not helping

 

[DebG]

Hi Deb - I don't think you need to panic - he's mostly in the 300s and was just diagnosed 2 months ago -right? Murphy was in the 400s and 500s for awhile (well, he still is occasionally)-- So while it is frustrating - it can take a while (several months) for cats to get used to the insulin and settle down- at least for Murphy, his insulin requirement is alway changing - high then low - sometimes we need the - I think it's called the patience pants around here the steroid is not helping

Carol your a God send!!!! Last night was a tough one for me, Fritz handles all this so well.... My mind started going what if he has this and this and this. I am thankful I have an understanding level headed husband who also keeps my going in the right direction. Thankfully Fritz is off the liquid steroid and only the inhaler, which if I understand correctly goes directly into the lungs and not the blood stream which is better. If only he could be off the Flovent, which at this current time won't happen. Many times in the past Iv'e tried to back off or use once a day only to have him back on the liquid.

 

[DebG]

Hi, again, Deb - (Sorry for the delay, but was skimming through your earlier threads.) I can sense your frustration - so many of us know how it feels when it seems you can't get a kitty well-regulated.

Was noting you said Fritz is a big boy - so is he a Maine Coon? Or do you mean that he's significantly overweight for his body size?
Here's a link to an excellent body condition chart that can help you in assessing Fritz:
http://www.wsava.org/sites/default/files/Body condition score chart cats.pdf

Fritz is a Russian Blue. He weighted 28lbs and now he's at 26 I'd like to see him around 18lbs and no more.. Thank you for the chart. I thought that when kitty's had FD they lost weight, odd thing is Fritz hasn't.

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

odd thing is Fritz hasn't

well, it is a little paradoxical, but his not losing weight could be a relatively good sign that he is not so terribly unregulated and the insulin is doing something to get the energy into his cells Depending on his mid cycle numbers today, what kind of dose are you thinking tonight?

 

[Robin&BB]

Just found this about the Russian Blue breed:
On average, Russian Blue kitties weigh in somewhere between 7 and 12 pounds. However, not all Russian Blues are built exactly the same, with some weighing under 7 pounds and others even tipping the scales at more than 12 pounds. As with most other creatures living on the planet, diet and physical exercise both have a lot to with a cat's weight.

So unless he has an unusually large skeleton for a Russian Blue, I'd guess that you'll likely need to get Fritz on a good weight reduction plan. Please do this gradually, as sudden weight loss can be dangerous - especially to a kitty already on insulin. And you'll want to keep close tabs on his blood glucose levels during the process, because BG #s often drop as excess pounds are shed.

If you have a regular bathroom scale, you can weigh yourself, then take another weight holding Fritz in your arms, then calculate the difference to get his weight. (I have a digital step-on scale - cost me about $30 on Amazon - designed to weigh like that for a mother & infant. It reads out down to tenths of a pound; works great!) Bat-Bat actually weighed 18 lbs+ at one point before diagnosis. (No vet had ever educated me about overweight kitties and diabetes - ugh, she'd been fed mostly dry kibble all her life!) But although she's a large & very long cat (think mini-panther), her optimum weight is just around 10 lbs. or so; so she's slender - not skeletal-bony, though. She eats just 2-1/3 cans FF low-carb pate per day to maintain that optimum weight.

To put it in perspective: An additional pound on a 10-lb. kitty is like an extra 10 pounds on a 100-lb. human! So it's a good idea to weigh frequently at home if at all possible, especially while you're still trying to get that his weight where it should be.

All I can tell you is that over time, I learned that the food-to-insulin ratio is an important part of getting the diabetes under control: A kitty's daily rations can either work with the insulin - or against it. It really helped me a lot to think of Bat-Bat's daily food intake as "medicine," too.

 

[DebG]

well, it is a little paradoxical, but his not losing weight could be a relatively good sign that he is not so terribly unregulated and the insulin is doing something to get the energy into his cells Depending on his mid cycle numbers today, what kind of dose are you thinking tonight?

Either stick with 2.5 for a few days to see if his numbers tick down what do you think

 

[DebG]

Just found this about the Russian Blue breed:
On average, Russian Blue kitties weigh in somewhere between 7 and 12 pounds. However, not all Russian Blues are built exactly the same, with some weighing under 7 pounds and others even tipping the scales at more than 12 pounds. As with most other creatures living on the planet, diet and physical exercise both have a lot to with a cat's weight.

So unless he has an unusually large skeleton for a Russian Blue, I'd guess that you'll likely need to get Fritz on a good weight reduction plan. Please do this gradually, as sudden weight loss can be dangerous - especially to a kitty already on insulin. And you'll want to keep close tabs on his blood glucose levels during the process, because BG #s often drop as excess pounds are shed.

If you have a regular bathroom scale, you can weigh yourself, then take another weight holding Fritz in your arms, then calculate the difference to get his weight. (I have a digital step-on scale - cost me about $30 on Amazon - designed to weigh like that for a mother & infant. It reads out down to tenths of a pound; works great!) Bat-Bat actually weighed 18 lbs+ at one point before diagnosis. (No vet had ever educated me about overweight kitties and diabetes - ugh, she'd been fed mostly dry kibble all her life!) But although she's a large & very long cat (think mini-panther), her optimum weight is just around 10 lbs. or so; so she's slender - not skeletal-bony, though. She eats just 2-1/3 cans FF low-carb pate per day to maintain that optimum weight.

To put it in perspective: An additional pound on a 10-lb. kitty is like an extra 10 pounds on a 100-lb. human! So it's a good idea to weigh frequently at home if at all possible, especially while you're still trying to get that his weight where it should be.

All I can tell you is that over time, I learned that the food-to-insulin ratio is an important part of getting the diabetes under control: A kitty's daily rations can either work with the insulin - or against it. It really helped me a lot to think of Bat-Bat's daily food intake as "medicine," too.

Awesome info. Thank you so much for sharing this. So when you say food, how mych should he be eating? I try and feed him 1 to 1.5 ozs 5 or 6 times in a 24 hour period as when I get up to check his gb at 1 to 2 am I also give him 1 oz of food. He gets 1 to 1.5 Oz of the fancy feast classic chicken for the small amount of carbs. I make his food from air chilled organic homorne and antibotics free chicken from whole foods.

 

[Sue and Oliver (GA)]

I vote for 3 - as long as you can monitor

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

We didn't see any mid cycle or pmps #s today, but if he is the same as yesterday and if he were my cat, I'd probably vote for 3 as well (with monitoring)

 

[DebG]

K I'll do 3 units and cross our fingers!
I called a local vet (VCA) one I trust and they asked me to call the vet in Arizona who prescribed prozinc to at least ask them about the black stools. I might have to have him scoped and if it's the insulin causing it Im nor sure he needs to be scoped especially right now. So depending on what they say I'll take it from there. I'm hoping that his next stool is normal. He did have one that was normal till the end then some was loose and black.
No one else on Prozinc has experienced the black stool?

 

[Rachel]

I never noticed it with Gypsy. Let us know what the vet says about the stools.

I think 3 units is a good choice. We'll be looking to see what kind of numbers you get!

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

I've been on this forum since August and I've never seen black stools mentioned - I just did a search of the forum for black stools and didn't really come up with anything - another idea is to call the company that makes prozinc - with vial and box comes a product insert - they should give some contact information with a 800 number I'd definitely get this checked out soon
you can monitor blood sugar tonight with the 3 units?

 

[DebG]

I'll give them a call. I did read on the insert that comes with Prozinc it stated diarrhea ,black stool, and many others.
Good idea to call hopefully they will talk to me. I'm hoping for favorable lower numbers understanding it might take time for the numbers to come down.
I'm thankful I have guidance from all of you.
I'm hoping all the kitty's make positive progress.

 

[DebG]

I never noticed it with Gypsy. Let us know what the vet says about the stools.

I think 3 units is a good choice. We'll be looking to see what kind of numbers you get!

Thank you! I hope you and kitty have a nice night!!!

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

I've been thinking what the mechanism would be whereby insulin could cause black stools and I can't think of one. It might be one of those situations with listing of drug's side effects - if during clinical trials, someone gets a cold or urinary track infection or anything whether or not it is related to the drug, it has to be listed as a side effect. This might be the case here - we are worried about an ulcer or other mechanism where blood is in his upper GI track - if it happens again I'd get him to a vet as soon as possible to check to see if there is blood in his stool

 

[Robin&BB]

Bat-Bat was on ProZinc for over a year and no, she never experienced any black stools.
Black, tarry stools can be a symptom of any number of things; I'd suggest you have this checked out by a good vet.

I make his food from air chilled organic homorne and antibotics free chicken from whole foods.

Before I forget: Are you adding taurine to his homemade diet? As for amount to feed, I can tell you that Bat-Bat maintains her weight @ 10-10.5 lbs. by being fed between 7 oz to 7.5 oz. of canned food every 24 hours. But - once again - please cut back on rations gradually - perhaps by as little as 1/4 oz. increments weekly. And you'll need to watch for drops in BG, as the weight comes off. Slow and steady wins the race!

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

Bat-Bat was on ProZinc for over a year and no, she never experienced any black stools.
Black, tarry stools can be a symptom of any number of things; I'd suggest you have this checked out by a good vet. Before I forget: Are you adding taurine to his homemade diet? As for amount to feed, I can tell you that Bat-Bat maintains her weight @ 10-10.5 lbs. by being fed between 7 oz to 7.5 oz. of canned food every 24 hours. But - once again - please cut back on rations gradually - perhaps by as little as 1/4 oz. increments weekly. And you'll need o watch for drops in BG, as the weight comes off. Slow and steady wins the race!

Robin - it is just so good that you are back here - lots of

 

[Robin&BB]

Awww ... thanks, Carol.

 

[DebG]

Bat-Bat was on ProZinc for over a year and no, she never experienced any black stools.
Black, tarry stools can be a symptom of any number of things; I'd suggest you have this checked out by a good vet. Before I forget: Are you adding taurine to his homemade diet? As for amount to feed, I can tell you that Bat-Bat maintains her weight @ 10-10.5 lbs. by being fed between 7 oz to 7.5 oz. of canned food every 24 hours. But - once again - please cut back on rations gradually - perhaps by as little as 1/4 oz. increments weekly. And you'll need to watch for drops in BG, as the weight comes off. Slow and steady wins the race!

I'm calling the vet first thing tommorrow
Yes I follow Lisa Pierson recipe.

 

[DebG]

I've been thinking what the mechanism would be whereby insulin could cause black stools and I can't think of one. It might be one of those situations with listing of drug's side effects - if during clinical trials, someone gets a cold or urinary track infection or anything whether or not it is related to the drug, it has to be listed as a side effect. This might be the case here - we are worried about an ulcer or other mechanism where blood is in his upper GI track - if it happens again I'd get him to a vet as soon as possible to check to see if there is blood in his stool

I'm calling vet first thing tomorrow! Better to be safe than sorry. I'm nervous if they have to scope him aren't there dangers to putting him to sleep to scope?Especially being asthmatic and now fd.
Praying I get an experienced vet! We travel so much I'm hardly in a city long enough to establish a relationship with one

 

[DebG]

I never noticed it with Gypsy. Let us know what the vet says about the stools.

I think 3 units is a good choice. We'll be looking to see what kind of numbers you get!

I sure will calling first thing tommorrow. This poor kitty can't get a break

 

[Robin&BB]

I'm calling the vet first thing tommorrow
Yes I follow Lisa Pierson recipe.

Excellent --- on both counts! Will look forward to hearing what you find out from the vet.