Somebody Convince me Not to Euthanize!

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lshaffer

Member Since 2014
I HAVE HAD ENOUGH! I AM AT MY WITS' END! YES, I'M SCREAMING! YOU GUYS KEEP SAYING B-R-E-A-T-H-E, well, i did that and IT DIDN'T HELP!!!!

After two+ months of endless HELL and hemorrhaging money, and the last two weeks alone just dealing with the diabetes, or I should say NOT dealing with the diabetes. I've tried, I really, really have! I read everything on here and NONE of it goes along with what my vet is saying. NONE...OF...IT!

First they wanted to hospitalize Long John and get his readings right. I balked at that so they said I could do testing at home. I spent last week and over the weekend reading everything on this website. During that time, Long John was not getting any treatment, just drinking water and feeling lousy.

Today I got the ReliOn meter and my vet has decided that, since that's not THEIR meter, and they don't know how to deal with a human meter, we're back to hospitalizing him.

I've tried to find other vets in the area. I'm waiting for a call back from two of them. I tried calling the specialist clinic, and the one doctor who deals with diabetes is not there on Mondays. so we're going MORE days without treating him.

Somebody talk me out of calling Deceased Pet Care and just putting this poor cat out of his misery (and mine).
 
So,.....

* Your vet has likely 3-5 days of training treating a diabetic cat and dog - people and their cats here live it 24/7.

* Your vet can't bother to take time to understand the difference in human and pet meters is just adding 18 to the human number

* Your vet says to feed him high carb dry food - NO diabetic can do that, doesn't matter if it's a cat or a human...diabetes is diabetes. Your vet can't bother to understand that - he'd rather listen to the food sales rep

* Your vet says give him Humulin N - your vet can't bother to learn (what - 3 minutes?) that that insulin doesn't work well for cats but it IS better than nothing.

Hummm....something seems wrong with all this...doesn't it? A common thread seems to be "your vet can't bother..." - just do what I say and shut up. After all, I am the one with the diploma." I call that a God Complex.

Until you calm down, you can't make sense of this. All you're doing is upsetting yourself AND your cat. There are THOUSANDS walking in your shoes. The only reason you should kill your cat is that you aren't willing to put in the bit of time it takes to learn. YOU'VE ALREADY TAKEN THE BEST STEPS - YOU'RE HERE!!!

I'm not being nasty, I just know you MUST calm down - it seems confusing at first but it will fall in place over the next few days. A couple of weeks isn't all that long. I guarantee 2 weeks from now you'll look back and wonder why you were SO upset.

BREATHE! - That means CALM DOWN! If we added all the time of everyone here together - you'd find 'we' have decades of experience with diabetic cats!!!

BIG HUGE HUG!!! You CAN do this!
 
See my signature link Glucometer Notes, print it out, and smack your vet over the head give it to your vet. Those are reference ranges we use here successfully to manage our diabetic cats.
Updated info suggests the difference is about 18 mg/dL at low numbers.

Low carb food for cats reduces the glucose swings and the overall glucose levels from eating. Point your arrogant vet to veterinarian-written Cat Info. I personally helped a cat get off insulin just by changing the diet and home monitoring with those reference numbers above, only stopping by the cat's home roughly 4 to 5 times.
 
DON'T DO IT! I understand... I'm new to this too and I'm completely overwhelmed but honestly it sounds like you need a new vet. I also got the relion today because the other meter I had was very inconsistent with what the vet readings were (I had a target brand) so I'm trying this next and if it doesn't work then I guess I'll splurge for the Alpha Trak but I'm not happy about it if I do.

My vet just takes my cat for the day and does a glucose curve and compares meters. They haven't tried to hospitalize her or anything and right now we are just trying to get her regulated because she isn't yet. But don't give up hope! You will get a routine going!

Keep faith!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Hundreds and hundreds of cats are treated for diabetes and don't need to be euthanized. This is not a disease a cat has to die for.

There are only a few basic things that treating diabetes needs, at the base of it, your vet should be telling you the same things.

(1) the cat needs to be fed a diabetic appropriate diet
(2) the cat needs insulin
(3) the cats blood sugar needs to be monitored to see how it is doing.

If your vet is disagreeing with any of those, then you don't have a vet that is very knowledgeable in feline diabetes. What is usually where things vary is HOW you go about doing those things.

(1) low carb wet food is what is recommended here. If you think about it, that is what people do too, eat lower carbs and small frequent meals to balance their blood sugars. If the vet says food doesn't matter, that should sound wrong by your own thought process. If the vet insists on prescription food-while many on the board doesn't agree it is the best food, it is better than high carb food, just get the wet they offer not the dry.
(2) some vets go for the cheapest insulin first while people on the board go for what is best for cats first. You can use Google yourself and find that Humulin is not recommended for cats and Vetsulin has issues. Some cats do ok on them, but ask your vet for the best insulin for cats, not necessarily the cheapest.
(3) monitoring. be it at the vets, at home, weekly, curves, daily, multiple times a day. A cats blood sugar needs to be monitored if you are giving insulin. Its the only safe way to do it. Common sense should tell us that the more we monitor, the safer we keep our cat. A vet should be able to figure out how to work with the meter you have just fine. Take it in with you, have them poke your kitty and test with both meters off of the same poke. Figure out the % difference and they can figure your numbers will be that much different that what their meter would have been. Not exactly perfect, but gets them in the ballpark. If they are refusing, they are just being stubborn for no good reason and want to sell you the meter or something. There is absolutely no reason you can't use a Relion and test on a scale of 50-120 instead of their meter and test on a scale of 70-150.

I've gotten my own cat and working on my second foster cat going into remission by just following the steps on this board. It takes some discipline, but it certainly is worth it in the end to have them healthy again. These little beings depend on us to put our best foot forward in treating them. You've taken the steps to research yourself, so I can tell you want to. Its scary as hell at first. But it gets better and they are worth it.
 
Hi just jumping in here when Trey was first Dx my DH was doing the testing and I was a basket case ....hate needles . He was always tell Trey how sorry he was he had to do this and was stressed himself..lucky for me and Trey he got called away for a few days. Well cried and pulled up my big girl panties ..took lots of deep breaths and never say you are sorry. They feel your mood...you are stressed and sorry then they feel it is wrong and they don`t want it done. You have to be very calm and surround yourself with beautiful white peaceful light. wrap kitty in a towel and say we are going to help you feel better will only be a smill pick...do it let her go treat done!!!!! 1st time I tried took 5-6 pokes most never touch the ear was so scared did the above and sap done Trey never felt a thing...shortly after that he became my cat. even today he got up on the table laid on his towel and waited for me...I just throw his towel over his shoulder a comfort thing I guess. Its all about your mood...if you can remain calm and then so will try it what do you have to lose....Hugs and peaceful white light and healing green light surround all you furry one and peeps. Hugss Kath
4 year later he had a relaps and for 8 months he was back on insulin but now is 16 days off the juice (insulin)

I am afraid our vets are not very up on diabetic cats so here is the place my vets sends people now but took a few words and weeks of standing up to her....and now she tells me to come here too. Good luck and tons of healing green light to both of you.
 
My cat, who was expected to die, IS IN REMISSION.

How did it happen? Low carb wet food----Little Friskies Classic Pate, home testing, and Lantus insulin.

What was his glucose 586 at diagnosis. He also had enlarged kidneys/liver/heart, a grade 2 of 6 murmur, a severe kidney infection, he was critically anemic, extremely dehydrated oh and did I mention he was expected to die. Yet with patience and management HE IS STILL HERE SIXTEEN (16) MONTHS LATER.

Why am I telling you this. We need to get your attention. It is doable. Your vet evidently doesn't know which end is up.

I use the very inexpensive Walmart Reilion Confirm meter and it has served us very well.

Your cat did not become diabetic overnight and the diabetes isn't going to be controlled overnight either.

Don't kill him just because he is sick. You can do this for him.

Anita and Squeaker
 
No one can tell you to euthanize or not euthanize. Only you can decide if you love your cat enough to keep trying. But don't decide because you are frustrated. Find another vet who is willing to work WITH you to help your cat first. This is a disease that is best managed at home.

According to a previous post (viewtopic.php?f=28&t=128588) you are looking for help in the north Atlanta area. Maybe there is a member who can help find a diabetes friendly vet in your area. Or to help you learn how to test.
 
We know that human meters read differently from pet meters.
Human meters read about 30-40% lower.
Plus, the FDA allows all home meters to read with +/- 20% of what a lab would get ... even the AlphaTrak.

There are Vet Interview Topics in my signature link.

And you can bring up a list of nearby vets by using
http://Maps.Google.com and searching for
"Veterinarian near address"
Where you fill in your address

Google will list reviews for some of the vets, too.
 
I can give you 3 very good reasons why not to euthanize, they are sitting curled up with on the couch at this very moment. Their names are Maxwell, Autumn and Cassanova.

Maxwell survived hurricane Kathrina only to come down with diabetes and his previous owner's family was going to euthanize rather than deal with him and it when his owner was taken to a nursing home. So I adopted him, 4 years later he is insulin free and has been since 2 weeks after I adopted him. Healthy, happy and one of the best mannered cats you'll ever meet. A true pleasure to add to our family.

Autumn went 10+ months after her previous owner knew she had diabetes just letting the disease run it course. Autumn was close to dead when I adopted her, 2 years later, she is also trying to come off insulin and healthy, happy and someone I would dearly miss cuddling with at night.

Cassanova, previous owner did everything the vet told her to do, and he just kept getting sicker, she didn't test at home, just blindly followed the dose increases made by her vet until he was up to 11u twice a day. I took him in, followed the protocol here and 8 months later he is also insulin free. And a curious, playful and loving addition to our family.

I discuss nothing about their diabetes except when I need to reorder their insulin. Then it really isn't so much of a discussion as it is...I need a new script for Autumn's insulin. She's on Levemir and can you please write that for the Flexpens rather than the vial..That's it. My vet knows they are diabetic, she has figured out that she and I are going to agree to disagree with treatment and that other than script for insulin I really don't need her much when it comes to controlling feline diabetes. And if she wishes to keep making money off my 17 animals then she won't push her style of diabetes management on me or I will find another vet (we've had that talk). Your vet works for you, not the other way around. Now after 4 years of having diabetic cats that she sees of mine in her clinic she has started calling me to ask about helping her other clients with diabetic cats, because she herself has told me "I can't argue with success"

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
It's really not that hard, we've all been in your shoes and yes it feels like the end of the world but it's not. Don't listen to your vet, the only reason you need him/her at this point is to get a good insulin like Lantus. Then do as all of us here have done; switch to a low carb wet food like Fancy Feast or Friskies, test at home, and use a good insulin like Lantus. I too now have a diabetic cat in remission because I followed those three easy steps; Fancy Feast Classics, tested at home, and used Lantus. My vet gave me the insulin and the address to this forum, the wonderful people here are more educated and have more experience than any vet I know treating diabetic cats! You can do it, relax, your kitty deserves to live and you deserve to live with your kitty for many many more years! cat_pet_icon
 
lshaffer said:
I read everything on here and NONE of it goes along with what my vet is saying. NONE...OF...IT! ... Today I got the ReliOn meter and my vet has decided that, since that's not THEIR meter, and they don't know how to deal with a human meter, we're back to hospitalizing him.
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Ive posted a response addressing pet vs. human meter in your other thread. Here's a link to the post:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=128571&p=1324991#p1324991


Somebody talk me out of calling Deceased Pet Care and just putting this poor cat out of his misery (and mine).
Click to expand...

You love him. I know it's tough right now but it does get better. You can do this, and you'll get so much help and support from the people here. Please give it a little time to get the right treatment and veterinary support in place. Things can improve surprisingly quickly. If your vet is a my-way-or-the-highway type, I would strongly recommend trying to finding a more co-operative, open-minded vet. Your vet should be your partner in Long John Silver's treatment.
 
I feel your frustration, as my cat was diagnosed not too long ago. I went to a vet thinking that they should know EVERYTHING there is to know about managing a cat's diabetes along with the other chronic conditions my cat has but I found out the hard way, this was not the case (and I went to 2 separate vets - a feline only and a board certified specialist!). Turns out that as much as they wanted to help and were very well intentioned, they didn't have the 24/7 experience with a diabetic cat that the members have here.

You will have so much support here - it's amazing to see how much people care and will try to help and advise every step of the way. It makes it so much easier to deal with a chronic condition from being formidable, to being very realistic and easy to manage (without feeling alone as well). It can become fun and empowering, especially when you start seeing how skilled and proficient you get w/ the home-testing and insulin injections. :)

Seeing the dramatic change from a lethargic and unhappy/uncontrolled diabetic kitty, to a pouncing, playful cat whipping around the room is so rewarding - it will be worth all the energy and resources you invest (and it gets easier).

You can do it!
 
Okay. Things are very different now. Let me address a few of the responses to my panicked post. First of all, it does NOT help insinuating that I don't love my cat enough to try. That is totally out of line. I'm sorry but it just is. Not only do I love this cat COMPLETELY (you wouldn't believe his feral history) but I'm completely willing to try. The problem is trying is all that was getting done! We needed progress.

Now let me dispell a few assumptions:
1. He IS on low carb food. He's been on DM since he was diagnosed, strongly suggested by the vet. He's also been on Friskies classic pate since I read about it here on the board. I'll tell you this, though, the Friskies food seemed to do A LOT for him. I started having hope that that was all we needed (I was wrong but keep reading).

2. The vet did prescribe Lantus and not some backwoods old-timey stuff. So that's SOMETHING going for her (the vet).

3. I'm not squeamish or skittish when it comes to any of this. I'm already giving him shots for allergies so this shouldn't be that much worse.

I have already taken steps to learn here, major steps, as was keenly observed by some here. I spent the latter part of last week and throughout the weekend on this board, just reading the papers and l-e-a-r-n-i-n-g (forsaking work). And I thank every one of you for going before me and getting this stuff all together. It's been a MAJOR help. I would've just gone along with my vet's old-style protocol for handling this and wondered why we never made any progress. My biggest problem was..the..vet.

Here's what happened on Monday. After gathering as much information as I could here, I went over to Walmart (in the rain and the wind and the diving temps) and bought all the ReliOn stuff. While I was in the car afterward, my vet called and got huffy with me because I bought the ReliOn instead of the Alpha Trak. She went from saying he doesn't have to be hospitalized to saying that, since I bought a monitor that was different from theirs, then he would have to be hospitalized. When I told her what I'd learn (not very well, though, because I was in the car and was distracted), she said, "I deal with feline diabetes every day and I know more than those people online." THAT was when I started melting down. That was also when I made the decision that I needed to find another vet. BTW, I thought BJM's comment about the arrogant vet certainly applied in this situation.

I came home and called several vets, including the specialist clinic where he goes for the allergy stuff. Their vet was out on Mondays and by late in the afternoon no other vet had called me back. I was totally panicking and sick to death of seeing poor Long John just suffering with God knows what BG level. THAT'S when I made this post. I really was contemplating putting him down. And for those of you who think I was not serious about suicide, that was going through my mind as well. I was really in A STATE! And I don't think any of you would disagree with that. Okay, so menopause probably has a good bit to do with it as well.

Well, the next day, Tuesday, one of the vets I called FINALLY called me back (while I was at the human doctor). It was Dr. Ray at The Cat Clinic of Roswell. He knows about this board and the current treatment protocol, understands WHY it's a bad idea to try to get glucose readings from a cat in the clinic, and LOVES the fact that I want to do this at home. He also doesn't care that I have the ReliOn monitor. So you better believe I made a beeline for him yesterday.

We got Long John tested, me trained in testing and him started on insulin. THANK THE LORD FOR DR. RAY! I did a test this morning and gave him insulin on my own, and then tested a couple times this afternoon. The last test this afternoon his BG was within the normal range....and yesterday it was 572 at the vet! This weekend I'll do a curve and either use one of the spreadsheets here or develop my own.

Mel - I'm trying to get to exactly your point, where I only see the vet for new insulin scrips. We're just at the beginning, though, where I need a professional partner. But that's my goal.

Someone wrote, "Seeing...the change...to a pouncing playful cat..." I'll just be happy to see him be the crabby, intolerant cat he's always been!

Thanks to all. We're on the road now!
 
So glad to see things have turned around for you. I hope you have nothing but better days to come! Hugs to you and scritches to Long John. Please continue to post. We all have nothing but the best of intentions to help our little sugar babies get on the right track.
 
lshaffer said:
Well, the next day, Tuesday, one of the vets I called FINALLY called me back (while I was at the human doctor). It was Dr. Ray at The Cat Clinic of Roswell. He knows about this board and the current treatment protocol, understands WHY it's a bad idea to try to get glucose readings from a cat in the clinic, and LOVES the fact that I want to do this at home. He also doesn't care that I have the ReliOn monitor. So you better believe I made a beeline for him yesterday.

We got Long John tested, me trained in testing and him started on insulin. THANK THE LORD FOR DR. RAY! I did a test this morning and gave him insulin on my own, and then tested a couple times this afternoon. The last test this afternoon his BG was within the normal range....and yesterday it was 572 at the vet! This weekend I'll do a curve and either use one of the spreadsheets here or develop my own.

Thanks to all. We're on the road now!
Click to expand...

This is GREAT to hear!

:RAHCAT
 
I'm so pleased that you've found a great new vet. And great that you're home testing, too. When my Saoirse was first diagnosed I didn't get support for home testing from the diagnosing vet. Saoirse was extremely lethargic when first diagnosed and I'll never forget the nightmare of having to give her insulin completely blind, and also with little or no hope of knowing if she was having a hypo because she was so immobile. I was terrified of giving the insulin and terrified of Saoirse's diabetes getting worse. It was a really tough time. We've moved to a veterinary practice nearer our home since then. They advocate home blood testing and are fantastic partners in Saoirse's care. Unlike some vets, their style is consultative, not dictatorial. It made a w-o-r-l-d of difference for both Saoirse and myself. I'm wishing you and Long John Silver a similar, supportive and successful partnership with your new vet.
 
Woohoo and welcome to the Sugar Dance!!! Well in my case that is all I see the vet for and all I have ever seen one for when it comes to feline diabetes but that is because mine were adopted as diabetics I guess, so I didn't go through the whole getting a getting it dxed except with my first one and that was 5 years and many sleepless nights ago (hot flashes not diabetic cats..hehehe)

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Hello!
I think you are awesome! You have been through a wringer or two or -name your number- yet, you crack me up: " the crabby, intolerant cat he's always been!"
 Such kitties strike me as the best! Still waiting for my fair share of them!
Wishing you smoother sailing and good health to you both, Sophie
 
Hi. Just to throw my tuppenceworth in. I was in same boat as you. Stressed out. After six weeks following my vet advice because, like you, I needed professional partnership in this - last night I decided to follow forum only. Six weeks in and me cat was still not stabilised. I think the combined years and years of experience on this board outweighs the vet experience with limited exposure to feline diabetes. It was a struggle to make the decision to back off from the vet and I'm still in testing ground but you can be safe here.
 
:dizcat :dizcat I can't tell you how many times I have changed vets when one "got an attitude" with me. I took Squeaker to the Emergency vet hospital one night and the vet there was livid with me when I told him that my meter was showing a BG in excess of 600. He unloaded on me and said my meter was inaccurate since it was a human meter. He also demanded that I stop home testing. I demanded that they test and call the internist. Their test returned a BG of 602 and the internist told him he knew and approved of home testing.

Point being that sometimes you gotta pull on the gloves and duke it out with them. It can be frustrating but it does pay off. I have finally found a general vet, internist, and cardiologist who know I'm not an idiot and listen to what I say. It was worth the fight.

Anita and Squeaker
 
Okay, I'm going to try this again. I keep posting things and hitting <submit> and they don't show up.

Anyway, thanks to all you guys for your support. I feel so much better now that we've started and I actually can DO something. I'm sleeping much better at night, I can tell you.

I think I've found a vet that I can work with. They're a little farther away and way more expensive but it'll be worth it. Meanwhile, the regular one, just down the road, is fine for the rest of the stuff.

Thanks again, everyone, and I'll be posting stuff now and again.
 
lshaffer said:
Okay, I'm going to try this again. I keep posting things and hitting <submit> and they don't show up.

Anyway, thanks to all you guys for your support. I feel so much better now that we've started and I actually can DO something. I'm sleeping much better at night, I can tell you.

I think I've found a vet that I can work with. They're a little farther away and way more expensive but it'll be worth it. Meanwhile, the regular one, just down the road, is fine for the rest of the stuff.

Thanks again, everyone, and I'll be posting stuff now and again.
Click to expand...

Hi,
Once you're set and you have the supplies you need and have perhaps let the vet do the first curve for you - then your trips to the vet should be minimal. You can do the testing yourself and send your spreadsheet to the vet when they want to see it. It should cut down your costs considerably. I will only take my kitty to the vet if he starts showing symptoms that I cant deal with myself.

You can do this - everyone here will be with you every step of the way. It really does help knowing you can come on this board day or night and find someone on line to help.

Juliet and Silver.
 
lshaffer I say YEAH you are awesome and on the way to a happy Long John tons of prayers and healing green light to both of you ~O) ~O) :RAHCAT :RAHCAT :RAHCAT cat_pet_icon Kath & Trey second time round in remission I hope OTJ no insulin Day 19......Had to stand up to my vet too made her a better choice now!!!
 
that is so GREAT that you found a better vet. and we are all here every day and will give any help that you need. i am so glad you are feeling better. you are going to do a great job with your kitty. flip_cat dancing_cat :RAHCAT dancing_cat flip_cat
 
Awesome news! Glad you are feeling better about things. You're doing great! :)

A lot of people on here talk about the partnership they get with their cat when the cat realizes that the injections are making them better. I hope you have that experience.

I also don't want to *not* totally trust my vet, but it's really hard when they people here gave me advice that conflicted with my former vet and helped Scout go into remission. So I'm taking all advice with a grain of salt and doing what I think is best for my cat.

Lori
 
Lori&Scout said:
I also don't want to *not* totally trust my vet, but it's really hard when they people here gave me advice that conflicted with my former vet and helped Scout go into remission. So I'm taking all advice with a grain of salt and doing what I think is best for my cat.

Lori
Click to expand...

I had the same struggle - I tried it the vet's way for 6 weeks and Silver was bouncing about all over the place with dose changes, super high readings and then dropping like a stone. I tactfully said to my vet this week that I wanted to try a different approach and to give me ten days. Three days later, Silver is perky, playing like a kitten, no more huge bounces and we saw some green numbers yesterday. The vets are great. They are trained professionals. But these guys on here eat, sleep, dream feline diabetes and are living with it every day. The vets have their skills and knowledge but little practical hands on experience. It took a long time but I finally decided to sideline the vet's advice in favor of the Board.

Juliet and Silver
 
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