Spreadsheet opinions needed, please

[Emily'smom]

Hi All! Our new vet is coming out for her second visit on Thursday. I have been home testing and keeping Emily's numbers on a spreadsheet for quite a while now. To my uneducated eye, there is no pattern emerging. I can no more access Emily's insulin needs now, then I could a month ago. What I do know is that our little 6.9 lb girl is probably now down to 6 lbs or less, and is eating ravenously. What I also know is that about 2.5 weeks after her diagnosis back in June, her all day glucose curve at another vet, using a Pet Meter and giving her .5 unit Lantus 2x per day looked like this: 9:00 am 253, 11:00 104, 1:00 p.m. 60, 3:15 85, 5:00 p.m. 124. Having gained some knowledge since that test (when we were told her mid-cycle number went too low and we were advised to take her off the insulin) this looks to me like a pretty darn good curve. During that 2.5 week time that we were giving Emily the .5 units per day, almost immediately she returned to her normal energy level. Her fur looked amazing. Her eating/peeing/drinking returned to normal. Since then, and because of the advise of that vet, she has been off insulin/on insulin/and ultimately her units lowered to .25 2x per day, and she is slowly declining ... in weight, her appetite is not normal, her fur looks and feels horrible, and although she is not flooding the box, she is peeing more than she should be. I am not certain this new vet has any more feline diabetes knowledge than our old vet, but I do like her personality better and the fact that she comes to the house, eliminates a lot of the stress for Emily. Does anyone have any thoughts on Emily's spreadsheet numbers? Have I given this enough time, and is it time to go back to the .5 units 2x per day? Emily's food has changed since then ... at that time she was getting Purina DM dry along with low-carb wet. Now she is completely on low-carb wet...no dry at all since mid-August. I would like to have some of my own ideas on how to proceed with Emily when the vet comes on Thursday, so I can run them by her and get her opinion. As a side note, we may be dealing with some dental issues which will absolutely be addressed on Thursday, so I do not plan on making any changes prior to that being investigated. Thanks for your thoughts and help! Feeling incredibly frustrated as we watch Emily struggle and waste away. I am not sure how much more weight this little girl can lose, and successfully come back from.

 

[JeffJ]

Sorry I missed this. The BG values to seem to be somewhat random. Are you sure there is no food for 2 hours prior to AMPS and PMPS tests? She doesn't look regulated, despite the insulin.

With that low weight, I would be feeding her a few carbs. I'm not sure she can lose much more weight either. I would be concerned about her losing any more weight at all. Poor Emily.

 

[JanetNJ]

Hi All! Our new vet is coming out for her second visit on Thursday. I have been home testing and keeping Emily's numbers on a spreadsheet for quite a while now. To my uneducated eye, there is no pattern emerging. I can no more access Emily's insulin needs now, then I could a month ago. What I do know is that our little 6.9 lb girl is probably now down to 6 lbs or less, and is eating ravenously. What I also know is that about 2.5 weeks after her diagnosis back in June, her all day glucose curve at another vet, using a Pet Meter and giving her .5 unit Lantus 2x per day looked like this: 9:00 am 253, 11:00 104, 1:00 p.m. 60, 3:15 85, 5:00 p.m. 124. Having gained some knowledge since that test (when we were told her mid-cycle number went too low and we were advised to take her off the insulin) this looks to me like a pretty darn good curve. During that 2.5 week time that we were giving Emily the .5 units per day, almost immediately she returned to her normal energy level. Her fur looked amazing. Her eating/peeing/drinking returned to normal. Since then, and because of the advise of that vet, she has been off insulin/on insulin/and ultimately her units lowered to .25 2x per day, and she is slowly declining ... in weight, her appetite is not normal, her fur looks and feels horrible, and although she is not flooding the box, she is peeing more than she should be. I am not certain this new vet has any more feline diabetes knowledge than our old vet, but I do like her personality better and the fact that she comes to the house, eliminates a lot of the stress for Emily. Does anyone have any thoughts on Emily's spreadsheet numbers? Have I given this enough time, and is it time to go back to the .5 units 2x per day? Emily's food has changed since then ... at that time she was getting Purina DM dry along with low-carb wet. Now she is completely on low-carb wet...no dry at all since mid-August. I would like to have some of my own ideas on how to proceed with Emily when the vet comes on Thursday, so I can run them by her and get her opinion. As a side note, we may be dealing with some dental issues which will absolutely be addressed on Thursday, so I do not plan on making any changes prior to that being investigated. Thanks for your thoughts and help! Feeling incredibly frustrated as we watch Emily struggle and waste away. I am not sure how much more weight this little girl can lose, and successfully come back from.

Can you add info to your signature on what and how much /when you are feeding?

 

[Emily'smom]

Sorry I missed this. The BG values to seem to be somewhat random. Are you sure there is no food for 2 hours prior to AMPS and PMPS tests? She doesn't look regulated, despite the insulin.

With that low weight, I would be feeding her a few carbs. I'm not sure she can lose much more weight either. I would be concerned about her losing any more weight at all. Poor Emily.

Hi Jeff, Thank you for your reply. I am absolutely positive there is no feed being eaten minimally 2 hours before each pre-test...at least in the last few weeks or so, because her appetite is such that there is nothing left in the bowl immediately after feeding. The new vet came out yesterday. Her weight is indeed down to 6 lbs. She has at least one, possibly two teeth that need to come out. That surgery is scheduled a week from today. As I was not home for the appointment, (my husband was here), he showed the vet the chart. She was impressed! So, thank you to all who helped me with that! To her, it appears that this particular insulin is not working for Emily (Lantus). Being diabetic herself, it took her a few different insulins to find the one that was right for her. She feels that because Emily has not regulated over a fairly long period of time, the Lantus is just not right for her. I am inclined to agree, but what do I know? My husband told her (and I agree) that we will stay the course with the Lantus until after her teeth are out, and then assess to see what we think.

 

[Emily'smom]

Can you add info to your signature on what and how much /when you are feeding?

Yes, Janet, I will add that. Currently, I am feeding Emily strictly Fancy Feast, whatever she will eat (which is just about anything at this point) ... all low-carb varieties (nothing over 6% carbs) according to the chart. I am a little concerned about these choices, only because I found an online calculator that figures "dry matter" in wet food (whatever that means) and according to that calculator, and using the figures on the back of the can, some of the FF varieties are much higher than want Dr. Pierson's list shows. (For example, one variety on the list is 6%, yet using the carb calculator, it is 21%). You can drive yourself mad trying/worrying about figuring this stuff out. For a 7 lb cat, according to the FF cans, you should be feeding roughly 2 cans per day. Emily is eating that and more, because she is so hungry. Our schedule is to feed in the morning (around 7:00 a.m.), after the pre-test. Once she eats a bit, I give her her shot. Before I leave for work, I give her some more food, because when we work, she is pretty much on her own all day. I am thinking about getting an aut0-feeder so she can have a small meal in the afternoon. When we get home from work we do her pre-test, then feed her and then inject. Before we go to bed, we feed her again, to hold her over through the night. She devours that food before we even climb the stairs, and for the most part does not "bug" us during the night. I would say at this point, Emily is eating at least 2 1/2 - maybe 3 cans per day, disbursed throughout the morning before I leave for work (or a few small meals during the day if I am home), and then at night as indicated above. Thoughts? Thank you.

 

[JeffJ]

I would definitely feed her more. She absolutely cannot lose anymore weight, and she should regain weight up to 7 or 7.5 pounds. She is shedding some of the calories because of being unregulated.

It is true that some insulins don't work for a particular cat. Lantus may not be right for Emily. With weight that low, and fluctuating BG, I would be careful with insulin doses. It will be a balancing act for sure with sweet Emily.

 

[Emily'smom]

I would definitely feed her more. She absolutely cannot lose anymore weight, and she should regain weight up to 7 or 7.5 pounds. She is shedding some of the calories because of being unregulated.

It is true that some insulins don't work for a particular cat. Lantus may not be right for Emily. With weight that low, and fluctuating BG, I would be careful with insulin doses. It will be a balancing act for sure with sweet Emily.

Thanks, Jeff. It has been an incredibly frustrating ride with this feline diabetes! Honestly, I just thought we would give her two shots a day, and life would return to normal. I am hopeful that the removal of the bad tooth on Friday will reduce a lot of her stress/discomfort and that alone may help to regulate her. She also had a UTI back in August, and was given an antibiotic shot for that. I just had her urine retested to make sure the infection was gone, and am awaiting those results. I know that can effect glucose as well. I will keep you posted! I appreciate your kind words!

 

[Yong & Maury GA]

Just so you don't drive yourself crazy comparing values, Dr. Lisa contacts each of those companies to get As Fed values, versus the broad Guaranteed Analysis values that are listed on the cans. While you're waiting for a feeder, you can freeze portions of wet food and make catfoodsicles to leave out. I do this for my boy when I go to work and his 1 meal feeder opens for another snack later . Before this, he would wake me up to 2 hours before I am supposed to get up lol. He is half maine coon and before getting his BG controlled (I don't call him regulated ) he was down to 10lbs. He's been holding his good weight of 13lbs now for a few months. He looked so sad at 10lbs. 3lbs doesn't sound like much but he is a bigger boy and had lost muscle too from neuropathy.

I would give medium carb foods to make sure he ate enough and so he needed a little more insulin during those times. We were using another insulin first so I was able to dose around it easier than with Lantus. As Jeff said, it is a balancing act. I do hope her tooth removal helps

 

[Emily'smom]

Just so you don't drive yourself crazy comparing values, Dr. Lisa contacts each of those companies to get As Fed values, versus the broad Guaranteed Analysis values that are listed on the cans. While you're waiting for a feeder, you can freeze portions of wet food and make catfoodsicles to leave out. I do this for my boy when I go to work and his 1 meal feeder opens for another snack later . Before this, he would wake me up to 2 hours before I am supposed to get up lol. He is half maine coon and before getting his BG controlled (I don't call him regulated ) he was down to 10lbs. He's been holding his good weight of 13lbs now for a few months. He looked so sad at 10lbs. 3lbs doesn't sound like much but he is a bigger boy and had lost muscle too from neuropathy.

I would give medium carb foods to make sure he ate enough and so he needed a little more insulin during those times. We were using another insulin first so I was able to dose around it easier than with Lantus. As Jeff said, it is a balancing act. I do hope her tooth removal helps

Thanks for the reply. Can you tell me what feeder you are using? Some of the reviews are not that great, and we are spending SO much money on Emily, I don't want to waste any more. Also, wondering what insulin you are using now, and what you had used previously? The vet does not feel that Lantus is working for her, and I am inclined to agree, but what do I know???

 

[Gill & George]

Hi Mary,
I don't often visit health, but your condo title caught my eye.

I'm sorry that Emily is losing weight. I hope that she will eat more for you.

It is entirely possible that the dental issues are playing havoc with her numbers and appetite. Once she's had her teeth sorted out it can take a while for the inflammation to subside and the effects on her BG stabilise, and for you to see any possible effects on her BG from the procedure.

Looking at the spreadsheet, I can't see any patterns, and forgive me for being blunt, but that's due to the lack of data.

When you look at the SS, can you tell me when Emily usually onsets? When is her normal nadir? With midcycle tests being non existent I'm sure it's impossible for you to say, and yet this is the data that you need to allow you to make dosing decisions, or indeed before you can say with certainty that lantus isn't working.

You've been doing a great job of getting those ps tests, but since lantus is dosed based on how low a dose gets kitty (nadir) I think you need to concentrate on getting some midcycle data. FWIW that 60 on a pet meter on the curve the vet run, is too low of a nadir and did call for a reduction, the only 'mistake' at that point was to take Emily of insulin, in effect a 0.50u reduction, for most kitties that's too much of a reduction, and is likely why Emily ended back on insulin.


I would suggest that before you change anything you try to collect some data.
I would try (if your schedule allows) to get a couple of tests in the am cycle and a couple in the pm cycle. Think of it as a fact finding mission that will enable you to see patterns and better manage BG.

In the am cycle try getting a test between +1 and+4 (here you would be trying to find where she onsets) vary it from day to day.
Then another test between +5 and +9(here you are looking for nadir) again vary it.

On days you are home and have time try grabbing spot checks at other times.

In the pm cycle maybe grab a test between +1 and +3, and then a before bed test. If you are up well before her shot time, a test at +10 or +11 is useful too. Whatever will work best for your schedule.

If you are unable to do this due to life commitments, then grab tests when you can during the week, but try and run a curve at least once a week.

Remember data will be your guide and your alli in the fight against FD.

 

[Yong & Maury GA]

Thanks for the reply. Can you tell me what feeder you are using? Some of the reviews are not that great, and we are spending SO much money on Emily, I don't want to waste any more. Also, wondering what insulin you are using now, and what you had used previously? The vet does not feel that Lantus is working for her, and I am inclined to agree, but what do I know???

I use this one: http://a.co/dSYmocR and I know at least one other member and one friend that uses it too. Maury's info is in my signature .

I like what Gill and George suggested as a plan for you with Emily and I know it can be a struggle with a full time job. Also, in my opinion, 3 months isn't a fairly long time for her adjusting and not being regulated. We're going into month 10 and my boy still isn't considered regulated . He's a little bouncy so it's possible he will never be textbook regulated but I'm doing my best to keep his BG in control and making sure he feels good and is happy .

Good luck!

 

[Emily'smom]

Hi Mary,
I don't often visit health, but your condo title caught my eye.

I'm sorry that Emily is losing weight. I hope that she will eat more for you.

It is entirely possible that the dental issues are playing havoc with her numbers and appetite. Once she's had her teeth sorted out it can take a while for the inflammation to subside and the effects on her BG stabilise, and for you to see any possible effects on her BG from the procedure.

Looking at the spreadsheet, I can't see any patterns, and forgive me for being blunt, but that's due to the lack of data.

When you look at the SS, can you tell me when Emily usually onsets? When is her normal nadir? With midcycle tests being non existent I'm sure it's impossible for you to say, and yet this is the data that you need to allow you to make dosing decisions, or indeed before you can say with certainty that lantus isn't working.

You've been doing a great job of getting those ps tests, but since lantus is dosed based on how low a dose gets kitty (nadir) I think you need to concentrate on getting some midcycle data. FWIW that 60 on a pet meter on the curve the vet run, is too low of a nadir and did call for a reduction, the only 'mistake' at that point was to take Emily of insulin, in effect a 0.50u reduction, for most kitties that's too much of a reduction, and is likely why Emily ended back on insulin.


I would suggest that before you change anything you try to collect some data.
I would try (if your schedule allows) to get a couple of tests in the am cycle and a couple in the pm cycle. Think of it as a fact finding mission that will enable you to see patterns and better manage BG.

In the am cycle try getting a test between +1 and+4 (here you would be trying to find where she onsets) vary it from day to day.
Then another test between +5 and +9(here you are looking for nadir) again vary it.

On days you are home and have time try grabbing spot checks at other times.

In the pm cycle maybe grab a test between +1 and +3, and then a before bed test. If you are up well before her shot time, a test at +10 or +11 is useful too. Whatever will work best for your schedule.

If you are unable to do this due to life commitments, then grab tests when you can during the week, but try and run a curve at least once a week.

Remember data will be your guide and your alli in the fight against FD.

Hi there! I appreciate your thoughts on the lack of testing/information throughout the day and I completely understand how that will be useful. Unfortunately, for the most part, our schedule does not have us home with a lot of regularity. I work two part time jobs with varying days/hours, which together is full time work, including Saturdays. My husband also works full time, a slightly different schedule than me. In addition, we have a photography business, which as I'm sure you can imagine, has us running all weekend, late nights, etc. At this point, I am having to hire a pet sitter with injection experience on the evenings we are not home, as we are entering into a super busy photography season. Sometimes, as in the case this weekend, we were literally out of the house working for 12 hours, while shooting a wedding. I will see what I can squeeze in to try and round out the chart a bit more so that perhaps the mystery will be taken out of Emily's insulin needs!

 

[Emily'smom]

I use this one: http://a.co/dSYmocR and I know at least one other member and one friend that uses it too. Maury's info is in my signature .

I like what Gill and George suggested as a plan for you with Emily and I know it can be a struggle with a full time job. Also, in my opinion, 3 months isn't a fairly long time for her adjusting and not being regulated. We're going into month 10 and my boy still isn't considered regulated . He's a little bouncy so it's possible he will never be textbook regulated but I'm doing my best to keep his BG in control and making sure he feels good and is happy .

Good luck!

Thanks for the link to the feeder. I am going to look into it today. As far as not being regulated after three months, I understand that it may take longer than that, and am trying to be patient. I honestly would not have issues with it if she weren't such a tiny cat to begin with, and was losing weight. I really feel like I don't have time to waste here, because she is literally wasting away at only 6 lbs at this point. Vet is coming on Friday to deal with those teeth....hoping for something positive to happen after that issue is resolved. Thank you again!!

 

[Noah & me (GA)]

Someone here has a vet who can access/link their phone or pad to the clients spreadsheet. No printing, no e-mails.
I agree about not getting fixated right now on the particulars of food and regularity, especially since you sound self educated and have a vet that cares.
Our first cat needed to switch insulins and went to a free feed system after horrible weight loss, it saved his life.
Ask me later about Noah's terrible teeth and how I handle the possible pain. He's a happy cat.
You're doing well so far, stay calm and informed. Best of luck.

 

[Emily'smom]

Someone here has a vet who can access/link their phone or pad to the clients spreadsheet. No printing, no e-mails.
I agree about not getting fixated right now on the particulars of food and regularity, especially since you sound self educated and have a vet that cares.
Our first cat needed to switch insulins and went to a free feed system after horrible weight loss, it saved his life.
Ask me later about Noah's terrible teeth and how I handle the possible pain. He's a happy cat.
You're doing well so far, stay calm and informed. Best of luck.

Thank you for your kind reply. I cannot wait for the vet to come on Friday to take care of Emily's dental issues. I really and truly hope that will get her on the right path. Soon after her appointment on Friday, I am going to need to make a decision (with the vet's advise) about the Lantus. If this were a 20 lb cat, and she lost some weight, I would really not be overly concerned. But at 6 lbs., I cannot expect Emily to lose much more, and be able to come back to good health from that weight loss. She is so tiny to begin with, that even this 10 ounce weight loss is a big deal to her. All I feel is bones when I pet her, and her "big" fur is in horrible condition. UGH! I feel badly for her, but for the most part, her disposition is the same, she is jumping up on things, etc., so I hope she doesn't feel as bad as I think she might.

 

[JanetNJ]

Yes, Janet, I will add that. Currently, I am feeding Emily strictly Fancy Feast, whatever she will eat (which is just about anything at this point) ... all low-carb varieties (nothing over 6% carbs) according to the chart. I am a little concerned about these choices, only because I found an online calculator that figures "dry matter" in wet food (whatever that means) and according to that calculator, and using the figures on the back of the can, some of the FF varieties are much higher than want Dr. Pierson's list shows. (For example, one variety on the list is 6%, yet using the carb calculator, it is 21%). You can drive yourself mad trying/worrying about figuring this stuff out. For a 7 lb cat, according to the FF cans, you should be feeding roughly 2 cans per day. Emily is eating that and more, because she is so hungry. Our schedule is to feed in the morning (around 7:00 a.m.), after the pre-test. Once she eats a bit, I give her her shot. Before I leave for work, I give her some more food, because when we work, she is pretty much on her own all day. I am thinking about getting an aut0-feeder so she can have a small meal in the afternoon. When we get home from work we do her pre-test, then feed her and then inject. Before we go to bed, we feed her again, to hold her over through the night. She devours that food before we even climb the stairs, and for the most part does not "bug" us during the night. I would say at this point, Emily is eating at least 2 1/2 - maybe 3 cans per day, disbursed throughout the morning before I leave for work (or a few small meals during the day if I am home), and then at night as indicated above. Thoughts? Thank you.

Give her as much as she wants. I think an auto feeder is a great idea. Unregulated cats sometimes need more food then normal because they can not utilize the nutrients properly. Sounds like she could use a mid day feeding and night feeding, so an auto feeder could really help so she gains weight.

 

[Noah & me (GA)]

Think of her weightloss in percentages. She's still at 87% of her original. At that rate the 20 pound cat you mention would only be down to 17.4 pounds. I've force-fed two cats that bounced back from 25% . I can't go back and read every post now, no diarrhea in the box or liquid discharge? As long as she's eating and drinking you're short-term safe.

 

[Monica & Josie]

Thanks for the reply. Can you tell me what feeder you are using? Some of the reviews are not that great, and we are spending SO much money on Emily, I don't want to waste any more. Also, wondering what insulin you are using now, and what you had used previously? The vet does not feel that Lantus is working for her, and I am inclined to agree, but what do I know???

Hi,
I'm sorry to hear you are still struggling with Emily.
We feed Josie more less whenever she asks for food, little and often seem to be working better for her.
This automatic pet feeder was a lifesaver for us to keep my sanity over obsessing so much how to feed her the right times and get some sleep/go to work...
I can really recommend it as it's simple, reliable, easy to use and you can set up 5 feedings in one go! We have it set for midday, midnight, 4pm and an empty slot for two hours prior feeding to 'take the food away'.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mate-Automatic-Pet-Feeder-Digital/dp/B01AUYLVU8/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20

Keeping the spreadsheet up to date is key so yes, try to get as much data as possible.
Try not to get too obsessed with the details ( I had to stop doing that too before I went nuts! ) and just focus on the bigger picture one thing at the time taking each day as it comes.

Hope this info helps and also hope that you will be able to get Emily on the right path soon and she will feel well again to be a happy kitty!

 

[Noah & me (GA)]

Did you notice no one is persecuting you about your own lives and jobs interfering with the "Strict regimen you MUST follow..." Your life has to go on as well and not for selfish reasons. You can't take care of an animal until you take care of yourself first. If you're five minutes late on the 12-12 cycle we won't be banging down your door. You're doing everything right and the love is obvious. Stay calm, be aware and the light will shine on you both very soon. This is the devotion that keeps inspiring me.

 

[Emily'smom]

Give her as much as she wants. I think an auto feeder is a great idea. Unregulated cats sometimes need more food then normal because they can not utilize the nutrients properly. Sounds like she could use a mid day feeding and night feeding, so an auto feeder could really help so she gains weight.

Thank you, Janet. I am ordering one today...I agree, it will be best if she can have some small meals during the day and even at night, and investing in an auto feeder will be cheaper than paying someone to come, since my work schedule and distance away will not allow me to do it myself.

 

[Emily'smom]

Think of her weightloss in percentages. She's still at 87% of her original. At that rate the 20 pound cat you mention would only be down to 17.4 pounds. I've force-fed two cats that bounced back from 25% . I can't go back and read every post now, no diarrhea in the box or liquid discharge? As long as she's eating and drinking you're short-term safe.

No...poop is fine, eating a lot, drinking quite a bit but not crazy. Holding her steady for now....looking forward to having the dental issue resolved, and then we will see what happens!

 

[Emily'smom]

Did you notice no one is persecuting you about your own lives and jobs interfering with the "Strict regimen you MUST follow..." Your life has to go on as well and not for selfish reasons. You can't take care of an animal until you take care of yourself first. If you're five minutes late on the 12-12 cycle we won't be banging down your door. You're doing everything right and the love is obvious. Stay calm, be aware and the light will shine on you both very soon. This is the devotion that keeps inspiring me.

Thank you for your kind words. I really appreciate that. When I view some people's posts on other topics and they say how they are able to test every few hours all day long, they wake up during the night to test, they micro-test, etc., it gets overwhelming and you start to think "what is wrong with me that I am not doing all of that". Well, since neither one of us work from home, and our jobs are too far away to come home during the day, it is just not possible. And, our funds are limited, so paying a pet sitter to come to test, is not in the budget. We have a wonderful person that will watch Emily while we are on vacation or if we can't be home at night, but at $25.00 per visit, it gets quite expensive. Recently, I had to just take a step back, realize that I am doing all I can do for our cat time-wise and budget wise, and hope that that is enough and eventually we will get her on track. If things do not work out the way we are hoping, then at this point, I know we did the best that we could and we gave Emily a wonderful life, with excellent care. I will report back over the weekend, once her dental issues have been taken care of. Thank you so much! Have a beautiful day!

 

[Monica & Josie]

@Emily'smom Just wanted to check if you saw my post above as you didn't mention it and didn't want you to miss out on a brilliant feeder recommendation..!
Ps. Well done for taking a step back, I think we all need to do that in order to stop ourselves from getting too carried away and to preserve our sanity!
Good luck with the dental, hope all goes well

 

[Noah & me (GA)]

My last post, then hours on trains and streetcars to have my own ears poked. Dental work can hurt, don't be shy about asking for pain meds. I need Valium just to have my teeth cleaned.

 

[Amanda Whitehead]

My cat used to be 20lbs and he went down to 13lbs I could see every rib so what I started to do is feed him as much as he wanted. He gained back a lb in a week. 2-3 cans isn't that much my boy although he is a big framed tomcat is eating 4-6 cans a day before diabetes he only needed 2 a day. He's just had breakfast eaten almost 2 3onz cans. He has quite bad diabetes and isn't regulated yet. Hope you can get some weight on Emily fast. Sending hugs

 

[LuanneP]

Sorry I can't help with the numbers, I'm still trying to figure that out myself but what I've learned in the short time that I've had a Diabetic kitty is that it takes a village to care for him Luckily I have a reliable friend who lives next door so I've taught her how to test Merry's blood & give him his insulin and I've taught hubby to do it as well. Hubby was the last one I thought would help but he's been great & even spot checking Merry's blood when I ask him to if he's home. So if myself or my hubby are not home than my friend next door comes over to care for him. I also have a pet sitter I can count on as a last resort. It's definitely not easy & I miss sleeping in on my days off but it's worth it. We're all doing the best we can & it sounds like you're doing great for your baby too

 

[JanetNJ]

Thank you for your kind words. I really appreciate that. When I view some people's posts on other topics and they say how they are able to test every few hours all day long, they wake up during the night to test, they micro-test, etc., it gets overwhelming and you start to think "what is wrong with me that I am not doing all of that". Well, since neither one of us work from home, and our jobs are too far away to come home during the day, it is just not possible. And, our funds are limited, so paying a pet sitter to come to test, is not in the budget. We have a wonderful person that will watch Emily while we are on vacation or if we can't be home at night, but at $25.00 per visit, it gets quite expensive. Recently, I had to just take a step back, realize that I am doing all I can do for our cat time-wise and budget wise, and hope that that is enough and eventually we will get her on track. If things do not work out the way we are hoping, then at this point, I know we did the best that we could and we gave Emily a wonderful life, with excellent care. I will report back over the weekend, once her dental issues have been taken care of. Thank you so much! Have a beautiful day!

I was able to test a lot last summer because I'm a teacher and had off. When she went out of remission the end of this summer I just haven't been able to test like I did now that school has started. So I do my preshot test, and when I'm not exhausted try to catch a +4 at night. On the weekend I try to get a few extras in. All we can do is the best we can do.

 

[Emily'smom]

Hi,
I'm sorry to hear you are still struggling with Emily.
We feed Josie more less whenever she asks for food, little and often seem to be working better for her.
This automatic pet feeder was a lifesaver for us to keep my sanity over obsessing so much how to feed her the right times and get some sleep/go to work...
I can really recommend it as it's simple, reliable, easy to use and you can set up 5 feedings in one go! We have it set for midday, midnight, 4pm and an empty slot for two hours prior feeding to 'take the food away'.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mate-Automatic-Pet-Feeder-Digital/dp/B01AUYLVU8/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20

Keeping the spreadsheet up to date is key so yes, try to get as much data as possible.
Try not to get too obsessed with the details ( I had to stop doing that too before I went nuts! ) and just focus on the bigger picture one thing at the time taking each day as it comes.

Hope this info helps and also hope that you will be able to get Emily on the right path soon and she will feel well again to be a happy kitty!

Thank you , Monica. I did not see your post, so thank you for alerting me. I think that 5-section feeder would be great for us, especially as she is so crazed about food right now. I swear, if I kept putting cans down, she would just gobble them up one right after another. Lousy day today with her numbers. There is just no rhyme or reason to this. My husband is getting aggravated as we watch Emily waste away and he is completely convinced that we need to switch insulin. I am not in disagreement at this point. I also keep thinking back to our beginning weeks with the diagnoses and insulin injections. Within 2 weeks time, she was looking beautiful (her fur), eating normally, peeing normally and drinking normally. On .5 units 2x per day at that point, the vet said her mid-cycle number was too low during her all day glucose curve, but she was acting fine! Something is being missed here. The only difference at that time besides the .5 units (now she has been getting .25) was her diet. At that time she was eating "prescription" (ha!), Purina DM dry, and low-carb wet. Now, she is completely off of dry and on strictly low-carb wet. I am starting to think this cat may need more carbs than she is getting. I know that seems counterproductive, but I don't see how she could have seemed to make an immediate turn around in that time period and quite honestly has been going down hill ever since, and the only thing that has changed is the amount of insulin she is getting, and her diet. UGH! I never thought this would be so hard or so frustrating. It is literally driving me crazy, but like you said I have to force myself to take a step back or it is just all consuming.

 

[Emily'smom]

My cat used to be 20lbs and he went down to 13lbs I could see every rib so what I started to do is feed him as much as he wanted. He gained back a lb in a week. 2-3 cans isn't that much my boy although he is a big framed tomcat is eating 4-6 cans a day before diabetes he only needed 2 a day. He's just had breakfast eaten almost 2 3onz cans. He has quite bad diabetes and isn't regulated yet. Hope you can get some weight on Emily fast. Sending hugs

Thank you, Amanda. I hope you can get your boy regulated too! I don't feel like this should be so hard!!

 

[Emily'smom]

Sorry I can't help with the numbers, I'm still trying to figure that out myself but what I've learned in the short time that I've had a Diabetic kitty is that it takes a village to care for him Luckily I have a reliable friend who lives next door so I've taught her how to test Merry's blood & give him his insulin and I've taught hubby to do it as well. Hubby was the last one I thought would help but he's been great & even spot checking Merry's blood when I ask him to if he's home. So if myself or my hubby are not home than my friend next door comes over to care for him. I also have a pet sitter I can count on as a last resort. It's definitely not easy & I miss sleeping in on my days off but it's worth it. We're all doing the best we can & it sounds like you're doing great for your baby too

Thank you, Luanne! You are lucky you have a friend you can rely on. I feel so hesitant to ask a neighbor, because it seems like such a big responsibility. My husband is good at giving the injection, but for some reason, he is reluctant to do the test. So at this point, that responsibility is falling on me. We will work it out one way or the other. Best of luck to your cat! Sounds like you have a good network or support around you!

 

[Emily'smom]

I was able to test a lot last summer because I'm a teacher and had off. When she went out of remission the end of this summer I just haven't been able to test like I did now that school has started. So I do my preshot test, and when I'm not exhausted try to catch a +4 at night. On the weekend I try to get a few extras in. All we can do is the best we can do.

Thanks, Janet. You are making me feel better....I appreciate that. Feeling frustrated with Emily's numbers today. Just makes no sense to me. UGH!

 

[JanetNJ]

Thank you , Monica. I did not see your post, so thank you for alerting me. I think that 5-section feeder would be great for us, especially as she is so crazed about food right now. I swear, if I kept putting cans down, she would just gobble them up one right after another. Lousy day today with her numbers. There is just no rhyme or reason to this. My husband is getting aggravated as we watch Emily waste away and he is completely convinced that we need to switch insulin. I am not in disagreement at this point. I also keep thinking back to our beginning weeks with the diagnoses and insulin injections. Within 2 weeks time, she was looking beautiful (her fur), eating normally, peeing normally and drinking normally. On .5 units 2x per day at that point, the vet said her mid-cycle number was too low during her all day glucose curve, but she was acting fine! Something is being missed here. The only difference at that time besides the .5 units (now she has been getting .25) was her diet. At that time she was eating "prescription" (ha!), Purina DM dry, and low-carb wet. Now, she is completely off of dry and on strictly low-carb wet. I am starting to think this cat may need more carbs than she is getting. I know that seems counterproductive, but I don't see how she could have seemed to make an immediate turn around in that time period and quite honestly has been going down hill ever since, and the only thing that has changed is the amount of insulin she is getting, and her diet. UGH! I never thought this would be so hard or so frustrating. It is literally driving me crazy, but like you said I have to force myself to take a step back or it is just all consuming.

I think you need to go back to the lantus boards and read the yellow stickies describing the two protocol choices for dosing lantus. Decide which you are more comfortable with... Tight Regulation or the Go Slow method. What you are doing now isn't working.

 

[JanetNJ]

Thank you, Luanne! You are lucky you have a friend you can rely on. I feel so hesitant to ask a neighbor, because it seems like such a big responsibility. My husband is good at giving the injection, but for some reason, he is reluctant to do the test. So at this point, that responsibility is falling on me. We will work it out one way or the other. Best of luck to your cat! Sounds like you have a good network or support around you!

Does he think testing hurts the cat? Have him watch the video of how I test in my signature

 

[Emily'smom]

I think you need to go back to the lantus boards and read the yellow stickies describing the two protocol choices for dosing lantus. Decide which you are more comfortable with... Tight Regulation or the Go Slow method. What you are doing now isn't working.

I agree it is not working. My husband feels very strongly that it is not working. What I am not certain of, and don't know how I can figure out, is if this bottle of Lantus is still good. (This is just one more thing running through my mind trying to figure this out). We bought it in early June. Obviously, I know all about the "frailness" of this insulin. I think we have been following the "rules" with it carefully. I know most people use it until the last drop is gone from the bottle, which takes a lot longer than the 30 day so-called expiration date. My fear is that for some reason if it is not good, and it is contributing to her inability to regulate, then we are just chasing our tail for nothing. But to eliminate the possibility that the bottle is not good, and invest another $300.00 in something that may or may not be right for our cat doesn't seem feasible either. Although I was not here for the last visit with the vet (last week), after looking at Emily's chart (which she loved, by the way!), she said to my husband "this is clearly not working for your cat". I agree. She herself has been diabetic, and she said she was on more than one insulin before she found the one that was right for her. So, I don't think I should be so hung up on the fact that Lantus may be the right choice for a lot of cats, and was the insulin recommended by our old vet. While it may work for most, perhaps it is just not right for Emily, for whatever reason. Regarding your question about Ross doing the pre-test...no, I don't think he thinks it hurts her, I think he is just bothered by a pin-prick that draws blood. LOL! The injection, he has no issues with. I think it is the drop of blood that makes him weird. Hahahaha!

 

[JanetNJ]

I agree it is not working. My husband feels very strongly that it is not working. What I am not certain of, and don't know how I can figure out, is if this bottle of Lantus is still good. (This is just one more thing running through my mind trying to figure this out). We bought it in early June. Obviously, I know all about the "frailness" of this insulin. I think we have been following the "rules" with it carefully. I know most people use it until the last drop is gone from the bottle, which takes a lot longer than the 30 day so-called expiration date. My fear is that for some reason if it is not good, and it is contributing to her inability to regulate, then we are just chasing our tail for nothing. But to eliminate the possibility that the bottle is not good, and invest another $300.00 in something that may or may not be right for our cat doesn't seem feasible either. Although I was not here for the last visit with the vet (last week), after looking at Emily's chart (which she loved, by the way!), she said to my husband "this is clearly not working for your cat". I agree. She herself has been diabetic, and she said she was on more than one insulin before she found the one that was right for her. So, I don't think I should be so hung up on the fact that Lantus may be the right choice for a lot of cats, and was the insulin recommended by our old vet. While it may work for most, perhaps it is just not right for Emily, for whatever reason. Regarding your question about Ross doing the pre-test...no, I don't think he thinks it hurts her, I think he is just bothered by a pin-prick that draws blood. LOL! The injection, he has no issues with. I think it is the drop of blood that makes him weird. Hahahaha!

I think it's too soon to say lantus isn't working.... I think it's the dosing strategy (or lack thereof) that's not working. Lantus works past the 30 day expiration when stored in the refrigerator. I don't personally use it so I'll let someone else speak to its expiration timeline.

I can say that if you are in the United States you can order lantus 3ml pens (use them like mini vials) from Marks marine pharmacy in Canada for a lot less. 5 3ml Pens cost about $150 and last will give you about a years supply. Plus you can use it up without throwing half of it away (money out the window).
https://rxcanada4less.com/

 

[Monica & Josie]

Thank you , Monica. I did not see your post, so thank you for alerting me. I think that 5-section feeder would be great for us, especially as she is so crazed about food right now. I swear, if I kept putting cans down, she would just gobble them up one right after another. Lousy day today with her numbers. There is just no rhyme or reason to this. My husband is getting aggravated as we watch Emily waste away and he is completely convinced that we need to switch insulin. I am not in disagreement at this point. I also keep thinking back to our beginning weeks with the diagnoses and insulin injections. Within 2 weeks time, she was looking beautiful (her fur), eating normally, peeing normally and drinking normally. On .5 units 2x per day at that point, the vet said her mid-cycle number was too low during her all day glucose curve, but she was acting fine! Something is being missed here. The only difference at that time besides the .5 units (now she has been getting .25) was her diet. At that time she was eating "prescription" (ha!), Purina DM dry, and low-carb wet. Now, she is completely off of dry and on strictly low-carb wet. I am starting to think this cat may need more carbs than she is getting. I know that seems counterproductive, but I don't see how she could have seemed to make an immediate turn around in that time period and quite honestly has been going down hill ever since, and the only thing that has changed is the amount of insulin she is getting, and her diet. UGH! I never thought this would be so hard or so frustrating. It is literally driving me crazy, but like you said I have to force myself to take a step back or it is just all consuming.

Oh I feel your frustration I really do!

I can't give you dosage advice or anything on Lantus as never used it but I can tell you that you are not on your own trying to figure out your kitty's curious and puzzling case.

I have my own mystery kitty who is not a straightforward case either.. Plus we just changed Josie's insulin as well to ProZinc last week and as eager as I was to see some immediate results and get easily frustrated and confused with the odd high numbers that don't make sense at all I realise now that I have to take a chill pill, give it some time, monitor, collect data and keep adjusting the dosage until we get it right.
It is frustrating when kitties don't respond the way they supposed to or we would expect them to but we gotta accept that we have to take their lead and not the other way around.
You are obviously a devoted and caring cat parent and doing the best you can, I think you and I will need to put on our patience pants and brace ourselves for the ride expecting the unexpected!

My gut feeling is that you should give Lantus a bit more time. It has a very good success rate and it might just be the case of finding the right dose and balance. Ask for more support from the experts here, that's what I am doing and been getting some really good input from these ladies.

As for food I don't think you can go wrong by giving Emily low carb food and no dry at all as that is the sensible choice for diabetic cats.
Maybe look for something better quality with higher protein content with no fillers or additives. We found Josie something really good that I am able to order here in the UK , a German make called Ropocat which has only 100% chicken listed as ingredient plus the vitamins & minerals and only 1% carbs! Josie loves it and seem to be thriving on it.
She eats less of it as well interestingly as it is more filling due to good quality high protein content.
Maybe you can find something similar where you live and hopefully Emily will start putting on some weight, alongside finding the right insulin dose which should also help her to bounce back and feel well again.
The automatic feeder should help you with the regular feeds as well especially when you're both working long hours, should keep the blood sugar levels more even throughout the day/night.

I know it is very hard to watch them struggle and feel bad for being unable to 'fix' them ( that's how I've been feeling these days.. ) but we can only do the best we can and hope that eventually we will get it right - so hang in there!

Let us know how the dental went, there's a good chance that might be the main reason for messing up those numbers..
Actually this just made me think, has Emily had a full blood work, maybe ultrasound/X-ray and general check up done recently to eliminate the possibility of anything else that might be affecting her overall wellness?
Thinking of you and Emily..

 

[Noah & me (GA)]

My husband is good at giving the injection, but for some reason, he is reluctant to do the test. So at this point, that responsibility is falling on me. We will work it out one way or the other.

I'm not caught up on everything here. I made a huge mistake telling my wife "I've got it Honey" with both our diabetic cats. Maybe that's a guy thing. If you can get help take it, it may come from anywhere. Poking holes in a cat with a migraine is no fun, I should never have done that.
I mentioned earlier Noah's teeth. He absolutely despises any oral meds so a compounding pharmacy makes him transdermal BUPE that tickles his ears. Now his pain is managed and he went from miserable to just an old cat.

 

[Emily'smom]

Hello everyone,
I wanted to write a short post to let you know that Emily had her tooth extracted and teeth cleaned on Friday. Unfortunately, although the surgery went well, her health declined over the weekend. Yesterday Ross and I took her to the emergency veterinary hospital near us and we were told that she had ketones in her urine. As you know this diabetes journey with Emily (since June) has been a difficult one. I think her small size did not help us treat her effectively, and ultimately the disease took its toll on her tiny body. We made the difficult decision to put Emily to sleep yesterday...always such a hard one to make, but I am confident that we did everything we could for "our girl" and that the decision to end her life when we did, was the right one. I cannot thank all of you enough who took the time to help me and those who gave me the confidence to inject, home test, and set up a chart, as well as your countless suggestions and encouragement. Your knowledge and your willingness to share and take the time to do so meant everything to me and helped to enhance the last few months of Emily's life. I hope I can provide the same help to others, and pay it forward to someone else who is struggling with the same issues with their beloved pet. xoxo

 

[Monica & Josie]

Oh no, I am so very sorry to hear this!

You did everything you possibly could for Emily throughout all the struggles of her rollercoaster journey.

May all the loving memories you shared bring you peace and keep your heart warm.
Your precious girl will be waiting for you by the Rainbow Bridge..

 

[Noah & me (GA)]

I am so sorry to hear this. Bye Emily, we were all pulling so hard for you. You fought the good fight.

 

[JanetNJ]

Hello everyone,
I wanted to write a short post to let you know that Emily had her tooth extracted and teeth cleaned on Friday. Unfortunately, although the surgery went well, her health declined over the weekend. Yesterday Ross and I took her to the emergency veterinary hospital near us and we were told that she had ketones in her urine. As you know this diabetes journey with Emily (since June) has been a difficult one. I think her small size did not help us treat her effectively, and ultimately the disease took its toll on her tiny body. We made the difficult decision to put Emily to sleep yesterday...always such a hard one to make, but I am confident that we did everything we could for "our girl" and that the decision to end her life when we did, was the right one. I cannot thank all of you enough who took the time to help me and those who gave me the confidence to inject, home test, and set up a chart, as well as your countless suggestions and encouragement. Your knowledge and your willingness to share and take the time to do so meant everything to me and helped to enhance the last few months of Emily's life. I hope I can provide the same help to others, and pay it forward to someone else who is struggling with the same issues with their beloved pet. xoxo

oh no! I'm so sorry to hear this. Fly free, Emily.

 

[Emily'smom]

Oh no, I am so very sorry to hear this!

You did everything you possibly could for Emily throughout all the struggles of her rollercoaster journey.

May all the loving memories you shared bring you peace and keep your heart warm.
Your precious girl will be waiting for you by the Rainbow Bridge..

Thank you Monica, your sweet words and for the beautiful poem. Been a hard few days with a quiet house, no testing to do, no injections to give. Life will slowly return to normal, and at some point I am confident we will want someone else to join our family. For now, we think of our sweet Emily and the 5 wonderful years we had with her. xoxo

 

[Monica & Josie]

Yes it must be all very strange not having to do any of this demanding routine and must be so saddening and empty to be at home without Emily. I think your busy schedule will probably help you to get distracted and time will help to heal your heartbreak. Thinking of you xx

 

[Emily'smom]

Yes it must be all very strange not having to do any of this demanding routine and must be so saddening and empty to be at home without Emily. I think your busy schedule will probably help you to get distracted and time will help to heal your heartbreak. Thinking of you xx

Yes, no doubt, life will need to move forward and as we all know "time heals all wounds". Tonight when I got home from work I washed out her litter box, and yesterday I returned all of the unopened cans of food to the grocery store. I had a whole closet full, since she was often picky. I will be giving most of her "medical items" to our pet sitter, as she also has a diabetic cat, and we all know how expensive it is to purchase these items. Since she already has a glucose meter, I will be listing ours on this site for free, should anyone with financial difficulty need one. I almost hate to get rid of Emily's things because little by little that erases her presence from our house, but I know it is what needs to be done. So many nice memories of our little munchkin, and I am sure that at some point in the not-to-distant future, another furry friend will be welcomed into our home.

 

[Fluffles]

I'm so sorry for your loss. Just read your whole post and its so clear you tried your very best. Emily knew that and knew you loved her very much. She's at peace now. Thinking of you and sending hugs

 

[Monica & Josie]

Yes, no doubt, life will need to move forward and as we all know "time heals all wounds". Tonight when I got home from work I washed out her litter box, and yesterday I returned all of the unopened cans of food to the grocery store. I had a whole closet full, since she was often picky. I will be giving most of her "medical items" to our pet sitter, as she also has a diabetic cat, and we all know how expensive it is to purchase these items. Since she already has a glucose meter, I will be listing ours on this site for free, should anyone with financial difficulty need one. I almost hate to get rid of Emily's things because little by little that erases her presence from our house, but I know it is what needs to be done. So many nice memories of our little munchkin, and I am sure that at some point in the not-to-distant future, another furry friend will be welcomed into our home.

Aaah... it is so sad and hard to clear out their things and I'm sure that you will come across in the house all those little reminders for a long time. Nothing will erase your precious memories though.
You are clearly a very caring and compassionate person and when you are ready to welcome another furry friend that you can give all your affection to they will be very lucky to have you.
Maybe we'll hear from you again one day here on the board if you feel you would like to give support to other desperate new owners and wish you well xx