Spot has diabetes, WAHHHH

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We just found out our male cat, Spot, 13, has diabetes. We spent a fortune at the vet's, where he was there for two days getting tested, hydrated, shot, curved, and hopefully got some psychological counseling. I don't understand why my cat got this when I've always fed him CANNED cat food like Wellness and Merricks, sometimes Natural Balance (but I wouldn't now because I see it has rice), EVO, etc. Right before he got this he was eating Instinct canned--that has no GRAINS. BUT, guilty mom, I did feed him (and the other cat) a small amt of crunchies (dry food, premium, no grain) as well, but it was like 10 pieces (twice a day, however). But my kitty still got sick? Is diabetes always caused by diet? From reading the website here it sounds like it. Anyway, the vet wanted us to feed him Purina canned food (DM), but I read many sites about cat diabetes and thought I knew better (ha ha) so I have him back on regular canned food, only now I'm feeding him Fancy Feast classics and combining it with Instinct raw food. (Never in my life would I have guessed Fancy Feast is a great cat food, but what do I know?) I am an impatient person and cannot bring myself to read carb/fat/protein charts that so many others here have painstakingly read (bad mommy). I just want to know if the Fancy Feast classic food and the Instinct raw (mash a bit in with the FF) sounds like a good plan. I'm worrying every day, twice a day, about Spot's NUMBERS. And they are all over the place. We are giving him 1 shot of insulin a day. I do not want to OD on the insulin, especially since we have him on the Catkins diet. I read Lisa Pierson's website and she warned about that. Anyway, that's my concern right now, diet. I don't want to talk about insulin types, meters, readings, etc. My head is exploding as it is. Spot's ears are being pricked daily, twice a day. I would like to have a future where I don't have to do this to him.

Thanks, and I appreciate this forum. Jennifer
 
I relate to your questions about WHY. I thought diabetes happened to older fat cats. But my diabetic cat is 6 and weighs 7 pounds! Meanwhile, our fat 11 yo cat is just fine. Who knows? Just don't blame yourself. You've been doing everything right.

I don't have much advice to offer. I'm new in this journey myself. Wishing you lots of luck with Spot.
 
i think your diet plan sounds perfectly fine :-)

fwiw, some of it is genetics. and some get pushed over the edge by steroid use. my Mousie was diagnosed at 4 1/2 years old and has been diabetic near 6 years now. she's never been overweight or ever had any other problems that could have caused it. my fiance tells her she's defective, that she was born without a pancreas :lol:

don't slap me but i do want to mention i see one glitch with the insulin administration but i won't harp on it right now :-)
 
No, feline diabetes is NOT just due to diet issues....there are many causes, like steroid induced for one, and it could be just plain old sick pancreas. If the pancreas cannot do its job, you have problems.

Another cause could be one of a handful if insulin resistance conditions, one being caused by a pituitary tumor, secretion of excess growth hormone.

Sure, obesity and diet seem to be contributors to feline diabetes but there are other causes, some not known, so there is no point in your feeling guilty.

http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/brochures/diabetes.html

One thing for sure, cut out all the dry food because it's sure not helping with the condition.

Whether he will be able to recover and not need insulin some day, there is no way to tell.
All you can do is test his BG before each shot, and more often if possible, record the numbers, and watch for the numbers to lower to the point where you are skipping shots.

What insulin are you giving?

I know you may not want to talk about it all now, but just know that you do not need to have all the expenses from the vet because you can handle everything on your own at home, vet not needed for more than the rx for the insulin.
You can do all the shots and testing, and also even give fluids and meds yourself at home.
Forget about the curves at the vet office... crazy expensive and worthless because stress alone will skew all the numbers.

The food you are feeding is just fine, except the dry, and tell your vet you are not going to feed the expensive vet food.
 
Slap me if you like but I'm with Cindy, there's no insulin that should be administered only once a day, none of them will last that long so it's not surprising you have numbers all over the place.

Vyktor wasn't fed dry food at all when he was diagnosed, however the canned food he'd been getting turned out to be full of cereal (also Fancy Feast but not the Classic varieties). It also turned out he had triaditis. Pancreatitis and triaditis are closely related to diabetes but it's a bit of a chicken and egg thing about which one leads to the other.

If you hope to get Spot into remission you have certainly found the right place to help you do that, welcome aboard :-D
 
Guys, the cat has been taken off the dry food, as I said!

I also said I already spent a fortune at the vet, so, can't undo that. We have everything so we can do testing ourselves, but yes, the vet ran curves and kept him hospitalized. Done already, but don't really want to take him back unless absolutely necessary.

This morning it took about 5 times to get his blood. He became very upset.
 
ammonzon said:
I am an impatient person and cannot bring myself to read carb/fat/protein charts that so many others here have painstakingly read (bad mommy).

Here's the list of low carb gluten free Fancy Feast: http://www.felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm
:smile: Just print out and take it to the store with you :smile:

You can also post and ask for a list of the low carb Fancy Feast varieties if the food charts are too confusing. Then just print out the responses.



I just want to know if the Fancy Feast classic food and the Instinct raw (mash a bit in with the FF) sounds like a good plan.


Yes, Fancy Feast and the Nature's Variety raw food is fine for your diabetic cat :smile:


ammonzon said:
Guys, the cat has been taken off the dry food, as I said!

I also said I already spent a fortune at the vet, so, can't undo that. We have everything so we can do testing ourselves, but yes, the vet ran curves and kept him hospitalized. Done already, but don't really want to take him back unless absolutely necessary.

This morning it took about 5 times to get his blood. He became very upset.


Take a deep breath and calm down :YMHUG: It's understandable to be overwhelmed and frustrated your cat's diabetes diagnosis. Diabetes is really manageable and is not the end of the world. The "Dear Mom" letter might make you feel better: http://www.felinediabetes.com/dear-mom.htm

Blood glucose testing is frustrating for many to get the hang of doing but don't give up. Have you seen the hometesting tips and videos? http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287 Warming the ear really really well will help. So would trying a higher depth setting on the lancet device, if you are using that.
 
ammonzon said:
Guys, the cat has been taken off the dry food, as I said!

I also said I already spent a fortune at the vet, so, can't undo that. We have everything so we can do testing ourselves, but yes, the vet ran curves and kept him hospitalized. Done already, but don't really want to take him back unless absolutely necessary.

This morning it took about 5 times to get his blood. He became very upset.

Can you describe how you are testing him? I am betting lots of people have tips to offer you... my two pretty much slept through ear pokes, so I was lucky and have no tips.
Here's one of many videos that can help with testing:
Testing on cat’s ear

What insulin are you giving? Different insulins work differently, so it would help to know this info.
What are some of the numbers you are getting when you test?

You are feeding just fine for a diabetic cat, so no problem there!
And as for taking Spot back to the vet, there's really no need unless Spot is sick. You can test at home and give insulin and also fluids if needed, no vet visit required.
 
We are giving him insulin once a day because he was at 55 just two days ago, and that's what the vet recommended, as well. But his numbers are much higher now, so we are going to start giving him injections twice a day. I just feel weird making all these decisions on my own. On the other hand, don't want to be co-dependent on the vet.
 
ammonzon said:
We are giving him insulin once a day because he was at 55 just two days ago, and that's what the vet recommended, as well. But his numbers are much higher now, so we are going to start giving him injections twice a day. I just feel weird making all these decisions on my own. On the other hand, don't want to be co-dependent on the vet.

What is the name of the insulin you are giving?
Lantus, Levemir, PZI, N, or something else?

No cats do well on insulin only once a day; their metabolism is much faster than a human's.
Giving insulin once a day is like riding a giant roller coaster.... insulin brings the number down and then 8 to 12 hours later the insulin runs out and the cat's numbers soar high again. If you are worried about going too low, why not give a lesser dose? If 1u is bringing your cat low or you think it is, then just give .5u of insulin.... but test before each shot, and give shots every 12 hours.

Knowledge is power. Once you understand what needs to be done, and when, YOU will be able to teach you vet.

By home testing, you will 'see' exactly what the insulin is doing for your cat.... otherwise, you will stay worried because you just don't know how high or low your cat is going.

You will still need your vet, for medications and dentals and vaccines and fixing broken bones; vets will always be needed for those areas and also for doing blood and urine draws for testing.
Otherwise, you will be just fine on your own to take care of Spot's diabetes.
 
ammonzon said:
We are giving him insulin once a day because he was at 55 just two days ago, and that's what the vet recommended, as well. But his numbers are much higher now, so we are going to start giving him injections twice a day.

When you change the insulin dose it typically takes a day or two, sometimes a little more, to see any noticeable effect on the blood glucose levels. So bgs may seem hhigh after a dose change but the body just needs time to adjust.

Can you post the numbers you have been getting from your cat since you started testing?

Are you using the correct insulin syringes for the insulin? U40 insulin syringes for U40 insulin OR U100 insulin syringes for U100 insulin? Are you measuring 1 unit correctly?

Some vets just don't know much about treating feline diabetes or haven't kept up with the latest info. Many people on this board have long time experiences with a diabetic cat and want to help you :smile:
 
I agree with Gayle--if he's dropping down to 55 on 1u, then .75u or .5u twice a day is a much better option. In order to get a cat into remission, their blood glucose levels need to be in a normal range for as much of the day as possible--since the longest lasting insulins only last 12 hrs in a cat, that means they should always be dosed twice a day. Otherwise, you're lowering blood glucose levels too low for half the day, and then shooting them up high the other half.

What insulin are you using? Some insulins are very good for cats (Lantus, Levemir, Prozinc), and some insulins are not good at all (Humulin N/NPH, Vetsulin/Caninsulin).
 
That's good! Lantus is a great insulin with a high remission rate.

Also, if you describe some the problems with testing that you're having, then maybe someone can help...one of the biggest problems when people first start out is that they use too small a gauge lancet (30-33g). You want to use a 26-28g lancet when starting out. Cats have very few nerve endings in their ears, so the pricks don't hurt them at all. What they don't like is being restrained, or being startled by the lancet device/person poking them. They can also sense when you are upset, which in turn makes them upset. The larger gauge allows you to get a big enough drop of blood on the first try, so you're done quickly. If you reduce the amount of time it takes you to get blood, the cat will calm down and not have such a problem with it.

Also, you want to give a low carb treat after every test--this is crucial because once your cat figures out test=treat, he will become very cooperative. Bandit fought me tooth and claw the first week or two of testing, and I was in tears thinking he was going to die because it was so hard testing him. Today, he comes running when he hears the glucose meter click on, jumps in his testing basket, lies down and starts purring. Never underestimate the power of treats!
 
Also, you want to give a low carb treat after every test--

Can you recommend some? Thanks for the tips re the lancets.

Thanks also Gayle for the video tip on the ear pricking procedure. This site is very helpful!
 
Sure! Here's a list: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9172&p=90450&hilit=treats#p90450

I give Bandit Beefeaters Freeze Dried Chicken and Salmon Treats from Petsmart. They're very reasonably price considering how much you get in one container! Some people also get freeze dried 100% chicken treats in the dog treat section--they can be more economical that way if you have multiple cats, but right now it's just me and Bandit, so the cat ones work great for us.

He also getsFancy Feast Appetizers as a treat a few times a week--they are all low carb.

You can also give him anything that's 100% meat (just nothing fried). Some people boil chicken or even give slices of raw meat or fish.
 
Welcome to the board! We all felt as overwhelmed as you are feeling right now, so when we say it will get better, we mean that from the heart. It will. My Mikey was diagnosed in November, and I still nave a few :shock: and :o and :? moments, but it's gotten so much better with everyone's help.

If you haven't, you might want to pop over to the Lantus insulin support group (ISG) and read the starred "stickies" at the top of the page. They were put together by our members and are easy to follow and SO helpful. A 55, depending on where it was in the cycle does not necessarily mean you need to reduce the dose (on Lantus, under 50 is an automatic reduction),but that depends on where your cat was in his cycle and whether that was at the lowest point. In any case, you can certainly try .75U twice a day and see what the numbers tell you. Some cats need more, some need less. My cat is well regulated on just .1U!

Most of us have set up a spreadsheet to track our cats' numbers. I know that for me, while it seemed like a chore at first, it has helped me immensely. I'm much less stressed because I can really get a good idea of what he does on a daily basis and also a visual of how far he's come. Feel free to take a look at Mikey's SS via the link in my signature. You will see that 1) His numbers have steadily improved since his daignosis, and 2) He doesn't follow the "normal" Lantus curve...normal nadir (when the insulin is at its peak and the numbers are lowest) is around 6 hours from when the shot was given. Mikey's nadir is between 3 and 4 hours after his shot. Knowing that helps me if he does take a low dive (and he does it a lot), if he's in good numbers by +4, he's going to keep going up. Knowing if your 55 was at nadir or before will help you with both dosing and with your own stress. There are directions for setting up a spreadsheet in the tech section, and I'm sure someone who is more tech savvy than I can help you get set up!

You're doing the right things with diet and getting your cat on insulin, and things will improve for you both as you lean to take control of the testing, tracking, and dosing!
 
ammonzon said:
Also, you want to give a low carb treat after every test--

Can you recommend some? Thanks for the tips re the lancets.

Thanks also Gayle for the video tip on the ear pricking procedure. This site is very helpful!

Ah treats! My guys liked treats, but each had preferences.

For Oliver, he really loved raw chicken breast that I cut into little cubes for him. He also liked some treats I got at Petsmart in Toronto, My Mighty Lion, moist treats with no sweeteners. The other one he liked was the freeze dried Pure Bites chicken. I always got the biggest bags at the dog sections of Petsmart and other stores as it was cheaper than the cat teeny bags, and there were bigger chunks in the dog bags.

Shadoe loved ANY treats and would gobble hers and try to sneak some from the other guys.
She preferred her chicken lightly steamed, no raw for her! Also, she liked tiny bite sized pieces.
She liked all the other treats and also another round moist treat, again from the dog section... I look for moist and just read the ingredients to be sure there are NO sweeteners. It's not easy but they exist.

Some people have used pill pockets as a treat; only the duck and pea allergy flavor has no sweetener
 
So am I supposed to make the decisions now about how much insulin to give him, not give him? We found out mid-March and are still talking to our vet about this (phone calls, hope there's no bill attached). I don't really feel comfortable making these decisions. Sorry! Maybe I will later. I am learning a lot about diabetes from this site, and from Spot, though.

Another question. This is selfish. But still.... Are you cat lovers ever allowed to go on vacation now? I can't imagine going to visit my 90 yr old mother now that our cat is diabetic. And he does not travel well.
 
ammonzon said:
So am I supposed to make the decisions now about how much insulin to give him, not give him? We found out mid-March and are still talking to our vet about this (phone calls, hope there's no bill attached). I don't really feel comfortable making these decisions. Sorry! Maybe I will later. I am learning a lot about diabetes from this site, and from Spot, though.

Another question. This is selfish. But still.... Are you cat lovers ever allowed to go on vacation now? I can't imagine going to visit my 90 yr old mother now that our cat is diabetic. And he does not travel well.

About dosing, sure, you can easily decide on the dose... Home testing gives you the numbers to know how Spot is doing, and you can base your decisions using those numbers, and following the protocol
most of the others here are using. If you are in need of help, so long as you are tracking your test numbers in a google spreadsheet, lots of people here can help you! You don't need your vet at all for dosing.
Create your Spreadsheet

As for vacations, for sure you can! Others even travel with their cats. if you were going on vacation now, without Spot having diabetes, what would you do? You would have to have someone come in and feed Spot, right? Well, it would just be a bit different now. You could get someone who is able to come in at least twice a day to test and then give shots.
Many people get vet techs to come in, or there may be someone close to you now who will be able to give shots. When I was in Toronto, there was one lady who was out of town for a week, and I went over to test and give shots twice a day and her other neighbor living next door took care of the litter and food and water. There are some people who have taken their diabetic cat camping with them!
 
Thanks, Jennifer, his numbers are really good! We generally consider a cat in remission, or Off The Juice, when they maintain normal blood glucose numbers for 14 consecutive days without insulin (and on all subsequent tests after the 14 days). Mikey's numbers are good, but he's not ready to start a no-insulin trial yet. Normal numbers for a cat are 50-120 on a human meter, and we won't start weaning off of insulin until he's in the normal range, and preferably under 100, for seven consecutive days. So we still have a ways to go.

Mikey IS healthy...he's a happy, healthy, insulin-dependent diabetic. He's gained weight (he looked like a skeleton when diagnosed), and he plays and acts normal (for him, anyway. Normal is relative. Mikey's kind of a weirdo by most standards.) You would not realize that he wasn't normal if you didn't know he was a diabetic.

As for how long I will do the insulin...that's up to Mikey and his pancreas. I hope and pray he does go into remission, but if he doesn't, he'll stay on it for the rest of his life. He's only 12, so I hope that's a long time yet!

Like I said before, it gets easier. When Mikey was first diagnosed, I didn't know what I'd do and couldn't see how we could possibly do all this long term. Now, it's a lot easier. I'm going on vacation with friends this summer and he will stay home with a sitter. Not that you can tell from the spreadsheet, but I don't worry so much if I can't test all the time. It's just become part of my daily routine.
 
To Mikey's Mom - that's how old my kitty is. Mikey sounds like good boy. He's lucky, he has a good mommy.

I'm hoping this will get easier. Spot was at 140 this morning, when just 2 nights ago he was 358. I'm hoping the diet is helping. His coat looks really good now. His food doesn't seem that different from what we were giving him, except of course he's getting the insulin and NO dry food/grains.
 
food, treats

I am giving Spot Vitakitty chicken breast by Catswell: http://www.catswell.com/vitakitty/chicken_breast_jerky which doesn't seem to thrill him.

For food I've been blending in now some chicken Wellness with the Instinct raw, but that is because we had Wellness from earlier days. I hope Wellness chicken is ok. Seems like Wellness has weird starchy things in it and it might not be low carb. Is Fancy Feast classic foods the best option? If so, do you give a half can or a whole can? We feed Spot in the morning and in the evening. Half can doesn't seem like much.
 
Re: food, treats

ammonzon said:
I am giving Spot Vitakitty chicken breast by Catswell: http://www.catswell.com/vitakitty/chicken_breast_jerky which doesn't seem to thrill him.


Some cats don't care for jerky-like treats. Here's a list of other low carb treats you can use: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9172 Freeze dried meat treats are popular.

For food I've been blending in now some chicken Wellness with the Instinct raw, but that is because we had Wellness from earlier days. I hope Wellness chicken is ok. Seems like Wellness has weird starchy things in it and it might not be low carb.

Wellness canned food (not the Healthy Indulgence pouches) is fine :-D The carb content of Wellness is on [utl=https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8Uu8g1u8Su9YTgxNGE1MDItM2MyMC00Y2Y3LWI4ODMtMzhkYTkxOGM4NThk/edit?pli=1]this chart[/url] Most of the varties are low in carbs.

Is Fancy Feast classic foods the best option? If so, do you give a half can or a whole can? We feed Spot in the morning and in the evening. Half can doesn't seem like much.

The "best" food for your diabetic cat is the one that he likes to eat and you can afford :smile: Fancy Feast isn't any "better" than Wellness or any other brand. There are people here who feed only Fancy Feast because it is the only thing their cat will eat and/or it is inexpensive and/or it is the only food available.

The main drawback with Fancy Feast is that it only comes in those little 3 oz cans. Wellness, and other brands, are available in 5 oz and even the 13 oz can sizes which are more economical.

An unregulated diabetic cat may need two or three or more of the 3 oz cans a day or one 5 oz can a day. Unregualted diabetics are always hungry so they should have access to small meals throughout the day. Most people here use a timed feeder for this. A multi-compartment feeder with 2 or more trays is ideal because your cat can have mini meals to snack on all day.
 
ammonzon said:
Thanks, Squeem3. What is an unregulated diabetic?

To me, it's not being able to control your cat's numbers with insulin and food.
Once you have gathered enough data, you will know how Spot reacts and you can adjust dose and diet to balance what Spot does.
You will know what dose works for Spot, how adjustments affect Spot, etc.

My Oliver was eating close to 30oz of food a day, and eventually dropped way down to maybe 10-12 oz a day. My Shadoe was up to 24oz and dropped down to around 8-10 a day.
 
ammonzon said:
Thanks, Squeem3. What is an unregulated diabetic?

This is from the FDMB FAQ thread:
Q6.1. What is regulation?

A6.1. There are different definitions of regulation. As hometesting becomes more common, we've been getting a better understanding of what cats and their humans might be capable of. Janet & Fitzgerald propose the following "regulation continuum":
Not treated [blood glucose typically above 300 mg/dl (16.7 mmol/L), poor clinical signs]
Treated but not regulated [often above 300 (16.7) and rarely near 100 (5.6), poor clinical signs]
Regulated [generally below 300 (16.7) with glucose nadir near 100 (5.6), good clinical signs, no hypoglycemia]
Well regulated [generally below 200-250 (11.1-13.9) and often near 100 (5.6), no hypoglycemia]
Tightly regulated [generally below 150 (8.3) and usually in the 60-120 (3.3-6.7) range, no hypoglycemia, still receiving insulin]
Normalized [60-120 (3.3-6.7) except perhaps directly after meals -- usually not receiving insulin]

Carl
 
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