Spicoli pt 3

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W.K. said:
oh regretting not giving 4u...hindsight and all...
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Ahh hated those moments. I had one last night :facepalm: but I was so exhausted I knew I wouldn't be able to monitor him closely. Then I passed out on the sofa shortly after :rolleyes:. Have you tried Pancreas Booster? I had Maury on it for a bit and I'm thinking of starting it up again :bookworm:. Wasn't sure if it was helping but I think it helped him bounce less afterall.
 
Bumped back up to 4.5.. he's been running high. Think he may be having a P flare.. just vomited 2 times mainly bile. Gave some pepcid and anti nausea... He's looking pretty uncortable right now but hopefully those will kick in and help some. If he's not better by the AM will prolly be going into the vet.

Ordered the PetAlive P-booster this AM before all this.
 
Oh no, I'm sorry Spicoli isn't feeling well. Hopefully the meds will kick in and help him get back on the road to recovery soon. Let us know how he is!
 
If you can, you might want to grab a ketone test tonight too. Please keep us posted on how he's doing. Sending healing vines :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Djamila said:
If you can, you might want to grab a ketone test tonight too.
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HAHAHA!!! I'm working on it. He won't step on saran wrap and both times I've gone to shower he's decided to go...the stinker.

He seems to be doing much better this evening, ate a small snack late this afternoon, and ate most of his dinner (and breakfast this AM for that matter). Maybe it was just his IBS acting up. He hasn't thrown up again, either. But I'll be keeping a close eye on him :)
 
Oh he's also been playing pretty good. No mater how many toys I buy and rotate in, he tires of them. But bring out a tampon and it's magic. Weirdest thing ever. But he's always enjoyed tossing them around. Not to sound gross, but these are obviously new and in a wrapper. Maybe its the crinkle noise...
 
OMG... I'm dying laughing! I can absolutely see how a cat would think that was a great toy! And out of the wrapper, it's kind of like a mouse with a tail....:eek::smuggrin::cat::joyful:

I haven't tried the saran wrap myself, but I think the idea is to wrinkle it up in the corners where he usually pees so it catches some urine in the wrinkles. Not to cover the whole box. I don't think Sam would step on saran wrap covered litter either. Although Atticus (who has a bizarre love of plastic) would probably think it was great!

So glad to hear that he seems to be feeling better anyway. Fingers crossed it continues!
 
Djamila said:
And out of the wrapper, it's kind of like a mouse with a tail...
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I tried this too and it was a no go. Must be in the wrapper lol. He's been dong much better tonight and his bgs are actually dropping now.
I've got lots of novel protiens coming along with s. boulardii, fortiflora, SEB, and p-booster.

I'm a little hesitant to give them all at once, since I'm not sure of any reactions. I read this website http://www.foodfurlife.com/my-cat-has-diarrhea---what-do-i-do.html and it seems all are mentioned but the fortiflora but since he loves the taste and it's not a yeast like the s. boulardii, I can't see how it would hurt. Just hoping using them all together isn't wrong as long as I'm using the proper amounts. Maybe I'll skip the SEB for a while and see how the others do? Or just try one at time for a week or so with the p-booster.
 
I win!!! Finally caught him, negative for ketones, even tested it 2x to be sure.

and at +3 he's at 269. I swear I didn't give a fur shot this AM but he stayed high all day. Must have been because he wasn't feeling well. I smell him and check his fur after every shot..
 
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Wes, PetAlive is the one I use too. It's pretty popular. I think holding off on the SEB while giving the other stuff a try is a good idea since SEB has to be given alone and nothing else within 2 hours. I'm going to tag Lucy, she's used s. boulardii, fortiflora, and SEB at the same time, *I think*. @Squalliesmom :)
 
I believe the forti-flora should be fine. It's a probiotic, so I doubt it would affect much. I agree with Yong, maybe try holding off on the SEB at first?
 
Hi, Wes. I have used Fortiflora, S.boulardii, and SEB each singly. I have also used S.boulardii and SEB concurrently, just not dosed at the same time (e.g., S.boulardii at AM and PM meals, SEB at lunch or other times during the day). I have only ever used the Fortiflora by itself, but I can't see why using it in conjunction with the others should be a problem.
 
We started the S.boulardii today. The others are on their way still. So hopefully in a few days I'll see some results.
Squalliesmom said:
Hi, Wes. I have used Fortiflora, S.boulardii, and SEB each singly. I have also used S.boulardii and SEB concurrently, just not dosed at the same time (e.g., S.boulardii at AM and PM meals, SEB at lunch or other times during the day). I have only ever used the Fortiflora by itself, but I can't see why using it in conjunction with the others should be a problem.
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Thanks! I was thinking about doing the SEB at a snack time at least 2 hours after anything else. But I'm going to hold off on that till I see how he does with the S.boulardii and FortiFlora and if things improve then maybe only use it when his tummy acts up.
 
New food came today. I was hesitant to buy the Nature's Variety Instinct Lamb, Duck, Rabbit and Venison because he didn't take to them well before. It seems he likes the stinky new probiotic. He's gonna go nuts once the FortiFlora is in it too!! The duck is 11% so we might have to adjust for that. And for the most part I liked how they didn't include chicken/turkey. I think 1 of them has a little turkey in it... but what can you do. I also have some Halo Guinea Fowl (has some turkey), Wild Calling alligator, and Hounds and Gatos Lamb on the way, just to try some different things. He gets finicky if you feed him the same thing 2 days in a row.
I know not to expect anything to change over night, but I hope his next BM is easier on him. This cat is going to be eating better than we do lol.

Edit : WOW!! He just at at leat 4.5 of the 5.5 ounces I put down for his dinner!!! Haven't seen him eat that well in a LONG time :)
 
W.K. said:
New food came today. I was hesitant to buy the Nature's Variety Instinct Lamb, Duck, Rabbit and Venison because he didn't take to them well before. It seems he likes the stinky new probiotic. He's gonna go nuts once the FortiFlora is in it too!! The duck is 11% so we might have to adjust for that. And for the most part I liked how they didn't include chicken/turkey. I think 1 of them has a little turkey in it... but what can you do. I also have some Halo Guinea Fowl (has some turkey), Wild Calling alligator, and Hounds and Gatos Lamb on the way, just to try some different things. He gets finicky if you feed him the same thing 2 days in a row.
I know not to expect anything to change over night, but I hope his next BM is easier on him. This cat is going to be eating better than we do lol.

Edit : WOW!! He just at at leat 4.5 of the 5.5 ounces I put down for his dinner!!! Haven't seen him eat that well in a LONG time :)
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Wow! Alligator! Who'da thunk it?!
 
I'm glad I'm not the only one with a cat who requires a full menu of choices! That's great to hear that Spicoli liked his new dinner! Hopefully between the new protein options and the probiotics, he'll feel better!
 
Djamila said:
I'm glad I'm not the only one with a cat who requires a full menu of choices!
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Seriously... I used to keep all 12 FF classics on hand because of this.

Even though some of his numbers the past couple days might not be ideal and the vomiting/diarrhea we had, he's doing so good. Coat looks better than ever, grooming all the time like he used to, playing, all his normal cat things. Besides all the aforementioned I couldn't be happier with the "whole cat". He is happy so so am I :)
 
W.K. said:
Seriously... I used to keep all 12 FF classics on hand because of this.

Even though some of his numbers the past couple days might not be ideal and the vomiting/diarrhea we had, he's doing so good. Coat looks better than ever, grooming all the time like he used to, playing, all his normal cat things. Besides all the aforementioned I couldn't be happier with the "whole cat". He is happy so so am I :)
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Best news ever! :smuggrin: We forget that they can feel well even if they aren't ideally regulated.
 
I know I might be going overboard with supplements but I was considering also adding in a B12. Since we do also use pepcid from time to time (hopefully we wont have to anymore) and I know it can cause a reduction in b12 absorption, it's something I'm tossing around.
Do you guys and gals give B12 to your fur babies? He doesn't have nephropathy or any signs of it. Do cats just excrete any excess like humans do? I'm in the US and I see that the best form is by injection and requires and RX. I'm sure my vet would be opposed to this... Any advice?
 
W.K. said:
I know I might be going overboard with supplements but I was considering also adding in a B12. Since we do also use pepcid from time to time (hopefully we wont have to anymore) and I know it can cause a reduction in b12 absorption, it's something I'm tossing around.
Do you guys and gals give B12 to your fur babies? He doesn't have nephropathy or any signs of it. Do cats just excrete any excess like humans do? I'm in the US and I see that the best form is by injection and requires and RX. I'm sure my vet would be opposed to this... Any advice?
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A lot of US people buy a B12 supplement online called Zobaline and give it (3 mg dose daily). It's been successful in helping many FD kitties with neuropathy. It's a water soluble vitamin and excess is excreted in urine.

My guy doesn't have neuropathy but I felt his energy level was low a couple of months ago so I bought a lower dose B12 supplement (the methylcobalamin version) at a human pharmacy to try. He gets two 250 mcg tablets a day (1 tab AM and 1 tab PM) which translates into 500 mcg or 0.5 mg a day. I put it in his food dish with a little water. It easily crushes with a spoon and then I mix it into his food. It's tasteless (I tried it myself) and he's never refused his food because of it. I do think it's helped to boost his energy.
 
W.K. said:
I know I might be going overboard with supplements but I was considering also adding in a B12. Since we do also use pepcid from time to time (hopefully we wont have to anymore) and I know it can cause a reduction in b12 absorption, it's something I'm tossing around.
Do you guys and gals give B12 to your fur babies? He doesn't have nephropathy or any signs of it. Do cats just excrete any excess like humans do? I'm in the US and I see that the best form is by injection and requires and RX. I'm sure my vet would be opposed to this... Any advice?
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I gave some injectable B12 (Cyanocobalamin) to Maury when he had his p-flare, once a week. This form can help with mild inflammation and GI upsets and if he doesn't use it all, he would urinate excess :).
 
Think that I'll try the Zobaline first..

Bumped up to 4.75u. He hasn't given me any blues (or greens for that matter) the last few days. Probably had some in the evening cycles, but I'm not liking all these high numbers.
 
AMPS 479
+3 340
+5 371
PMPS 478

He was doing so good on the 4.5u!! If he doesn't drop a little lower tonight on the 3rd 4.75 cycle then up to 5u tomorrow I guess.
 
AMPS 264, retested at 273.
Went with 4.5u. Gonna be around today so I can monitor.
But jeez. It didn't look like he was going anywhere after the +5 last night, then bam. I'm happy for the lower PS but I wish he was a little more predictable.
 
+2 145 - gonna be watching him all day :)
+3 88 - gave 15% carb food to try and slow his drop

ketone test negative
 
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PMPS 624 WHOA!!
5u. maybe I should have stuck with 4.5u or 4.75 (what we hve been doing) But I doubt that would have brought him down into any good numbers tonight. I'll be up so I can watch him. He will probably stay high for a few cycles now :banghead:
 
I just saw your post over on the dry food discussion. I don't know if this could be a factor, but Sam couldn't tolerate any EVO at all without hitting higher numbers. It's only supposed to be 12% carbs, but there was something about it that just didn't work for him. I even tried just using it as treats, and even that was too much. I don't know what to suggest since i know Spicoli isn't the only kitty you're feeding, but thought it might be worth mentioning.
 
Djamila said:
I just saw your post over on the dry food discussion. I don't know if this could be a factor, but Sam couldn't tolerate any EVO at all without hitting higher numbers. It's only supposed to be 12% carbs, but there was something about it that just didn't work for him. I even tried just using it as treats, and even that was too much. I don't know what to suggest since i know Spicoli isn't the only kitty you're feeding, but thought it might be worth mentioning.
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Yeah... I plan on switching over to YA when it's time for some more dry, which will be soon. Typically he usually only goes over to the bowl while I'm right there to show me he's hungry. But I know that many kitties haven't done well this dry food. So it could be a factor, however he's been getting this since the beginning, even when he was regulated on .25u and getting a lot of NS. After he was DX we threw out the Science Diet and got this.
 
Remember, YA will send you a sample to try and make sure all the babies like it :). I think they'll send a sample of each formula if you really wanted lol. Dr. Elsey's will do the same, I've heard.
 
I think with the YA I'll get a sample of the LID mature zero version, since all our fur babies are over 7 now, and it seems to have low phosphorus (correct me if I'm wrong) and one of the civvies was showing signs that he could be headed towards kidney problems with his last sr. panel. I'll be sure to get a sample before I buy, since it is kinda $$$. This civvie is even more picky about what wet foods he will eat than Spicoli, actually both our civvies are. But I try to bribe them with some FortiFlora :) and it usually works. I haven't looked into Dr. Elsey's yet, but I see lots of members feeding that as well.

And we're having another very active cycle. Maybe the P-booster is helping? He was very high and flat last night after the bounce, and he'll probably bounce again today. There was actually no dry food left out last night, I left a bunch of different wet ones out.
AMPS 459
+3.5 158
+5 113
+6 73
 
I don't think the Dr. Elsey's will work. It looks like the only 2 dry food options I found on chewy are Chicken or Salmon. Salmon would work but I don't think they should be having that much fish, right?

Edit : On second thought, it might be ok. His BMs have been getting better even though he still eats small amounts of the EVO chicken/turkey.
 
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So at +10 we're at 186. I figure he'll be around 260-300 for pmps. I can't stay up all night lol while I can get a +4 i imagine.

So yesterday AMPS was 264 gave 4.5u and at +3 he had dropped to 88. Gave him MC food and he bounced like crazy.

Considering 4u or maybe even 3.75.

Thoughts?
 
W.K. said:
So at +10 we're at 186. I figure he'll be around 260-300 for pmps. I can't stay up all night lol while I can get a +4 i imagine.

So yesterday AMPS was 264 gave 4.5u and at +3 he had dropped to 88. Gave him MC food and he bounced like crazy.

Considering 4u or maybe even 3.75.

Thoughts?
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I think 4 u would be OK but go with 3.75 u if you're feeling a bit gun shy.
 
He's hitting the numbers you want to see, so reducing right now is going to stop that. I do understand that it can be stressful, but as long as you can monitor, I would keep going and let his body adjust to this. My guess is that he'll be higher again tonight, so you most likely won't need to stay up all night. Anything is possible with cats, but I'd be surprised if you got two active cycles in a row right now. Just my 2 cents.
 
He was 240 at PMPS so I did reduce to 4u. Maybe I shouldn't have... The 4.5u at 264 sent him down super fast - +3 was 88. Gonna grab a +3 in a little over an hour.
 
W.K. said:
Is this common when they're just really starting to have active cycles (again)? and bouncing some?
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If the dose is consistent, then many kitties will have an active cycle followed by a few higher flatter cycles. However, if the dose is moving around a lot, for example, people who dose on a sliding scale, then it becomes unpredictable with kitties spiking and dropping pretty much at random. That's one of the reasons why I lean towards consistent dosing, weighting the nadir more heavily than the pre-shots. Prozinc isn't a depot insulin the way Lantus is, but it also isn't as cleanly in-and-out as Vetsulin. On Prozinc, one cycle influences the next cycle which is why the protocol says to hold a dose for 3-6 cycles before changing (unless you get a non-shootable PS or a number less than 50).

Food is a factor too though - if the food values (carb/fat/protein, calories, etc) change a lot, that can also make cycle that are difficult to predict.

So yes, high flats are pretty normal when active cycles first show up, but there are a number of factors that influence how much you can count on that or not.

And of course, the biggest factor is the cat. Sam is super predictable <<anti-jinx, anti-jinx, anti-jinx>>, but Teasel and Chuck are super unpredictable, no matter how consistent Kris and Steph are. So a lot of it is just trying it, collecting data, and figuring out what works for each cat.
 
Djamila said:
And of course, the biggest factor is the cat. Sam is super predictable <<anti-jinx, anti-jinx, anti-jinx>>, but Teasel and Chuck are super unpredictable, no matter how consistent Kris and Steph are. So a lot of it is just trying it, collecting data, and figuring out what works for each cat.
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This kind of made me giggle. Right now Spicoli has been very unpredictable. A big change from our start, which is why I ask for so much input these days :) But for tonight I just wouldn't have been comfortable shooting the 4.5u with the data (little it is on these numbers). Grabbing a +4 in a few, he had a snack after his +3 so he may/may not have moved much. Just trying to prevent those nasty high bounce cycles and keep him in good ranges to the best of my ability.

But I ALWAYS appreciate any and all input from you guys. You few have helped me and Spicoli so much over these past few trying months. I wish I could give you all a great big hug :) I really cannot express how much I appreciate and respect all the advice all of you give us. If it weren't for you guys he might not be here now.
 
Yes I believe I read somewhere the YAZ Mature is lower in phosphorus :). Nice cycles, Spicoli :cat:, stay off the trampoline for your momma :p
 
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