Squeaky not eating

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Jan D & Squeaky, Sep 15, 2020.

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  1. Jan D & Squeaky

    Jan D & Squeaky Well-Known Member

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    Sep 3, 2020
    Squeaky is not eating. I am worried. What to do? He only had a few bites around 10:30 before his shot. And fewer bites at 4:00 am. Almost time for his 6+ shot at 4:30. It's 4:10 now. He's drinking though.

    Now he went and hid in the closet. That is not good at all.

    Got his number it was 337. He's no doubt feeling really lousy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
    Reason for edit: Despair
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  2. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    This is difficult, we all understand that.

    Refusing to eat is a worry but sometimes it’s just for a short period of time - cats do things when they want to, not when we want them to! It may be that he is picking up on your anxiety and doesn’t know how to handle it. Can you work on some kind of relaxation techniques to calm you and make you feel better? That could be a useful step.

    You do need to get him to eat though. What are you feeding? Your sig says raw/cooked beef. Do you supplement that with any commercial foods? Has he had any favourite foods in the past that you could offer to tempt his tastebuds? There are also various tricks to get an inappetant cat to eat - try a little tuna water on top of his food, or a sprinkling of Parmesan, something strong-smelling to perk up his appetite. Failing that you can get an appetite stimulant from the vet.

    Not eating may of course be a sign that he’s not feeling well - is he showing any other unusual symptoms?

    Looking after a chronically poorly kitty is a labour of love. There are bound to be ups and downs. We all want our babies to be magically cured overnight but as that’s not going to happen we have to train ourselves to have the mindset of managing the downs in the best way we can. Can you inject some lighter moments into your day so you can switch off for short periods at least? Chat to a friend, watch something funny on tv, read a book?

    You say there’s nobody here to help but remember that this is a global site with members all over the world and not all of them are in the same time zone as you. Someone always comes along sooner or later.
     
  3. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    (((((Jan)))))
     
  4. Jan D & Squeaky

    Jan D & Squeaky Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your reply. Yes he looks like he's feeling lousy and he didn't look great all day yesterday. When his numbers are in the 300s, he looks like that. The insulin doesn't seem to be bringing the numbers down.

    I have two things in my tool box. One is a food that he likes, it is chicken .... which he is allergic to and will probably cause him to have diarrhea. The other is called Mirtazipine and it is an anti-nausea and appetite stimulant.

    We are now 30 minutes away from our 2-hour window of fasting before his next insulin shot. I need someone to coach me what to do here, I don't yet understand the mechanics of all of this.

    Thank you. Yes love but now exhaustion creeping in.
     
  5. THH & Snowcrash (GA)

    THH & Snowcrash (GA) Member

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    Is he nauseous? Any vomiting? How are his bowels?

    Diabetic cats often have pancreatitis, which is painful and makes them not want to eat. My vet often treats diabetic cats who have pancreatitis with cerenia, buprenorphine, and fluid therapy.
     
  6. Jan D & Squeaky

    Jan D & Squeaky Well-Known Member

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    Yes he has pancreatitis. I need to talk to you about the buprenorphine, later.
     
  7. Jan D & Squeaky

    Jan D & Squeaky Well-Known Member

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    Okay he ate four pieces of pan seared sirloin cooked to perfection. Am trying more.
     
  8. THH & Snowcrash (GA)

    THH & Snowcrash (GA) Member

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    How is his pancreatitis being treated?
     
  9. Jan D & Squeaky

    Jan D & Squeaky Well-Known Member

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    Currently we are in the midst of a mess with the vet, trying to figure out what to do. He's taking steroids, we want to get him off of them.

    I need to talk to you about this, but gotta get through this crisis first.
     
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  10. Jan D & Squeaky

    Jan D & Squeaky Well-Known Member

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    Sep 3, 2020
    THH, is there any chance we could talk on the phone about the pancreatitis and the meds? But not right away, maybe later today or tomorrow. Thanks.
     
  11. Pabs&Ro

    Pabs&Ro Member

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    Aug 16, 2020
    Pabay has had pancreatitis and eating has been a major problem. The biggest difference in the short term was a vitamin B injection (he now has those regularly). I don't know what it does but it improves his appetite immediately (and his coat goes lovely and smooth). In the longer term I found fortiflora probiotics by purina (available in the UK not sure about USA) sprinkled on his food made him interested in food. Good luck. Not eating is such a worry but you will find a way through I am sure.
     
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  12. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    So Mirtazipine is an apetite stimulant but it is not an anti nausea you need Cerenia or ondansetron as an anti-nausea because the apetite stimulant does no good if the cat is nauseated
     
  13. THH & Snowcrash (GA)

    THH & Snowcrash (GA) Member

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    Without getting the pancreatitis under control, you will have a hard time getting his blood glucose values down. Pancreatitis causes severe pain, and that kind of stress will spike blood glucose values.

    Pancreatitis control relies on symptomatic (anti-nausea medications like cerenia, pain relief medications like buprenorphine--though cerenia also helps some with pancreatic pain--, fluid therapy to replace fluids lost from vomiting or diarrhea, and appetite stimulant to encourage them to eat) and steroids if necessary.

    Cerenia has some anti-inflammatory properties that are just starting to be discovered, so it can be a really powerful medication for cats with pancreatitis who shouldn't be taking steroids. THAT SAID, cerenia on its own isn't always enough to get the pancreatitis under control. So if you have to keep him on prednisolone so the pancreatitis will be controlled, that's what needs to happen--what good is getting him off the steroid for his diabetes if he won't eat regularly?
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
  14. Jan D & Squeaky

    Jan D & Squeaky Well-Known Member

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    Okay. Here we go. I've calmed down a bit so I can write now. This is complicated.

    Until about a month ago or so, my first vet had him on 12 mgs of prednisilone, 8 mgs of cerenia, .2 ml of buprenorphine, 1 shot of B12. Chicken, no carbs at all, for diet. She told me the buprenorphine was not actually for pain, but it enhanced capillary blood flow in the pancreas. And his diarrhea kept getting worse. Pandemic hit..... Then came a $900 vet bill but no solutions and not much in the way of communication or instruction. Leaving me hanging. With a terrible case of diarrhea. She recommended chlorambucil. But she didn't give me any instructions on how to transition from prednisilone to chlorambucil anyway. I was reluctant to give it without instructions or coaching.

    So I went back to a previous vet who does house call visits. Angie. She came over to the house. She wanted him off the pred (told me it causes diabetes), and off the buprenorphine (nothing in the literature indicates it increases capillary blood flow in the pancreas). So I started decreasing both. She coached me on giving chlorambucil 2 days a week.

    Right around the time I switched vets, I took him off the chicken (he was showing signs of allergy to it, losing hair on back legs) and started him on pork. He began doing better. A friend did animal communication and he asked for beef hearts, so I got that and he gobbled it. That seemed to have a good effect, too. He told her he hated the buprenorphine, said it hurt his mouth every time (oral squirt). He always hated getting that one.

    Started the chlorambucil 2 days a week. Doing okay, but still diarrhea. House call vet said increase to 3 times a week. Then the stools turned black and were horrible runny diarrhea. She said to stop chlorambucil.

    On one particularly bad morning for Squeaky, I didn't have the heart to give him the buprenorphine (which I had been slowly reducing), so I just stopped. I also stopped giving him the cerenia and I had been decreasing the pred, and stopped that too. (Kept giving the weekly B12 shots and still am.) For a few days. Wow he seemed better. Then he started diarrhea again, so I started giving him 2.5 mg of pred each day. That helped.

    All along, he would have up days and down days. Diarrhea, then a bit better then back again. Nobody could get the diarrhea stopped, this has been going on for about 3 years. All along, this last several months, he kept drinking more and more water. So finally Angie said, take him to an affiliated clinic for diabetes test. It was positive. That was about 10 days ago. And here we are.

    Angie wanted me to reduce the prednisilone to 2.5 mg every other day. The first off day, he had vomiting and diarrhea. The second off day, vomiting. So I increased him back to 1.25 on the "off" day. He was dragging. Finally this morning he had 2 poops, out of box, mostly solidish but soft. Better than diarrhea. He's still dragging today. I increased his steroid again to 2.5 every other day. I've asked Angie about switching from Prednisilone to Budesonide as one person on this board has suggested. Have not had an answer from her. I have to ask the tech, she asked Angie, responded without a reply, I asked again. Takes a long time to get answers.

    So I have some mirtzapine (which says expired 30 days after January 13), some buprenorphine (which he hates), an IV (I need to look at expiration date).

    He switched to beef, that's about all he will eat now. Eating sporadically. Won't eat treats any more.

    So after those two soft/solid poops this morning, he looked like he felt better. Today he's been eating a little here and there (when I hand feed him, he doesn't go to the dish).

    He was, for the longest time, eating the pills ground up in his food. But now his eating habits are so irregular, mostly he is eating pieces of meat. So I have to pill him, which he hates. Mostly today he's been hiding and he's definitely avoiding me. Now he even dislikes our routine of playing, then massage, then inhaler.... because he knows the ear prick follows (regardless of how much love and petting he gets). He tolerates but is not fond of the insulin and will often run away from that too. We are not having a very good time. He is angry at me.

    I'm not sure if he is nauseous (he will eat if he thinks the food smells good) or in pain. I do know that the high blood glucose levels are making him feel crummy. (Because the one time they went down to 97, he was so happy and looked so good and had some energy).

    Mostly we have his asthma under control, but this morning he coughed a little bit at the blood glucose testing time.

    There you have the story.

    I'm doing the best I can. A bit confused about what to do next. Comments, suggestions, questions?

    Thanks, Jan and Squeaky
     
  15. Jan D & Squeaky

    Jan D & Squeaky Well-Known Member

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    Everything you say makes total sense. Please read the long story and see what you think.
     
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  16. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Awwww (((((Jan & Squeaky))))) You both have been through so much. I cant offer advice but I can offer support and prayers.
    This just breaks my heart. Sending many prayers...sigh
     
  17. THH & Snowcrash (GA)

    THH & Snowcrash (GA) Member

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    12 mgs of prednisolone is way too high! Wow! So I'm glad you're reducing it... but it's dangerous to stop any steroid abruptly without tapering. The low-dose he's on now may not be enough for the pancreatitis.

    Budesonide generally won't help with pancreatitis. It's an intestinal-specific steroid.

    Cerenia plus increasing his prednisolone back to probably 5mg 1-2 times daily depending on what your current vet says may be a good idea. You need to get him past the current crisis before you can think about making changes to his treatments.
     
  18. Jan D & Squeaky

    Jan D & Squeaky Well-Known Member

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    Sep 3, 2020
    Thank you. Any suggestions for getting past the current crisis? He's looking terribly punk today, although he did eat a couple of times from my hand. I'm pretty tired, too.
     
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  19. Tracey&Jones (GA)

    Tracey&Jones (GA) Well-Known Member

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    That is a mess! Hugs to you..and scritches to Squeaky.

    I am not sure where she got that...it is a pain relief. Just like humans when the body is relaxed and less stressed (painful) it is easier for the body to heal. https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/buprenorphine. If you find he fights this too bad maybe ask about gabapetin, it isn't as good as good as the buprenorphine but may still help. https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/gabapentin All a balancing act - what to give without stressing the cat.

    This is a chemotherapy drug. It can be used for IBD but more specifically for SCL (small cell lymphoma). https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/chlorambucil This is another drug that shouldn't just be started or stopped or the dosage tampered without a vets advice. Some cats do well with it and some do not.

    Prednisolone - https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/prednisoloneprednisone. I like the even doses given each day - morning and night. For Jones it made his numbers more level.

    Has your vet mentioned metronidazole at all? This may help with the diarrhea. https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/metronidazole

    A good probiotic would not hurt anything either. I used a human one for Jones.

    B12 helps with digestion and gut health. It is one thing you can't overdose on - their body will just eliminate what it doesn't need.

    You can also check if there is liquid or injectable form available if you want to check out easier options to pilling. Also, gel caps - you can get more meds in with 1 pill and you just need to squirt a little water in after to get it down.

    Here is a very important concept that will drive you absolutely bat poop crazy. IBD will wax and wane. Chronic pancreatitis will wax and wane. Meaning things will get better, then all of a sudden it will flare and get worse. The important thing it to be consistent as possible with vet care (don't bounce find one you like and keep with them - voice of experience here), medication - when you have a dose that works don't muck too much unless the disease advances and you have to increase with consultation with your vet, food - find something that first the cat will eat and second is not allergic to. For this type of scenario it isn't one drug or the other - it is finding a recipe that all works all together. Now you add in the diabetes, like I indicated on your other post...you dose the insulin around what Squeaky needs for the IBD.


    For today, I would do the cerenia. Two hours later try the mirtz. Make sure he isn't nauseated then forcing him to eat.

    Another thing...get some rest and take a hot bath or something. You need to de-stress!! Sometimes they feed off of us..so do what you can and then take a break. I know it is hard but this is very important.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
  20. THH & Snowcrash (GA)

    THH & Snowcrash (GA) Member

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    ^^I second Tracy's suggestions.
     
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