So angry right now..

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jackiesmom

Member Since 2012
I had a major scare Wednesday

Jack had a full blown hypo seizure. I was able to get his sugar up with some honey and I spoon fed him until he was able to eat.

I am not fond of the vet I chose when I moved him down here. He upped his levemir by 2 units twice a day.

So I decided to play it safe and I cut the new dosage in half while I was at work. He did great.

Today I was home all day and the vet said to do his usual dosage. Jack had another seizure, a mini one and I caught it but still. I rubbed honey on his gums and he ate TWO cans of cat food. He normally only eats a half a can at a time.

I call Banfield to get him in because not happy with the current vet. Jack is brittle. Banfield proceeds to tell me they cant get him in until Friday and then TOLD me, not asked me what time and said that was just for the exam. I would have to bring him back in for the glucose curve I am requesting. I am like you idiot...Theres kind of a sense of urgency...

So I am taking him to the vet I dont like because they can get him right in for a curve.

I dont know what to do. I try testing him and he bites me everytime. And yowls like I am murdering him. I am either doing it wrong or he has sensitive ears.

He has been completely off of dry food for a month. Does this mean if he keeps getting hypo, that hes starting to get regulated?
 
Just because a cat keeps having hypos doesn't mean they are getting regulated. It just means they are getting too much insulin. I've read here that some cats are actually even more sensitive to insulin after a symptomatic hypoglycemic event. If your cat is having seizures, getting proper veterinary care ASAP is important (even if it means your only option today is seeing a vet you don't like).

Home testing is going to be critical to keeping your kitty safe. I had a diabetic cat die of what I am certain was hypoglycemia while being boarded at the vet's office. They weren't testing his blood sugar. If you can't get a blood test via the ear, I would suggest trying the paw. It's not the ideal testing site, but it's the one I used with Jersey. I warmed her paw with a rice sock first, put just a dab of Neosporin ointment on the paw, and then poked. The warm sock and Neosporin helped the blood well up so I could get a sample easily. We tried the ear for quite some time and just couldn't get the hang of it. She was mad, and I was in tears. That's when we moved to the paw. I really believe home testing saved her life, too. If we wouldn't have tested, I wouldn't have known when she was ready for a dose reduction. I would have kept giving her too much insulin. I can't imagine what would have happened then.... nailbite_smile

Anyway, that's my 2 cents' worth. I sincerely hope all goes well! :YMHUG:
Shelly
 
Whenever you are snuggling with him, try rubbing his ears just to get him used to it. give him treats while you rub his ears, etc. maybe eventually he will let you do it.

I don't know much about levemir (shelly is very knowledgeable from what I've seen)! but what I have noticed is the doses are quite small. Upping it by two units seems extreme. If he is going hypo and having seizures, especially more than once, the dose is too high.
 
it was...

I took him in

his BG was 20. He will be staying to get dextrose.

I like the effect of levemir. He does better on it but I knew it was too high.

I am learning to trust my gut with these things.

Doctor started talking about brain tumors and I am like..I know my cat. Hes in perfect health. His BG is too high and it was
 
Home testing is so very, very important. I hope you can find out a way to make it happen.

There's lots of info around here on it. Get a special, awesome, low carb treat and have it be for testing only. Some people have a special testing place. I don't, but maybe I should. Beacause Skunky is starting to get annoyed with it. I need to start treating her more. But I think the best thing for us has been that I play with her ears all the time. Like, all the time! cat(2)_steam
 
Since it sounds like he has hypo'd a couple of times and he was at 20 when at the vet's office.......

I would definitely invest some time in trying to get him used to home testing....I said I would never be able to do it, but I am so glad I do now....it took some time with Skooter for him to get used to it....

Also remember, he can feel your stress, so as hard as it is, you need to remain as calm as possible....try three times and if you cant get a sample, give both of you about 15 minutes to regroup and try again.....

I never thought Skooter would get used to it....

I am not a dosing expert by any means, but I am going to agree that the dose is too high....As Shelley said, after some cats hypo they become very sensitive to insulin...it is possible he may need a much smaller dose and possibly trying to get himself OTJ......

As for different ideas for testing....I also use the neosproain at times....I do a lot of calm talking, telling Skooter what I am doing, if I have to retest etc....it helps me and him remain calm. He didn't much care for the rice sock on his ear, but I heard a lot of cats like it.....

Sending lots of healing vines to your baby and that they can get his BG up quickly
 
Hi Angee,

I'm so glad you got him to the vet - that 20 is scary. I'm hoping that all goes well and there aren't any long-term effects from the hypo episode.

I'm sure that others have already posted links to home testing tips. If they haven't, or if you need the links again, let us know.

Shelly
 
Good thing you got Jack to the vet today. :YMHUG: My Neko is on Levemir, and most people here dose both it and Lantus using the Tight Regulation Protocol. Even changes of .25 unit can make a difference. What dose was Jack on?

Some people have to start testing with kitty wrapped in a towel burrito. Make sure he gets a treat after ever test. Over time, he'll associate testing with treats. It's the best way to keep him safe, and is way cheaper than doing curves at the vet.
 
jack was on 4 units morning and night so eight total


so what do you mean insulin sensitive and hes trying to get himself off the juice
 
so what do you mean insulin sensitive and hes trying to get himself off the juice
Click to expand...

The hypo event is a shock to the kitty's system, and that can cause the cat to process insulin differently afterwards. For instance, let's say that you gave a kitty 2 units of insulin. That dose only brought the kitty down to a low point (nadir) of 200. You then upped the kitty's dose to 3 units, and the kitty ended up having a symptomatic hypoglycemic event. It's possible the kitty might be really sensitive to insulin now. If you went back to 2 units after the event, it's possible that the insulin might bring the kitty down to 30, even though that dose never did so prior to the hypo event.

Really, the only way to know if Jack's going into remission is to test him - either at home or at the vet's office. You won't be able to judge his numbers based only on observation (although observation is important, too). We consider cats in remission when their blood glucose numbers stay in normal range (roughly 50 to 120) for two weeks without insulin.
 
Some kitties, once they've had a symptomatic hypo, need a lot less insulin than they had been getting. As an example, we had a kitty last month getting 3.5 units of Levemir that ended up needing one unit after a hypo took him to the emergency. Going from a high carb dry food diet to a low carb wet food can also make a difference. We had another member whose kitty was getting 5.5 unit of Levemir and when she removed the dry food her other kitties had been getting from the house, he went off insulin in two days. Those were two very exciting and scary days! :shock: It involved a lot of testing and high carb food to keep him safe.
 
Gotcha. Dad did dry food even though I asked him not to because it was easy for him. I went the healthiest route with Jack and immediately took it off it when I moved him here.

I also wonder too. I just adopted a Japanese Bobtail who is nine months old and eats until he pukes because he used to be a stray.

I am wondering if kitty doesnt leave Jack enough food. I have started to feed him in seperate rooms
 
are you saying that Jack could have been hypo and I never realized it and could have become sensitive to insulin in the process?

He was doing ok on this dosage for a while and its only been the past few days I have had this problem

Its scary though..he was 20 and still walking around

I dont want to even think about what he was when he was unconscious and seizing
 
Hi Angee,

A cat's insulin needs can change pretty quickly. For instance, we had Jersey on Lantus for about 2 months. We went up and down in doses during that time. We started at just .25 units, which took her too low, so we reduced her dose to .10 units. That ended up not working, and we eventually had to work our way up to 1 unit before we started working our way back down in doses.

This could have been the perfect dose for Jack up until this week, or it could have been taking him too low on several different occasions. There's no way to know for sure. We definitely know that 4 units AM and 4 units PM is way too much for him after today's episode. That's what you also gave him on Wednesday when he had the first hypo episode, right? (Just making sure I'm not confused.)

Shelly
 
OK

So Jack is spending another night so they can use his insulin and see how he is doing

while the stays don't bother me..They are like 20 bucks a night

How much do you think the ball park price is going to be to have a cat stay two nights and have a glucose drip and fluids for one night?

I hope we're not talking 600-700 bucks here

Jack is worth it and Ill figure it out, I just am living paycheck to paycheck right now
 
Tips for cats that scarf 'n' barf:

Add a bit of water to the canned food to add volume.
Spread food thinly on a wide plate.
Place an upside down heavy bowl or mug in the center of the plate so the cat has to eat around it.
 
They want to run a glucose curve to get a more zoned in dosage

not thrilled because I will hit 400 bucks before its done and over with but I ok ed it

I asked him if this was the last test he was running and he said yes. Told him I was picking Jack up tomorrow regardless. This is SUCH an expensive vet. My vet in Michigan would charge half this well not quite half but much cheaper.



Not thrilled but Id rather have piece of mind while I am at work.

would you find this a necessity?

I will be buying a meter after work and we will try again.
 
I am glad you are getting a meter and trying home testing. It is certainly true that some cats are difficult and do take a long time to get used to the process. But money and anxiety wise, it is worth trying.

If I could suggest, I'd start a slow conditioning process. Pick the place you are planning to test him - maybe on the kitchen counter or top of the dryer, or on a towel on the bed or floor - whatever will work for you. Take him there and just rub his ears, give him lots of praise and a low carb treat he loves and let him go. Do this several times, as many as it takes for him to anticipate it and feel safe. Then make the rice sack or pill bottle filled with very water and add warming his ear. Again, just take him there, warm his ears, lots of praise and a treat and release. After a few time of that, add the lancet and click it - maybe without a lancet in the device until he gets used to the noise. Then finally, a poke. If he will let you poke but wants to leave immediately, get the drop on your fingernail and let him go. But always a treat! Eventually they usually get used to the process and because they know a treat is coming, they put up with it. Some even look forward to it and go to the spot at the right time.

Good luck. Come on and tell us how it is going and ask for advice. Everyone has something that worked for them. For us, it was using a big enough lancet. (The 25-27 gauge seems to work best in the beginning until their ears "learn" to bleed.)
 
jackiesmom said:
btw
4 units drops him to 20
2 units and he is at 400 is what the vet said I guess
Click to expand...

Ah, but that won't always be true, hence the need for home monitoring.

When a cat drops too low, compensatory hormones release stored glucose. This results in higher numbers than expected for up to 3 days. You need to hold the 2 units for that long and wait it out.
 
A lot of us don't let our vets dictate the doses for our cats. At one point mine was upping Cobb's dose a unit at a time. Most people here up the dose by .25u, maybe .5u. If you up the dosage by too much or too quickly, you can miss the optimal dose.

Have you posted in the Lantus forum? A lot of us Lev users post there because many of us have been on Lantus and switched, and it is generally sees more traffic than the Lev forum. Since the two insulins are similar, you'll find people knowledgeable about both of them.

I like Lev a lot. Cobb is doing fantastic on it. (Note: Cobb is a high dose cat.)

I'm glad you're going to get a meter and try home testing. Cobb has never had a hypo event, but he has dropped below 40 a time or two, and I would have never known without my home meter.

Cobb was a PITA when we first started testing him. It initially took two people, a towel, and a lot of patience. But now I can do it by myself in the middle of the night, half asleep. It definitely takes some practice, but you can do it! It really keeps the kitty safe, and you OUT of the emergency vet!

~Suzanne
 
How can I up by .25 when my pen is in one increments?

I am starting to wonder if I even need to spend all this money getting him treated. Sounds like the vet is an idiot.

I am kind of irritated at the whole thing and am starting to question myself

did he need a glucose drip? Did he need to stay three days..Im questioning myself

I feel like some of this I could have done myself.

I am not happy with this vet at all..How is three days at the vet, a glucose drip and a curve cost 400 dollars
 
Personally, no. I don't think the curve was necessary. He was probably bouncing. Vet stress can raise a cat's BG. And they pumped him full of dextrose. The curve wouldn't be reliable, in my opinion.

Regarding the dose, you need regular u100 syringes, not the pen needles. The pens will only increase the dose by 1 unit. If you use a regular syringe, use the pen like a vial and you'll be able to fine tune the dose.
 
Soo..the vet left a message

Jack ran on 300 consistently during the curve. He told me to keep him a 2 units twice a day for two weeks, watch for signs of being high and then up to 3

This doesnt really help me because he was sure that was what needed to be done because the 2 units put him in the 300's but didnt want him to become hypo

So since he wasnt much help what do I do? I am going to do the ease in approach to testing like was suggested so it might be a few days before I do an actual draw.

Do I keep him at 2? Or do 3? I also need to know hes not going to start seizing while I am at work


And who ever said put his blood on my fingernail is hes fidgety and getting ready to bite is a GENIOUS!
 
We use U-100 insulin syringes to withdraw insulin from the pens, and inject with those.
You take the cap and needle off the pen, and insert the syringe into the center end of the pen.

Get U-100, 3/10 mL (cc), 30 or 31 gauge needle with half unit marks. In some states, yu'll need a prescription. We eyeball 0.25 unit increments when the dose isn't on a half unit increment.
 
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